Australian Knife Laws

[gregozedobe]

Suffice to say - I think from now on, lots of people will be removing their classics from their keychain, to save the worry of potential issues.

I'll continue to pocket carry my LM Squirt P4 and won't worry too much about it.  The next time a cop asks to see what's in my pockets will be the first time, and I've lived in Oz for more than 70 years.  Admittedly I rarely do anything to attract Police attention...

[Carthas]

I'll continue to pocket carry my LM Squirt P4 and won't worry too much about it.  The next time a cop asks to see what's in my pockets will be the first time, and I've lived in Oz for more than 70 years.  Admittedly I rarely do anything to attract Police attention...

In Queensland the government introduced "Jack's Law", named after a 19yo kid who was stabbed in the city. It allows Police to use a metal detector on anyone they like in a safe night precinct or public transport hub. The police deploy at the transport hubs and wand EVERYONE. Anyone they find with a knife or Multitool they charge - even if they have a valid excuse for carrying one as set out in Queensland's knife laws. It's up to you then, to argue your case in court. In the one case I've read where that has happened, the prosecutor offered a deal of a guilty plea in exchange for a $100 fine and no criminal conviction recorded. I expect most people will take the deal as pleading innocent means spending extra on court fees and no guarantee that the judge will find in your favor. Apparently the father of Jack is going to NSW to try to convince the premier there to implement Jack's law, as it has been so successful in Queensland, based on them seizing 1000's on knives. In Queenslnad, they're also looking at extending the places where they can use Jack's law to shopping centres.

I can't help but feel that this is wrong, that the government is targeting innocent people who are lawfully carrying a knife, just to make it look like they're being "tough on knife crime". It feels almost like a dumb version of Minority report - where they try to arrest you for a crime that you might commit in future, by acting that if you're carrying a knife, you're automatically up to no good. https://mypolice.qld.gov.au/news/2024/03/28/morayfield-commuter-safety-crackdown/

[Sea Monster]

In Queensland the government introduced "Jack's Law", named after a 19yo kid who was stabbed in the city. It allows Police to use a metal detector on anyone they like in a safe night precinct or public transport hub. The police deploy at the transport hubs and wand EVERYONE. Anyone they find with a knife or Multitool they charge - even if they have a valid excuse for carrying one as set out in Queensland's knife laws. It's up to you then, to argue your case in court. In the one case I've read where that has happened, the prosecutor offered a deal of a guilty plea in exchange for a $100 fine and no criminal conviction recorded. I expect most people will take the deal as pleading innocent means spending extra on court fees and no guarantee that the judge will find in your favor. Apparently the father of Jack is going to NSW to try to convince the premier there to implement Jack's law, as it has been so successful in Queensland, based on them seizing 1000's on knives. In Queenslnad, they're also looking at extending the places where they can use Jack's law to shopping centres.

I can't help but feel that this is wrong, that the government is targeting innocent people who are lawfully carrying a knife, just to make it look like they're being "tough on knife crime". It feels almost like a dumb version of Minority report - where they try to arrest you for a crime that you might commit in future, by acting that if you're carrying a knife, you're automatically up to no good. https://mypolice.qld.gov.au/news/2024/03/28/morayfield-commuter-safety-crackdown/

There's versions of this (what I'm about to say, not what you said), in most australian states - if you want the history read up on Garry David - basically in 1990 Australia decided to give itself the power to "detain" people because 'they might do something, somewhere, somehow' - note this is before all the terroism rhetoric that came a decade later.

Here's the title info from the NSW version of the "Community Protection Act"

'An Act to protect the community by providing for the preventive
detention of persons who are, in the opinion of the Supreme Court, more
likely than not to commit serious acts of violence."



More or less until that point in time, you had to actually commit a crime before you had business with the police - since then the states have progressively increased the "robust powers" the police have to "find bad guys"


I won't submit an opinion on the ethics of how Australian state policing occurs, just providing a bit of backstory to the last 30 odd years of, let's call it policing culture

[pietervn]

Hopefully bladeless multi's should still be ok. The other option is to leave it in a lunchbox with a piece of fruit.

It is sad that it has come this far. It would be interesting to see which knives have been used. Easy access kitchen knives has been used in most cases as far as I am aware.

Pete

[Vidar]

In Queenslnad, they're also looking at extending the places where they can use Jack's law to shopping centres.

Most shopping centres have shops that sells knives in some form or another, so that might be a challenge. Both from view of actual impact and from the view of how to get knives actually bought home..

[Farmer X]

Torches are considered a breaking and entering tool.

YGBSM.

[IMR4198]

Rainy night in Sydney.  A couple run to the door of a house.  Then they stop at the front door.

"Hurry Ronald, I'm getting soaked.  Oh, you oaf can't you find the key?"

"I'm trying dearest.  Really.  You think it's easy finding that dratted key in the dark.  Let's see....?  No that isn't it.  I know I have it somewhere....

"Don't you have one of those pocket torches?  You used to carry one.  Hurry.  My shoes are just ruined."

"Can't carry one now.  The police call them burglary tools.  Can't have them thinking we are breaking and entering or something.... I give up.  Give me one of your shoes.  I will use it to batter in the glass and reach through to the lock. "
 

[nate j]

It feels almost like a dumb version of Minority report - where they try to arrest you for a crime that you might commit in future…

This is pretty much the way I feel about the “red flag” laws that have been popping up here in the US.

People can have their rights trampled and their property seized, not because of any crime they have committed, but because they might possibly harm themselves or others at some point in the future.

Even when the laws require a hearing before a judge, the initial hearing on whether or not to issue a confiscation order is generally held ex parte, so the prospective subject of the order doesn’t even have the opportunity to be present at the hearing to present a defense.

Also, while I’m not a lawyer, a casual perusal of the Bill of Rights suggests to my mind that these laws are likely in violation of one or more of the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th Amendments.

[nate j]

torches are considered a breaking and entering tool

Is that any torch, or just the ones big enough to be used as bludgeons?

IDK about anyone else, but my torches are mostly “see where I’m going in the dark so I don’t fall on my smurf tools”.