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Off-White

au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Off-White
Reply #30 on: November 19, 2022, 03:21:52 AM
Sorry chaps  TL:DR    :twak: 

But glad I got that off my chest   ;)     :D

Aha - New page - Please page back for my rant commentary!    ;)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2022, 05:17:21 AM by Huntsman »


us Offline 264

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Re: Off-White
Reply #31 on: November 19, 2022, 03:38:12 AM
 :facepalm:This product is absolute clown work. I would be humiliated if I was incharge of the designing of this knife.  The black and white color scheme reminds me of piebald cows. I certainly hope you did not pay the designer top dollar because this knife belongs in the clearance section. I have had great respect for Victorinox. Somebody just made a big mistake.


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Off-White
Reply #32 on: November 19, 2022, 03:39:14 AM
I believe the 3000 pcs of this art SAK will sell out.  Who knows if it'll be double or triple in price over time  :dunno:.  Its certainly interesting if nothing else.     

I carry an old Wenger Security 14 because I love the size.  I don't hold my breath that Vic wants to listen to anyone.  They have all the answers as they've survived over 100 years  ;).  I guess I'm also lucky in that I have a couple 84mm Vics with scissors if I ever decide to mod a Cadet.   

 
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us Offline 264

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Re: Off-White
Reply #33 on: November 19, 2022, 04:54:19 AM
Aloha I think you are correct people will buy the knife and it will go up in price. I am probably a bit naive thinking Victorinox would care or listen to my opinion. Peace.


sd Offline Andetto

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Re: Off-White
Reply #34 on: November 19, 2022, 06:11:54 AM
Hi

The first moment I saw this, it was a shock. After giving it more thought, I guess this must not be considered a concept design or an intention from Victorinox to change how they make their knife parts. It should only be thought of as an 'Art piece'.
It is the same way I look at the Giant model, a tool that was not meant to be used.
We have all seen fashion designs that could not be used in practical life.
Also, if we trust the "SAK gods up there", and the fact that they have survived for a while, I guess they have given this a lot of thought before actually making it.
The 3000 piece will be sold and their prices will be high among collectors and art lovers, years from now.
Personally I won't buy it, but having the capacity, I would buy some, just for future investment.

Just an opinion.

Cheers
Regards
Andetto


hr Offline enki_ck

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Re: Off-White
Reply #35 on: November 19, 2022, 08:02:54 AM
Well it's simple math.

They'll sell them, that's for sure. For 1.5 million bucks in total :ahhh Enough for them to make a hefty profit. People will talk about it, it will get media exposure. And then we'll forget about it and only remeber it when something new and crazy pops up. Just like with the horse shue knife.


us Offline Farmer X

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Re: Off-White
Reply #36 on: November 19, 2022, 08:24:09 AM
Reminds me of something Gunnery Sergeant Hartmann said to Private Pyle: "yer so ugly you could be a modern art masterpiece." The reviews of it are hilarious, too. At least the 1897 replica looked good.

Nothing more than a shameful money grab, this...thing.
USN 2000-2006

One to four layers of SAK is (usually) best for me.

If you have absolutely nothing better to do, my YouTube channel is awlways an option:

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCWA0VjH6v3WS6gvLkPGk9KA/


gb Offline Rizio Il Ghiro

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Re: Off-White
Reply #37 on: November 19, 2022, 09:23:23 AM
I must confess I was baffled when I saw it, I too found the blurb unintelligible (I speak several languages, but not this one clearly!) and I wonder if there are really 3,000 customers out there for this…. Ah well, as P.T.Barnum is alleged to have said “no-one every lost money by underestimating the taste of the general public” when defending his freak shows! I’m surprised it wasn’t at the London Flagship Store opening on Thursday, but as I’ve said elsewhere I found my visit a little underwhelming - they didn’t have 3 out of the 4 knives I was hoping to find despite them being on display!  :facepalm:


us Offline Farmer X

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Re: Off-White
Reply #38 on: November 19, 2022, 10:10:02 AM
I too found the blurb unintelligible (I speak several languages, but not this one clearly!)
I went back and read that marketing hyperbole again. Much of it was incomprehensible gibberish, but they did make mention of "the Victorinox aptitude for adventure and flawless functionality." Maybe it is, but if so, I fail to see it.

Before typing out this reply, I visited the Web sites for my three favorite "general" knife retailers. Two of them still have the 1897 Replica in stock. Both models required at least some entirely new tooling, which represents a huge expense. As I see it, R&D money would have been better spent on new tools or new steels. (The latter could help bring in a new customer base, too.) And they could probably cram scissors in 84mm frames again and see huge profits with little (if any) expense.

Granted, I'm not the target market for either, but I have to wonder if Victorinox will be alienating large portions their typical/traditional customer base in the long run if they continue down this course.
USN 2000-2006

One to four layers of SAK is (usually) best for me.

If you have absolutely nothing better to do, my YouTube channel is awlways an option:

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCWA0VjH6v3WS6gvLkPGk9KA/


us Offline Fireman

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Re: Off-White
Reply #39 on: November 19, 2022, 01:45:47 PM
I have tried (really tried) to read and re-read the page on the Victorinox website about this 'item' and I know I'm not the most highly educated, but I don't understand...

Takes me back to all the management speak I had to endure at work. Maybe someone put it in their ideas microwave but only on defrost, not full power...

I don't know what's so hard to understand about the following:

Quote
On-point in its aesthetic DNA, yet functionally flawless, the idea at its core evolves around “Adam and Eve, Androgyny, The Beginning” and – based on that – around constructing multi-dimensional safe zones for human survival with garments, tools, and spaces.

Kidding.  :rofl:  This "sentence" is utter nonsense, but it's typical of a lot of advertising copy these days. 


gb Offline SurgeUk

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Re: Off-White
Reply #40 on: November 19, 2022, 02:50:02 PM
I must confess I was baffled when I saw it, I too found the blurb unintelligible (I speak several languages, but not this one clearly!) and I wonder if there are really 3,000 customers out there for this…. Ah well, as P.T.Barnum is alleged to have said “no-one every lost money by underestimating the taste of the general public” when defending his freak shows! I’m surprised it wasn’t at the London Flagship Store opening on Thursday, but as I’ve said elsewhere I found my visit a little underwhelming - they didn’t have 3 out of the 4 knives I was hoping to find despite them being on display!  :facepalm:

I went to the store yesterday and it was in the window display and upstairs in the knife showroom. However, there was no price displayed on either - too ashamed  :-[  :dunno: (It's bl**dy awful  :rofl:)

I must say that my experience was unrushed (staff didn't hassle me) which is good. That said, when I did speak to staff, they didn't appear too knowledgable (especially if you talk about Alox  :whistle:)

I'll be returning to collect a personalised Wine Master* (as a gift for a friend) either tomorrow or Wednesday so I'll report back on that experience  :tu:
*That was a painful phone conversation (hence Sunday or Wednesday)  :facepalm:
They don't like it up 'em!


us Offline 264

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Re: Off-White
Reply #41 on: November 19, 2022, 05:15:55 PM
Maybe the new design is targeted to intellectuals that have lost the ability to use their hands and can only think great thoughts and have too much money.


au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Off-White
Reply #42 on: November 19, 2022, 10:34:41 PM
^^^ Eureka - that must be it  !!    ;)


us Offline Myron

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Re: Off-White
Reply #43 on: November 20, 2022, 01:57:10 AM
Not my cup o' tea either.  But I do look forward to learning more about it if any MTO members pick one up. 

Different strokes for different SAK folks, i guess. 



Offline Helvetica Bold

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Re: Off-White
Reply #44 on: November 20, 2022, 09:43:19 AM
I went back and read that marketing hyperbole again. Much of it was incomprehensible gibberish, but they did make mention of "the Victorinox aptitude for adventure and flawless functionality." Maybe it is, but if so, I fail to see it.

Before typing out this reply, I visited the Web sites for my three favorite "general" knife retailers. Two of them still have the 1897 Replica in stock. Both models required at least some entirely new tooling, which represents a huge expense. As I see it, R&D money would have been better spent on new tools or new steels. (The latter could help bring in a new customer base, too.) And they could probably cram scissors in 84mm frames again and see huge profits with little (if any) expense.

Granted, I'm not the target market for either, but I have to wonder if Victorinox will be alienating large portions their typical/traditional customer base in the long run if they continue down this course.

I agree they risk doing that unless they spend some time and dev money on the core products again. Totally get the 1897 Replica and why they would do that but this one and the increasingly ludicrously priced classics can’t be a sustainable market surely!

All the iconic models are built on practicality, functionality and sensible pricing model…you can get champ on Amazon UK for under £60 from some outlets most of the time which is ludicrously good value in my book. I’d keep buying with investment in new steel or incrementally useful tools. I have trouble imagining I’d need more than what is in Champ already but agree that things like in line awl (I’ve modded these into a 91mm already so it’s not that hard!  :pok:) would be great additions to other models. Imagine an 84mm alox cadet X with inline awl (pioneer x small) awlsome!!  :rofl:
« Last Edit: November 20, 2022, 11:04:55 AM by Helvetica Bold »


Offline MikeJay

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Re: Off-White
Reply #45 on: November 20, 2022, 05:40:08 PM
The mountain-like tooling completely missed a great opportunity to honor the Swiss Alps. THAT would have been worthwhile for us fans. But SAK users are clearly not the intended target group. Counter intuitively, it makes me want to buy this ridiculous thing for resale value because it enflames emotions regarding it - which is indeed art by today's standards. It's stupid. I hate it. We're talking about it. Mission accomplished???


us Offline Intorikata

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Re: Off-White
Reply #46 on: November 20, 2022, 10:28:29 PM
I said this on the Reddit Vic sub - y'all need to relax. I don't like it, you don't like it, but it's a partnership with a designer. It happened before, it'll happen again.

What it isn't is a New Mission Statement from Victorinox. This...thingy isn't why you're not getting 84mm scissors. Relax, take a deep breath, and enjoy your SAKs.


Offline Helvetica Bold

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Re: Off-White
Reply #47 on: November 21, 2022, 12:18:22 PM
I said this on the Reddit Vic sub - y'all need to relax. I don't like it, you don't like it, but it's a partnership with a designer. It happened before, it'll happen again.

What it isn't is a New Mission Statement from Victorinox. This...thingy isn't why you're not getting 84mm scissors. Relax, take a deep breath, and enjoy your SAKs.

Be a dull forum if we all relax too much  :rofl: but I get where you are coming from…


Offline Helvetica Bold

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Re: Off-White
Reply #48 on: November 21, 2022, 12:19:23 PM
The mountain-like tooling completely missed a great opportunity to honor the Swiss Alps. THAT would have been worthwhile for us fans. But SAK users are clearly not the intended target group. Counter intuitively, it makes me want to buy this ridiculous thing for resale value because it enflames emotions regarding it - which is indeed art by today's standards. It's stupid. I hate it. We're talking about it. Mission accomplished???
I liked it much more when I thought it was mountains and before reading the full blurb…


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Off-White
Reply #49 on: November 21, 2022, 03:57:43 PM
Be a dull forum if we all relax too much  :rofl: but I get where you are coming from…

 :iagree:

I also agree its not why 84mm scissors wont be seen again  :tu:.  Its certainly interesting.  I do wonder how the "art" community feels?  Could it be followers of the artist will buy simply because its his design?   


 
Esse Quam Videri


us Offline 264

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Re: Off-White
Reply #50 on: November 21, 2022, 04:28:23 PM
I think I overreacted a bit concerning this knife. I am not saying I like it now. I would rather Victorinox stay in business selling stuff like this instead of going out of business.  I just think they are missing a great opportunity not servicing the mod community. I understand why some people would like to buy SAK produced with different steel. Having customised scales and tool sets. 


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Off-White
Reply #51 on: November 21, 2022, 04:47:03 PM
We are a site of enthusiasts so any and all reactions are valid IMO.  Its why Victorinox is still in business ( yeah I realize we are not the target market in most cases ).  Many await the release of next colored Alox then we gripe if it wasn't tangerine in color  :D.  Its what we do.  I don't think anyone really lost sleep or missed a meal because they were so upset.  The reactions are all part of this hobby. 

I for one enjoy reading folks initial responses.  Let those who will take it in stride do so and those who will fly to Vic headquarters with protest signs do so.   ;)

Esse Quam Videri


us Offline DavZell

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Re: Off-White
Reply #52 on: November 21, 2022, 08:04:17 PM
I love it, I hate it, I won’t be buying it but I will admire it from afar. I’ll just piggyback the comments about all the extensive retooling for a one off model when that could have gone into tool development and evolution for the more frequent users. There have been some whispers about new tools on production models so if they appear that will soften the blow somewhat of course.

This could be a first or a test run for equipment that can machine a greater variety of tools and customizations.  Except 84mm scissors.
My Mods: 58mm Workshop, 91mm Picnicker, CyberCompact

Some Fav's: 74mm's in general, Salesman, Pocket Tool Chest, MiniChamp, CyberTool 34/M, Compact
Likely to pick up soon:  Cheese Master, something with a pruner blade
Always keeping an eye out:  stainless with guilloche, interesting inlay logos
If I had a few extra hundred $:  91mm with long file, Wine Master


us Offline Myron

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Re: Off-White
Reply #53 on: November 22, 2022, 04:49:19 AM
I don't buy Victorinox's cologne or luggage, and I didn't buy their clothing when they made it.  This product isn't made for readers of this forum, either, and that's ok. 


ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: Off-White
Reply #54 on: November 22, 2022, 08:24:12 AM
What was that weird square classic variant that was a partnership with some designer?
I know a lot of people did not like the Tomo – But to me this was another great initiative – A totally new take on a classic ( :rofl:) design. The one mistake they made, given this model is mainly for grooming was not including the T&T.   :twak:  I am sure Mr. Yamaguchi-san did not want his lovely straight lines messed up. However, T&T in matching colours* to the scales would have made this a very appealing model and bumped up the sales –
* Something Vic did manage to do – But 10 years too late!!   :o 

Not to mention, the Tomo was also a decent platform for companies to print their logos on. Among architects it was quite the hit.
From what I hear it failed mostly because it was not instantly recognizable as a SAK. Imagine you gift your customer a Tomo and they think it is a cheap import.
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining.


ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: Off-White
Reply #55 on: November 22, 2022, 08:24:50 AM
With all tools closed it resembles a little bit the skyline of some Swiss mountains. The sad thing is, that it wasn't supposed to be.
However, if we look at this knife as some work of art, it makes sense. Probably it's an artistic experssion of something nobody understands. That's also why Vic's description of the knife is so fuzzy. I guess the description was made by a high ranking manager after smoking some synthetic chemicals.
If you want that, you can buy a panorama-knife. Not that I recommend that, they are pretty bad to use but for the shelf, they work.
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining.


ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: Off-White
Reply #56 on: November 22, 2022, 08:53:10 AM
I don't buy Victorinox's cologne or luggage, and I didn't buy their clothing when they made it.  This product isn't made for readers of this forum, either, and that's ok.
I agree with the general sentiment. However :P

Lugage / perfume came along after 9/11. A way to broaden the product range to be less prone to loose all business overnight. I think that was a good decision that had a positive impact on the company.
Limited edition pieces I can get behind as well. A quick way to make more money in a fairly limited market. After all, profit is what businesses exist for.
I think no-one here opposes that Victorinox broadens its product line beyond tools because at the end of the day, that helps keep the business afloat, even in a crisis.

This is however feels little bit different. This required a lot of changes in production to come about. What again was the last change/update Vic gave us (was something after the Marlin Spike in the 111mm line-up? Well, maybe we can count the Swisstool clip with it's poor screws). In that it signifies investments/development towards collectors and not users (this is also the 2nd very expensive limited edition that required a lot of R&D this year). And to make it worse Victorinox writes smurf like this "On-point in its aesthetic DNA, yet functionally flawless". I'm very into Design (fascinating topic on all levels. For me it is of course mostly web-design) and it always bothers me when function gets compromised for looks. This feels a lot like all of those useless one-piece-tools that look like an animal and that, coming from Victorinox, hurts.
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining.


00 Offline NeleDo

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Re: Off-White
Reply #57 on: November 22, 2022, 01:50:31 PM
Whether you like it or not, there's one thing we all have to admit: They managed to make the least ergonomic SAK of all times... I know it's made as a very expensive decoration and not meant to be used but it's still a SAK (according to the definition)... IMHO they could have made a perfume shaped that way, it would've been much better for all....


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Off-White
Reply #58 on: November 24, 2022, 02:00:46 PM
Dear Victorinox, just because you can, doesn't mean you should...



 :whistle:
________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT



au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Off-White
Reply #59 on: November 24, 2022, 02:19:52 PM
Question is do we put it into the Wiki?   ???    :think:

I really don't want to - But I suppose we should as we need to create an accurate database and chronicle
We could hide it there as a variation of the Camper and just have a hyperink to a photo!??      >:D

It will be hard to be objective in that update!!    :o    ;)


 

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