Spotting Counterfeits

[Landrew]

Ya counterfeits is what I thought this was about.  I remember the Gerber DETs, and there are routinely fake SAKs that ebayers are trying to sell as real ones.  I was just wondering if there are counterfeit leathermans or SOGs, as Ive never seen any.

I guess it depends on your definition of counterfeit. Does this count, since it has the Leatherman name on it, but doesn't in any way resemble any Leatherman product ever made?

http://www.aliexpress.com...ing/912445_578547551.html

Only if Leatherman didn't endorse this product, which seems likely in this case.  But good luck suing China.

[dks]

This type of threads in all forums are  problematic.

I am not happy with someone trying to sell a product branded as e.g. Wenger when it is not.
This tricks people and makes them get a product that is not what they were expecting.

However I and several others here may/or may not have bought products we knew were like that just to see how good they were.

Then comes the judgement by people that feel they should preach morality telling everybody that what they are doing, buying products that are not "original" is wrong.
Then some proceed further to tell people not to buy tools that are similar or inspired according to them by other makers, forgetting that the original product may have also been inspired by others. What level of similarity is allowed, even on products not claiming to be the “original product” depends on each individual. 

Have a look at BF to see people claiming that nearly every knife is a copy of their favourite brand, whatever it is. (Sebenza Vs SRM710 [and other knives] was a very popular topic a couple of years ago, though most people have now realised that they are two different knives, each with its own niche. Also {insert country  } vs the rest used to come up often in the past)

I have said it before but the fact that this forum is owned and run by a wealthy Canadian businessman helps people from all over the world to express their opinion freely, as Canada does not have any huge multitool companies that he may feel need to be supported by the forum.

So the idea of posting pictures/links of counterfeits may be good but the discussion that usually follows is not so good. Generally here people tend to judge a multitool on its overall performance, for the price rather than its morality.

[Landrew]

And I thought I was bad for moralizing...

[dks]

I was just talking/typing in general concerning this type of threads.

This forum is the least affected by what I described..

[TMFKAMJ]

Has this topic gone off the rails slightly??

I assumed the original post was regarding branding knock-offs.
Not whether a company has copied a blade profile or used the concept of scissors!!

Are we talking,  for example the recent Gerber DET's that were to be found on ebay and even amazon. To me personally, I find that when they actually use a 'Brand' name  in this instance  Gerber, i.e copy not only the font used but also blatant lies to origin of manufacture - it's this that I find totally unacceptable.

If they want to copy the Multitools specific tool layout - well thats bad enough, but to then list it as a genuine item is quite frankly deplorable and should be stamped out.

Ya counterfeits is what I thought this was about.  I remember the Gerber DETs, and there are routinely fake SAKs that ebayers are trying to sell as real ones.  I was just wondering if there are counterfeit leathermans or SOGs, as Ive never seen any.

remember the ''MAMUT" with "dental approved pliers" or something i'll edit in the link
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,38074.msg611717.html#msg611717

[Gareth]

Has this topic gone off the rails slightly??

I assumed the original post was regarding branding knock-offs.
Not whether a company has copied a blade profile or used the concept of scissors!!

Are we talking,  for example the recent Gerber DET's that were to be found on ebay and even amazon. To me personally, I find that when they actually use a 'Brand' name  in this instance  Gerber, i.e copy not only the font used but also blatant lies to origin of manufacture - it's this that I find totally unacceptable.

If they want to copy the Multitools specific tool layout - well thats bad enough, but to then list it as a genuine item is quite frankly deplorable and should be stamped out.

Ya counterfeits is what I thought this was about.  I remember the Gerber DETs, and there are routinely fake SAKs that ebayers are trying to sell as real ones.  I was just wondering if there are counterfeit leathermans or SOGs, as Ive never seen any.

remember the ''MAMUT" with "dental approved pliers" or something i'll edit in the link
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,38074.msg611717.html#msg611717

Ah, but I would argue that that isn't a counterfeit Leatherman.  After-all the name Leatherman doesn't appear anywhere on it.  It's no doubt a "copy" of an original Wave, but it also doesn't claim to be anything else. 

HOWEVER I do strongly suspect the use of the name Mammut is likely counterfeit, Mammut are an excellent (and pricey) maker of outdoor gear; clothing, sleeping bags, boots etc and I very much doubt that they had anything to do with this thing.

[Lynn LeFey]

DKS... i want you to understand EXACTLY what I'm talking about when I started this thread. My intent is exactly this: that people know that they are getting what they asked for.

I am neither making nor claiming ANYTHING about the quality of a tool, or it's design lineage, how 'borrowed' any design concept is, etc.

I intended this, and ONLY this... if you buy a something described as a Victorinox Rescue Tool on ebay, how do you know you're getting an ACTUAL Victorinox Rescue Tool. That kind of thing.

[dks]

LYNN LEFEY, no need to shout 

I know why you started the thread, no need to explain yourself.
I was posting based on my experience, not on the reasoning for the thread..

[Landrew]

Doesn't seem like shouting to me. Capitalization for added emphasis isn't a sin.

[dks]

Doesn't seem like shouting to me. Capitalization for added emphasis isn't a sin.

That is why I added the smiley face....   

[Outback in Idaho]

DKS... i want you to understand EXACTLY what I'm talking about when I started this thread. My intent is exactly this: that people know that they are getting what they asked for.

I am neither making nor claiming ANYTHING about the quality of a tool, or it's design lineage, how 'borrowed' any design concept is, etc.

I intended this, and ONLY this... if you buy a something described as a Victorinox Rescue Tool on ebay, how do you know you're getting an ACTUAL Victorinox Rescue Tool. That kind of thing.

Exactly. My late father had what I thought was a Swiss Army something. Not even sure if the thread exists anymore, but I found out it was a fake. Only good thing to come of it was the plastic toothpick that now resides in the 2009 SE Micra. The rest of its existence got chucked out my car's window at 55 MPH.

The good folks here let me know right off that is was fake. But how was I to know if had seen it on eBay? That is where I perty much discovered that 99% of what is on eBay are fake. Some things are harder to to fake, like a Leatherman Juice KF4 - not seen a fakey of that yet, probably too much work involved to fake one.

So when it comes to SAK items I went to a dealer. Even dealers can get scammed. But at least would of had recourse if it was a fake. But we cannot go around posting eBay listings of everything we see, here on the forums, to find if it is the genuine article or a genuine .

[Lynn LeFey]

Hmm...I wasn't even adding emphasis. I just, for some reason, thought the letters were capitalized in dks's name.

Sorry.

BUT I THINK WE'RE ALL FINE HERE NOW.

Xelkos... Yeah, I was just trying to get a discussion on how to know you're getting what you want. If people WANT a knock-off, I'm totally cool with that... as long as they KNOW they're getting a knock-off.

[dks]

BUT I THINK WE'RE ALL FINE HERE NOW.

 I was just trying to get a discussion on how to know you're getting what you want. If people WANT a knock-off, I'm totally cool with that... as long as they KNOW they're getting a knock-off.

No worries 
 
I nearly bought a "genuine" Gerber a while back, but sent a PM to some knowledgeable people here first and they pointed out that it was a low quality copy.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Wait a minute wait a minute, lets go back a few steps here.... who is this "wealthy Canadian businessman" that was mentioned?  Maybe I can get some pointers from him....

Def

Sent from my Motorola Atrix digital multitool.

[dks]

Wait a minute wait a minute, lets go back a few steps here.... who is this "wealthy Canadian businessman" that was mentioned?  Maybe I can get some pointers from him....

Def

Sent from my Motorola Atrix digital multitool.

I know... I was surprised nobody commented on that    

Obviously they just accepted it as a fact....   

[TMFKAMJ]

Has this topic gone off the rails slightly??

I assumed the original post was regarding branding knock-offs.
Not whether a company has copied a blade profile or used the concept of scissors!!

Are we talking,  for example the recent Gerber DET's that were to be found on ebay and even amazon. To me personally, I find that when they actually use a 'Brand' name  in this instance  Gerber, i.e copy not only the font used but also blatant lies to origin of manufacture - it's this that I find totally unacceptable.

If they want to copy the Multitools specific tool layout - well thats bad enough, but to then list it as a genuine item is quite frankly deplorable and should be stamped out.

Ya counterfeits is what I thought this was about.  I remember the Gerber DETs, and there are routinely fake SAKs that ebayers are trying to sell as real ones.  I was just wondering if there are counterfeit leathermans or SOGs, as Ive never seen any.

remember the ''MAMUT" with "dental approved pliers" or something i'll edit in the link
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,38074.msg611717.html#msg611717

Ah, but I would argue that that isn't a counterfeit Leatherman.  After-all the name Leatherman doesn't appear anywhere on it.  It's no doubt a "copy" of an original Wave, but it also doesn't claim to be anything else. 

HOWEVER I do strongly suspect the use of the name Mammut is likely counterfeit, Mammut are an excellent (and pricey) maker of outdoor gear; clothing, sleeping bags, boots etc and I very much doubt that they had anything to do with this thing.

true, true. So it still is a counterfeit but not a leatherman counterfeit. I would have to agree with the mammut part being fake, if any large company was going to make a tool with there name on it, espicialy with mammut being a high-end brand, they would definetly use a real well known company.

[Outback in Idaho]

Wait a minute wait a minute, lets go back a few steps here.... who is this "wealthy Canadian businessman" that was mentioned?  Maybe I can get some pointers from him....

Def

Sent from my Motorola Atrix digital multitool.

I know... I was surprised nobody commented on that    

Obviously they just accepted it as a fact....   

Or that we got a good out of it, savoring the moment. 

[Gareth]

Wait a minute wait a minute, lets go back a few steps here.... who is this "wealthy Canadian businessman" that was mentioned?  Maybe I can get some pointers from him....

Def

Sent from my Motorola Atrix digital multitool.

I was just assuming you'd been bought out Grant.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I must have been, but judging by my bank account it wasn't for much!

Def

[Gareth]

I must have been, but judging by my bank account it wasn't for much!

Def

Ahh, a cunning wealthy Canadian businessman.   Nope, definitely not Grant.

[UscgSal]

How about Benchmade!? A Chinese company - sounds like 'fish' - has the expensive big boys for almost nothing...so is BMK overcharging for a piece of metal ? If you really can't see the difference without expert experience...