Some free advice to Victorinox.

[264]

I have been a fan of Victorinox knives my entire adult life. I think their products are very well suited for E.D.C. However I think they could benefit from some suggestions to stay profitable and relevant in the future.
Consumer preferences have changed considerably in the past few years. Have you noticed all the flipper style knives with modern steel for sale? Have you noticed many new consumers are not impressed with your QC regarding finish and appearance? And do not forget that consumers really like buying custom products made from Victorinox products from other businesses.
1) Find a way to make your red cellidor scales more scratch resistant or at least have fewer scratches on them when new.
2) Polish the aluminum liner edges to give your product a higher quality look.
3) Increase the shine on your tools or at least make the level of polish more consistent.  New consumers will be impressed.
4) Stop thinking you have created every knife variation ever needed to cover all uses. Tell your engineers to sit down and create a platform for your 58mm/91mm models so consumers can order products with just the tools and scales types they want. Sell premium scales made out of fancy metal that consumers can purchase from Victorinox and install themselves with screws. 
5) Swiss quality and innovation sells your products. Then use that talent to fix the 84mm scissor machine and start selling 84mm climber models.
6) Now regarding those flipper style knives that are outselling your products. Create a line of flippers that make all others pale in comparison. Yes, use some different steel. Make them open easily and lock when open as a choice. Have a good New Year.

[Andrew]

Aluminium is not shiny thanks to the anodization that makes it safer and rust resistant. You can find non anodized liners in the old Econoline.

[CarbideCruzer]

Considering the influx of individuals selling scales elsewhere, if I were the CEO of Victorinox or the investor; I'd be wanting to be in that market for selling scales as well.  Including selling screws, pocket clips, retractable pen slides for the 58mm units etc. 

Being in business for 126 years is quite impressive, however either companies adapt or they will fall behind. 

[Farmer X]

Many of us have our frustrations with Victorinox (I know mine are well-documented). I've not heard a few of those mentioned in the original post. And I'd like to dissent on some...

Victorinox blades and tools are polished to just the right level, in my opinion. You can have too much of a good thing! New(ish) Case knives with stainless steel blades are so highly polished that they show fingerprints quite badly unless one uses a knife pick to open them. Too much polishing, to my way of thinking, is placing form over function.

And Victorinox is wise to not enter the flipper market. That market is saturated as it is, and I'd venture a guess that many people in that market (I'm not among them) probably wouldn't consider a Victorinox product. Quite frankly, there is better use of their time, money, and engineering talent...especially when they couldn't (at least initially) be priced competitively against offerings from companies like Civivi and QSP.

I doubt they would turn much profit on custom products. That's where an aftermarket comes in.

I do agree on increasing the standard scales' scratch resistance and incorporating modern steels, though.

[stuntzombie]

I don't think we need yet another company making knives that open with a flipper. I think Victorinox is doing just fine making useful tools rather than toys for people to play with while they're bored watching TV.

Incorporating modern steels and different scale materials would likely raise the cost to the point where they wouldn't be able to move enough product to make it profitable, and really that's one of the reasons why they do things the way they do. Their current steel selection allows everything to be stamped out, which is much faster, and requires a minimal amount of finishing compared to materials that have to be cut out by laser or water jets.

[marlowe221]

Wait… Do flipper knives actually outsell Victorinox?

I mean, maybe if you take all of them combined but any one company that makes flipper knives versus Victorinox? I think some citation may be needed on that one.

In fact, I would be surprised if any pocket knife manufacturer makes a model that sells better than the Classic SD, Spartan, Tinker, or Huntsman.

[Max Stone]

I have a little story about another brand that makes multitools. A few years ago, they spent several millions $ researching how they believed people wanted to see their products evolve, put a lot of effort into the R&D on some new tech, and launched their new multitool to much fanfare, even with a new colored sheath. I, along with many others on this forum, bought one of their new products only to be underwhelmed. Turns out the vast majority of users were still happy with the original design that had gone largely unchanged for the past 25 years, and remains the first product listed on their extensive range of multi-tools on their website.

Victorinox is notoriously conservative, but are always practical in reviewing market demands. Using cellidor keeps the price down, is stable in color over time, and is easy to stamp and print onto for different designs and marketing logos. Victorinox does use more robust plastics such as nylon and polyamide for better mechanical abrasion resistance, but these lack the classic feel and finish of cellidor. It's worth noting that cellidor scales that have a printed logo or design are treated with an additional protective coating, so these models will offer more scratch resistance compared to bare cellidor. Look for the printed Victorinox logos, such as the Ranger with the Camping logo, or the Polispectral.

The stamped aluminum liners are a little rough, and I agree these could be improved - but again this would be anther manufacturing step that would add cost. Even the expensive LE models suffer this issue. I make a point of polishing the edges of any SAK I rebuild and it does look better.

I've never had an issue with the level of polish on a Victorinox SAK, and in many respects I believe that Victorinox are ahead of many brands out there that mass produce pocket knives or multitools.

Victorinox already has a healthy custom products division (Victorinox Corporate Gifts), but this is B2B and not available to individuals wanting a custom SAK. Unfortunately for SAK enthusiasts, Victorinox does not appear to believe that there is sufficient demand to offer a customization service to the public. You might get a degree of personalization to add text or patterns (such as what some other brands offer), but don't expect different materials or tool layout options.

Do you really believe the story about the 84mm scissors machine? If Victorinox wanted to produce the small Climber again, they would certainly have the resources to do so, including commissioning the tooling. I guess they sell enough 91mm Climbers that they don't see the need, and they're making embarrassing profits on the 58mm Classic line with scissors - so why compete with a new model that will be less profitable? No one can compete with Vic scissors, so they are their own competitor in this space.

Flippers? Far to crude for Victorinox. They only did OHO to secure some government contracts and what they carried over from Wenger.

Now an OTF with the release on the Victorinox logo would be fun :-)

[Tasky]

A stack of advice to benefit a handful of enthusiasts.
The vast majority of consumers won't even care enough to post opinions on the internet. They certainly won't be debating things like level of liner-edge polish or steel types used.

SAKs are not pretty custom collector or gimmicky enthusiast pieces. They're tools, meant to be used.

[mashguy4077]

My advice for Victorinox is to make a pliers based keychain tool like the Leatherman PS4.

 It would sell like hot cakes!

And yes I know Victorinox already makes a bunch Of keychain knives, but none pliers based like The Leatherman PS4.

I know I would buy at least 3.

[smiller43147]

A stack of advice to benefit a handful of enthusiasts.
The vast majority of consumers won't even care enough to post opinions on the internet. They certainly won't be debating things like level of liner-edge polish or steel types used.

SAKs are not pretty custom collector or gimmicky enthusiast pieces. They're tools, meant to be used.

They are actually all of those things to different people, and more.

[smiller43147]

My advice for Victorinox is to make a pliers based keychain tool like the Leatherman PS4.

 It would sell like hot cakes!

And yes I know Victorinox already makes a bunch Of keychain knives, but none pliers based like The Leatherman PS4.

I know I would buy at least 3.

Or something Juice sized.  Would love to swap out my Pioneer X with a Juice sized Spirit.

[Tasky]

They are actually all of those things to different people, and more.

They are those things to less than 1% of their customer base. The vast majority are not enthusiasts, collectors or even basic geeks.
For every one person that reckons they know what the company should do//make in order to stay culturally relevant and not go bust, there are a million others that are happy with what the company are already doing... and even if you just assume that the enthusiasts' are the only opinions that matter, if you ask 100 enthusiasts what the company should do, you'll still get 150 totally different answers.

This is true of not just knives but all things. I got it from a graphics card enthusiast forum, but have seen it on similar places for cars, computer cases, kids toys, architecture, medical equipment and all sorts.

[Explorer]

I’m a fan of them because of their quirks- to me they are as unique as Willy Wonka‘s chocolate factory.

Sure it’s annoying that the 84 mm scissor machine is broken and has been for sometime however doesn’t this give us something to look forward to?     

[264]

According to Zippia Victorinox made a profit of 14 miillion in 2021. This is a modest amount and only from one source.  https://www.zippia.com/victorinox-swiss-army-careers-226977/revenue/ Now regarding my comments regarding finish. Over the last few years I have seen so many people under 30 post complaints about the finish of the scales, liners, and even sometimes the actual tools on social media. So perhaps Victorinox could think of something to do to make these consumers have a better first impression of the product.  Now regarding flipper type knives. I myself have no use for them however I live in the United States and for whatever reason these weapons have a very large following. I am not saying Victorinox should prostitute themselves and flood the market with these things but perhaps design a few that have more utility than just stabbing people. Maybe something mountain climbers can easily open and cut rope in an emergency. I myself find climbing up stairs hard enough at my age. I think the name of some of the models do not necessarily convey the actual use of the model for instance the "Climber". I  have always viewed the name as something one could aspire to own rather than it is perfect for mountain climbers. But it is just my humble opinion. Now regarding customization of Victorinox knives. Now why should Victorinox not get on the bandwagon of making a profit from customizing? My dislike of the situation is that weapon type knives are so popular and I can not see how this is not hurting Victorinox's bottom line. What I like is that Vic's are useful tools that are well designed and last a long time.

[mzil]

6) Now regarding those flipper style knives that are outselling your products. Create a line of flippers that make all others pale in comparison. Yes, use some different steel. Make them open easily and lock when open as a choice.

Here's my homemade mockup/prototype in action, proving they COULD do it if they wanted:

[Jump to 5m35s into my video if my link doesn't do that automatically for you.]

[PitCarver]

Wanting a custom Victorinox?
Last time I checked the Victorinox website they still had some of their "Off White" knives available.  I'm quite sure that if they all sold that Victorinox would take notice.

As it is they're selling the regular line just fine.

[Tasky]

My dislike of the situation is that weapon type knives are so popular and I can not see how this is not hurting Victorinox's bottom line. 

Forgetting about what America does for one second - The rest of the world is increasingly banning various weapon-type knives. Meanwhile, the little red Swiss Army knife is so immediately recognisible and so widely regarded as non-threatening, that it's the one knife you can still carry almost everywhere. Depending on source, Vic sell between 10 million and 25 million of these per year.

THAT is how it's not hurting their bottom line.

I wonder how many of these young, all-knowing Farcebook people also complain about the dirt cheap Opinels, since they've basically been making the same single knife since about 1890 and are also still healthily in business.....

[marlowe221]

Personally, I’ve never understood the purpose of the oversized “flipper” knives you see so many of these days. I mean, beyond the obvious commercial purpose the companies who make them have discovered - ie, selling them to people who think they are going to cut through God knows what with them.

I mean, people should spend their money however they like, different strokes and all that. But I’ve never seen the point in owning a modern “flipper”. SAKs and other traditional pocket knives all the way for me.

[Enginears]

Personally, I’ve never understood the purpose of the oversized “flipper” knives you see so many of these days. I mean, beyond the obvious commercial purpose the companies who make them have discovered - ie, selling them to people who think they are going to cut through God knows what with them.

I mean, people should spend their money however they like, different strokes and all that. But I’ve never seen the point in owning a modern “flipper”. SAKs and other traditional pocket knives all the way for me.

I am of the same mind on this. The modern flippers with thicker and deeper blades than a Mora Companion HD make no sense, and weigh in relatively heavy and bulky for little to no advantage.

Overall I am not excited about Victorinox’ latest innovations, but I recognize I am not really their primary target audience either.  I get the feeling they are comfortably ahead of other similar multitool producers, despite their lack of bringing back the 84mm scissors or polishing their liner edges.

[GrouchoM]

While the thought of a cute little flipper blade on the classic SD would be marketable, maybe, I think if Victorinox wants to create a big buzz they need to bring back Macgyver!  How about allowing contestants on Naked and Afraid carry a Swiss Army knife?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[nate j]

But I’ve never seen the point in owning a modern “flipper”. SAKs and other traditional pocket knives all the way for me.

I’m also a big fan of SAKs and trads, but I do enjoy my flippers, for the following reasons:

- Draw, open, cut, close, and return to pocket quickly and with only one free hand

- Unrivaled fidget toys

- Saves wear and tear on the thumbnails

[dks]

 


There is no reason for many knives we have, or other things too, but we just like them.

[gadgetman7]

I use and carry both SAKs and flippers. If you work as a first responder, in many trade jobs or hiking and camping, larger folders that are easy open are very handy and versatile. I love both. They are not simply weapons and that’s a completely invalid assumption of intent.

However, Victorinox already produces  a knife with a single blade and one hand opening and I suspect it sells pretty well but this isn’t their forte. Further, as alluded to in another post, outside of the US and a few other markets, those knives tend to be restricted and therefore they won’t sell as well.

I do agree that they could use a “better” steel but it would likely only be on limited run or premium line. The additional grinding and finishing would significantly add to the cost and probably wouldn’t pay for itself any time soon.

Customized tool sets and scales are another matter. Given current automation, they could set up a customization page that would allow for different tool selections for a modest fee. Adding G10 or micarta scales as an option on the Victorinox site makes sense as well.

Fit and finish is fine for me but I agree the liners should be more polished and perhaps brass liners could be used on their premium editions.

The last two are possible additions if their is enough demand for them but it will likely take Victorinox a while to incorporate them. Look how long it took for them to add a one hand opening feature to the Spirit.

[Buzzbait]

Meh. I’ve lived the world of flippers, autos, crazy lock designs, super steel blades, and all of that jazz. I eventually started carrying what I actually needed to carry, a Vic SAK. It does the job for me better than the gimmick cutlery.

All that other stuff seems to be a pretty small market, in comparison to world wide knife sales and usage. There are lots of companies producing flippers and exotic steel blades knives. Do we actually need yet another? And if we truly need a flipper Swiss Army knife with some powdered steel and a magic locking system, one of those companies is welcome to produce it, and see if the sales warrant the cost of setup and manufacture,

But valid points on cellidor scales and 84mm scissors. We could definitely use a more durable and environmentally friendly alternative to cellidor.

As far as fit and finish goes, I’m fine with what Victorinox is currently producing, I’d go as far as to say that Victorinox is far ahead of any other company out there, producing slipjoint knives. And if they were to spend more time and equipment to make their knives with a higher level of finish, would it justify a higher cost per knife, and place Victorinox in a more advantageous financial position? No way.

[GearedForwards]

Victorinox exists, and thrives, in it's own space where other companies are compared to them, not the other way round.

If Vic were to try and branch into dedicated modern folders, especially flippers, they would be torn apart. They have zero experience with that kind of knife design or the tolerances needed to make them work well. Creating a modern folder in Switzerland would also price those knives above their actual value, making the criticism justifiably more harsh.

The could use some innovation/modernisation, but copying entirely different category of product whole cloth is not it.

The Swisstools getting clips and OHO are a step in the right direction.

[hsherzfeld]

1. Rather than making the scales more scratch resistant, I’d rather see them return to solid scales rather than hollow ones, for the sake of actual durability as opposed to superficial scratch resistance.
2. Polishing the liner edges would only provide more surfaces to collect scratches (see your first complaint).
3. The tools are already very well polished (enough to display fingerprints out of the box), so what are you asking for? A mirror finish? Plus, see previous comment about polishing and collecting scratches.
4.  Victorinox just needs to switch from peened pins to screws to allow users to disassemble their own knives. The parts for each knife size are interchangeable already.
5. I agree 110%.
6. I don’t want Victorinox to start a line of flipper knives, because it would almost certainly be at the expense of retiring other knives. They’ve already retired too many models. I’d rather see them resurrect the 74mm line than introduce a line of flippers.

[marlowe221]

...

But valid points on cellidor scales and 84mm scissors. We could definitely use a more durable and environmentally friendly alternative to cellidor.
...

I may be way off here... but isn't part of the reason that Victorinox uses the plastic that it does for the scales is that it is plant-based and not made with petroleum or its by-products? At least that's what I understood, though I will readily admit that I might be totally wrong about that. 

1. Rather than making the scales more scratch resistant, I’d rather see them return to solid scales rather than hollow ones, for the sake of actual durability as opposed to superficial scratch resistance.
2. Polishing the liner edges would only provide more surfaces to collect scratches (see your first complaint).
3. The tools are already very well polished (enough to display fingerprints out of the box), so what are you asking for? A mirror finish? Plus, see previous comment about polishing and collecting scratches.
4.  Victorinox just needs to switch from peened pins to screws to allow users to disassemble their own knives. The parts for each knife size are interchangeable already.
5. I agree 110%.
6. I don’t want Victorinox to start a line of flipper knives, because it would almost certainly be at the expense of retiring other knives. They’ve already retired too many models. I’d rather see them resurrect the 74mm line than introduce a line of flippers.

This is a set of suggestions I 100% agree with. It's also a set of suggestions that appears to be more in line with the successful business Victorinox already has.

[Enginears]

I may be way off here... but isn't part of the reason that Victorinox uses the plastic that it does for the scales is that it is plant-based and not made with petroleum or its by-products? At least that's what I understood, though I will readily admit that I might be totally wrong about that. 

On the site this is cellidors description, “Cellidor is an organic, thermoplastic cellulose ester that incorporates a high proportion of the renewable natural material cellulose. Unlike traditional plastics, it is only partially dependent on fossil fuels”

It is unclear to what degree it depends on fossil fuels, possibly just the production. But it sounds like they could call it a cellulose based bioplastic.

[Aloha]

Many want Victorinox to do things they simply wont, me included.  They are the best and only one doing what they do and very well.  Well before 9/11 the had already branched out and were very profitable.  I read somewhere as a percentage their other products like travel gear, watches, kitchen knives, etc are the bulk of their sales.  Will we ever really have the facts?   

9/11 happens and they take a hit to knife sales of up to 40%.  I've read less of a hit actually happened.  Regardless its a big hit to knife sales.  They survived because they had other revenue streams and loads of cash on hand.  If they lost up to 40% revenue overall, they'd be in big trouble to say the least. 

They do what works to be profitable.  This is why they are strong company.  They are making wonderful profits by selling LE color Alox, corporate sales, and focusing on what sells.  Following trends is not something the leader does and they are the leader. 

I'd love to see 84mm models with scissors.  Alox in 84mm.  Its just not going to happen.     

 

[Farmer X]

They are not simply weapons and that’s a completely invalid assumption of intent.

Amen! The bit about flippers being useful solely as weapons was way off-base and, quite frankly, got under my skin at least a little. It reminds me of the hysteria over automatic knives (which can be a very useful tool) that enveloped the United States in the 1950s and still unjustifiably exists to some extent today.

I'm at the point that I have no need for a fast-opening folder. The one I keep on hand is a collector's item (and a bad choice as a tool, never mind a weapon). If I want a knife that's ready to go in a hurry, I'll get a fixed blade.

However, as Nate pointed out, flippers can be opened quickly. In some jurisdictions, carrying an automatic and/or a fixed blade is a PITA, if not outright forbidden. I know many flippers cannot be carried in many parts of the world, which I consider a shame. Carrying a fixed blade in mixed or unknown company can be a bit...um, problematic (I found that out the hard way). It's possible that I may need to buy a flipper for those very reasons. So I won't bash them or write them off.