New cutter desing and little runt on Leathermans.

[Antti Lammi]

I have seen now lately lot of pictures of new cutterdesing that leaves gap on bottom.
Is this somekind joke from Leatherman or pure desing flaw.
On that new desing you actually look ehat part of cutters you cut example wires and zipties since it wont cut them fully, especially like me i dont really watch what part of cutters i cut zipties and with that desing it wont cut cleanly ziptie or wire and you may need to cut it twice or just rip off remaining with pliers and it wont leave clean cut.
Quality Control issues are small but annoying things like frames causing scratches on pliers, loose tools, cutters shattering like Gerber cutters (has Gerber improved those cutters) misaligned pliers, pliers getting stiff after use and etc... As such money spent on tools you would actually wait value for your money and quality.
It is bit shame that overall quality on Leathermans has decreased, it was before comparing on quality with Victorinox (VIC quality is superb) tho LM had little flaws before but not this much and i really hope Leatherman fixes these problems. After seeing pictures, videos, hearing and reading these issues it makes me not to want buy new Leathermans until they actually fixes and improves things.
It feels like Leatherman doesnt anymore test products they make and even less actually checks new parts like those cutters, if they affraid pliers breaking why not just go back old desing and remove completly replaceable cutters. New cutters tend to break if you cut something bit harder where gap is ( like bit thicker copper wire)

Sorry for bit long post and runt but there is now something odd going on Leatherman, there is major quality control issues and now this desing oddness on cutters.
And that is on all new Leathermans including ARC.


Only Tools Matters

[SteveC]

It does seem to be a design flaw leaving a gap in the cutters. They must have known about it before releasing the new tool. I can't think of any reason they would purposely design then like that. Time will tell if the cutters that are breaking is a widespread problem or not.

I've said it before but I think Leatherman has lost its way.

[Antti Lammi]

It does seem to be a design flaw leaving a gap in the cutters. They must have known about it before releasing the new tool. I can't think of any reason they would purposely design then like that. Time will tell if the cutters that are breaking is a widespread problem or not.

I've said it before but I think Leatherman has lost its way.

What i have heard and read, ARC cutters suffered probably wrong heat treatment/material.
Most complaints from new cutters on Wave/Rebar has come it inability to cut anything precisely without adjusting material on right place and try to keep it in place(mostly thicker stuff tends to slip up or down easily)


Only Tools Matters

[Poncho65]

The gap at the bottom of the ARC does give reason for concern and I was looking at mine yesterday when I received it and was wondering how well it would cut

I also have problems with tie wire falling down into the hardwire notch and not cutting as effectively with several LM  over the years as well but ultimately they cut well as long as I pay attention where the wire is when I am cutting

[Antti Lammi]

The gap at the bottom of the ARC does give reason for concern and I was looking at mine yesterday when I received it and was wondering how well it would cut

I also have problems with tie wire falling down into the hardwire notch and not cutting as effectively with several LM  over the years as well but ultimately they cut well as long as I pay attention where the wire is when I am cutting

On new cutters there is visible gap on hardwire notch and that cant cut anything, older cutters wasnt perfect but would cut zipties cleanly.
For stripping wire it works somehow but it suppose to cut wires and there are many like me that just insert wire and dont positions material on right spot on cutters to be able to cut wires.
I may need to buy lots of those old cutters for store so if i break i can replace it samekind cutters.

I really hope Leatherman does something about these minor problems before they grows too big and damage reputation permanently.


Only Tools Matters

[Mangyang]

It is quite concerning. Lets hope they stopmaking these new ones.   Another point for non-replacable cutters til then.

[Antti Lammi]

It is quite concerning. Lets hope they stopmaking these new ones.   Another point for non-replacable cutters til then.

Well kinda yes point to solid cutters but i like those cutters what came with Rebar at first. I dunno why they altered cutters desing, cause that desing what came first was good enough.
Also saw just few pics on broken plier tips on ARC, i honestly thinking they pushed bit too fast these new parts and desings before actually test those on field, i wouldnt mind if ARC or new parts release was postponed forward cause of fieldtests.


Only Tools Matters

[Juan el Boricua]

My experience has been that since 2022, all replacement cutters (and probably 2022-on tools with replaceable cutters) have the revised version of them; rounded rear corner. IIRC, it was due to people complaining that that corner of the cutters would scrape over the pivot's edge. I long for the day that people would simply try to adjust things instead of whine about and,  when corrected for them, they still whine now about "how it does not work" ( rant not limited to Leatherman's cutters).

[Outback in Idaho]

  I removed the replaceable cutters from a Rebar pliers that I had installed on my Charge TTi. Since paying a hefty price (for me) on the Garage #5 I figured I would use it to its fullest extent.

  Before the cutters change there indeed was a small gap. The coat hanger test gave me about a 60% chance in a cut, and 40% more of a dent. Could still break the wire by flexing it. Swapping the cutters did solve the issue on the Garage #5.
  Putting the G#5's cutters in the Rebar pliers made it worse. The gap was longer and wider. Was rather shocked at the difference. And I would have not known of the issue up until I did cut something. Since Tim Leatherman brought us into the Multitool Age, I would of thought more testing and feedback would have went into their tools from people/users outside of their company -- and not all being "yes, it works" people.

  Now to find old stock replaceable cutters to put into the Rebar/Charge pliers. Have yet to break the cutters yet.

[Antti Lammi]

Just checked my Tti+ and Wave+ cutters and noticed that there is many version of cutters. I only have these 2, older left and newer right.
Newest models is same as left but it has rounded bottom and one model between my cutters it has rounded back and more squared upper part of back.

Also material changed during changes, i dunno is there how many material changes. If anyone has all these version i would really appreciate it. Founded those last 2 version by googling.






Only Tools Matters

[Aloha]

Here is my ST300 dated 02/14 and 04/14

[Aloha]

Here is my Surge dated XX/13 and 01/14

[Mangyang]

The new cutters have been in production for quite a while now. I’ve seen a brand new 2021 Wave with the new cutters. 
It is good though that you can buy aftermarket ones on ebay or aliexpress with better shapes. I dont know much about their quality though.

[Rich_SD]

I'm always skeptical of internet rumor bandwagons.  I see a lot of wild claims from hobbyists about Leatherman's QC process and manufacturing changes, but it's all just speculation.  I decided to test the cutters for myself, so I bought several sets with the intent to do a torture test to see their breaking point.  The initial test of my ARC cutters showed that they cut well, so I stared gathering thick things that might break the cutters... and then my busy life got in the way and my cutter test plans were set aside.  I would still like to find some time to do my torture test, but for me personally, it's a pointless test - if I break my replaceable cutters in normal use, then I just replace them (and now I have several spares on hand).  I don't go around cutting nails, so I suspect my ARC's cutters will last a long time.

[Outback in Idaho]

  Manufacturer's have protocols, steps, and ways to stay in business. No one can expect immediate satisfaction on a defective issue. While it may seem simple to the end user, it is not as simple for a company and to stay in business. Wait. How long? Who knows. Tired of waiting? Go elsewhere. Thus competition.

  Have done fixed the issue on my end and have moved on. Am planning on ordering more of these Damascus replacement cutters, although  I have no immediate need to do as such. Read other's posts, you might find something interesting.

  https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,91225.msg2458536.html#msg2458536

[Mangyang]

  Manufacturer's have protocols, steps, and ways to stay in business. No one can expect immediate satisfaction on a defective issue. While it may seem simple to the end user, it is not as simple for a company and to stay in business. Wait. How long? Who knows. Tired of waiting? Go elsewhere. Thus competition.

Yep I am eyeing those damascus cutters too. Not for the looks but I hope they work better. I dont esnt to aim my cuts.

  Have done fixed the issue on my end and have moved on. Am planning on ordering more of these Damascus replacement cutters, although  I have no immediate need to do as such. Read other's posts, you might find something interesting.

  https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,91225.msg2458536.html#msg2458536

[Antti Lammi]

  Manufacturer's have protocols, steps, and ways to stay in business. No one can expect immediate satisfaction on a defective issue. While it may seem simple to the end user, it is not as simple for a company and to stay in business. Wait. How long? Who knows. Tired of waiting? Go elsewhere. Thus competition.

  Have done fixed the issue on my end and have moved on. Am planning on ordering more of these Damascus replacement cutters, although  I have no immediate need to do as such. Read other's posts, you might find something interesting.

  https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,91225.msg2458536.html#msg2458536

there is tho plenty of diffrent kind cutters for it but why pay for those if those are defective from beginning. New cutter is bit like Gerbers cutters was, there is also so many small other things that use to be better, its bit ridicilous to pay premium just to fix it right away yourself when you get it. Because of that i havent bought new Leatherman in long time cause its bit lottery what kinda quality you get, IMO biggest problem on Leatherman is quality control nowdays.

Also there was those horrible cutters what had big hole near plier pivot, i know there suppose to be somekind hole but those holes were ridicilous big. Like i said quality has lowered overtime on Leatherman and if way is this its gonna be even worse, i like Leathermans but this is start to be ridicilous that you need fix  your tool when you get it after you have paid tool to be de facto on quality. its sad to see that sometimes on even cheaper tools have better QC than LM have.

There is good reason for me to stay on older models or models what has been on market enough long to be better quality ( well still new tools tends to have more flaws than older even on same product) also i understand that Leatherman needs to keep expenses low but why do it cost of quality (more like quality control)

[Fireman]

I'm always skeptical of internet rumor bandwagons.  I see a lot of wild claims from hobbyists about Leatherman's QC process and manufacturing changes, but it's all just speculation.  I decided to test the cutters for myself, so I bought several sets with the intent to do a torture test to see their breaking point.  The initial test of my ARC cutters showed that they cut well, so I stared gathering thick things that might break the cutters... and then my busy life got in the way and my cutter test plans were set aside.  I would still like to find some time to do my torture test, but for me personally, it's a pointless test - if I break my replaceable cutters in normal use, then I just replace them (and now I have several spares on hand).  I don't go around cutting nails, so I suspect my ARC's cutters will last a long time.

Yeah, that.  I don't view MT cutters as something I would use to cut barbwire fence. 

[Antti Lammi]

Yeah, that.  I don't view MT cutters as something I would use to cut barbwire fence.

Not on regularly but for new one it should go without breaking, if its not able to do it adding replaceable cutters if it cannot cut it without fear breaking cutters, when old model cutters could do it?
Just tested cutting bradnails with diffrent MTs and coat hanger wire, solid cutters were better, even my PST2 cutted better nail and coat hanger than my Wave+/Charge Tti + (also awful to squeeze when cutting nail and coat hanger) ST300 and Surge performed bit better but if we take only mid size tools solid cutters won. Also damaged my Charge cutters while cutting wire ( those were brand new cutters) so if new cutters cant handle those why bother making smurfty cutters what breaks, its only downhill, Remember Gerber Center-Drive cutters that breaked just by cutting copper wire ( i breaked those twice just cutting copper wire) whats the point of cutters that cant cut but breaks if comes situation where you need it.



I know everything in internet is bit questionable but if same problems start showing many places on different person and locations it start to be bit worrying.


Only Tools Matters

[SteveC]

there is tho plenty of diffrent kind cutters for it but why pay for those if those are defective from beginning. New cutter is bit like Gerbers cutters was, there is also so many small other things that use to be better, its bit ridicilous to pay premium just to fix it right away yourself when you get it. Because of that i havent bought new Leatherman in long time cause its bit lottery what kinda quality you get, IMO biggest problem on Leatherman is quality control nowdays.

Also there was those horrible cutters what had big hole near plier pivot, i know there suppose to be somekind hole but those holes were ridicilous big. Like i said quality has lowered overtime on Leatherman and if way is this its gonna be even worse, i like Leathermans but this is start to be ridicilous that you need fix  your tool when you get it after you have paid tool to be de facto on quality. its sad to see that sometimes on even cheaper tools have better QC than LM have.

There is good reason for me to stay on older models or models what has been on market enough long to be better quality ( well still new tools tends to have more flaws than older even on same product) also i understand that Leatherman needs to keep expenses low but why do it cost of quality (more like quality control)

   Leatherman has lost their way IMO   

[Antti Lammi]

   Leatherman has lost their way IMO   

They are innovative but quality isnt matching it anymore. Luckily there is plenty old tools on market what i see better option nowdays, i just hope that thos is minor setback and quality will raise again.


Only Tools Matters

[Rich_SD]

I'm over 200 Leatherman's in now, and I have yet to get a single lemon... and I'm not even a lucky person      I have seen a couple real QC slips posted online, but that's just normal with mass production.  A quick warranty exchange and the problem is resolved.  I'm sure no one wants to pay the price of a tool that comes from a 100% defect free production process.

[Aloha]

I only have to older tools so my experience is limited in that.  I have not had issues cutting or shattered cutters.  I cut hanger and thin gage animal fencing.  I've cut small nails and a lot of zip ties.  As to quality, one from what I read here and elsewhere there does seem to be more talk regarding less QC.  I wonder if the current pricing is part of why some feel the quality is lacking or is it in comparison to other tools, i.e. MTs from Victorinox? 

Like Rich I have not had a lemon that I can recall.  All tools I bought were ready for work that day.  I even bought quite a lot of used tools. 

[Antti Lammi]

I had one time many tools but i mostly sold those when i got replace Waves (1st gens and 2nd gens) changed to Wave+  (kinda regret that i sended those to warranty) It first started small QC problems but it growed over years. I dont buy any LM anymore as new if im gonna use it, i prefer to buy older Leathermans since those has much less problems compared to new ones.

and yes we expect to get value for money especially if we pay high prices for those. basicly 10y old Wave was same price then what Wave+ cost now and then quality was better.

[Antti Lammi]

double post

[Aloha]

Our experiences with our tools shape what we feel.  We hear about others who have zero issues and others who hear we have issues.  What's important from my perspective is understanding each other and the great conversation.  Sure there are some who just want to complain and pick apart a tool or company.  I find most members are just unhappy with what they spent after hearing rave reviews. 

I'm thankful I have not had issues.  I am not happy when I hear of members who have. 

[Antti Lammi]

Our experiences with our tools shape what we feel.  We hear about others who have zero issues and others who hear we have issues.  What's important from my perspective is understanding each other and the great conversation.  Sure there are some who just want to complain and pick apart a tool or company.  I find most members are just unhappy with what they spent after hearing rave reviews. 

I'm thankful I have not had issues.  I am not happy when I hear of members who have.

True, i just wish that they have been bad batch of parts what Leatherman received from contractors and bit lazyness of QC people.  I really hope it becomes back on top of notch on quality since it makes people buying more tools and we may receive more members along that who seeks knowledge how to improve and mod their tools beyond regular tools.

[Aloha]

Here is what I typically cut at home.  The white and brass looking metal are coat hangers.  I've cut other things and no issues to report. 

[Outback in Idaho]

  Personally had some quality fitting issues with a Surge v1.0; Leatherman looked it over, the parts were supposedly fixed. Figured out what made them fit better. Had a blade popping out when the pliers were in use - unsafe. However. Surge is one tool I have never been able to break no matter what I threw at it.

  Only tool I broke was the pliers on my first Crunch. My heart hit bottom when I felt those pliers give way. It came through for me in many situations, and even in welding class. Could fold the pliers up and close the handles, it would stay. The new ones, the pliers kept wanting to flex out and fight being closed.

[Rich_SD]

Our experiences with our tools shape what we feel.  We hear about others who have zero issues and others who hear we have issues.  What's important from my perspective is understanding each other and the great conversation.  Sure there are some who just want to complain and pick apart a tool or company.  I find most members are just unhappy with what they spent after hearing rave reviews. 

I'm thankful I have not had issues.  I am not happy when I hear of members who have.

    

I agree!  What bothers me is when people form a conclusion based on just reading posts and/or watching videos, most of which are retelling other people's experience and/or wild speculation.  I get it - us hobbyists like to pontificate about every aspect of our favorite tools, but I think our discussions often magnify small issues (and even non issues) to a point that they seem much larger than they really are.