Leatherman Arc Love

[Bigshep]

Hello everybody. I don't  see a lot of Arc love here and I am wondering why. What is the deal with nobody showing the Arc any love?

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[Murphy Slaw]

I dig it.

[Bigshep]

I dig it.

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I knew they were out there!

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[nate j]

I don’t think it is true that no one here likes the Arc.  We definitely have folks, like MS, who use it and like it.

If you’re asking why everyone isn’t falling all over themselves praising the Arc, I believe it is because everyone’s wants and needs are different.  I also like to think that, overall, we’re a pretty discerning group, meaning that we recognize that any tool has its positives and negatives, strengths and weaknesses.

Personally, I have a handful of PBMTs (Pliers-Based MutliTools), but my needs and interests tend to run more towards knives and KBMTs (Knife-Based MultiTools).  Also, while I admit I haven’t handled one, IMO the Arc is overpriced at $230.  (Others may have a different opinion, and that’s perfectly fine.)

Finally, if you’re looking for more information and opinions on the Arc, you might try the Leatherman subforum (link below).  Use the search function and look for “arc”.

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/board,3.0.html?PHPSESSID=be79d437a3223f9d2b4789bfd78f1721

[Magic Bus]

Here’s mine.

[powernoodle]

The ARC received tons of attention here.  But the exorbitant MSRP turned a few of us off, and for me the tool set on the Wave+ along with the Wave's tool deployment are superior.  Even so, I bought a used ARC because that's what we do here at MTO.  I just made sure that Leatherman did not get the sale.  It was my small vote against Leatherman's rocketing MSRPs.  It makes the $99 Super Tool 300 seem like a bargain by comparison.



All of that aside, one can make it through the day just fine with an ARC on the belt or in the pocket.   

[powernoodle]

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[SurgeUk]

The ARC received tons of attention here.  But the exorbitant MSRP turned a few of us off, and for me the tool set on the Wave+ along with the Wave's tool deployment are superior.  Even so, I bought a used ARC because that's what we do here at MTO.  I just made sure that Leatherman did not get the sale.  It was my small vote against Leatherman's rocketing MSRPs.  It makes the $99 Super Tool 300 seem like a bargain by comparison.

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All of that aside, one can make it through the day just fine with an ARC on the belt or in the pocket.   

  Try £260 GBP ($335 USD) That may explain the lack of uptake this side of the pond 

I'd love a used one (not paying UK RRP) but flea-bay won't ship here anymore 

[Bigshep]

The ARC received tons of attention here.  But the exorbitant MSRP turned a few of us off, and for me the tool set on the Wave+ along with the Wave's tool deployment are superior.  Even so, I bought a used ARC because that's what we do here at MTO.  I just made sure that Leatherman did not get the sale.  It was my small vote against Leatherman's rocketing MSRPs.  It makes the $99 Super Tool 300 seem like a bargain by comparison.

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All of that aside, one can make it through the day just fine with an ARC on the belt or in the pocket.   

Glad to hear you have one anyway!
Seeing as that you have one. Where would you rank it among your leatherman tools

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[David Bowen]

 I'm a huge fan of the Arc, it's probably my favorite Leatherman tool to date. I've been a huge Wave/Charge fan for a while and it's taken a permanent spot where those once were. For me it's the perfect tool. I feel it is priced high, but after owning other products from companies like Buck, Benchmade, etc that are American companies, that alone is effecting the price. Higher wages, cost of materials and this economy are making our tools and gear higher than ever before. I am however seeing that in spite of that people are willing to cough up the dough to continue to buy American made and understand that with it comes a potential price tag.

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[powernoodle]

Where would you rank it among your leatherman tools

There is not much objectively wrong with the ARC other than the MSRP.  If I recall correctly, it loses the serrated blade from the Wave+ and gains an awl.  There may other minor differences in the tool selection, and then you get the magnetic deployment with the ARC.  The ARC has the micro driver, which I have never used even once on any Leatherman.

I prefer the old school deployment of the Wave+, Surge+, etc., but that is subjective. 

The ARC is a fine MT, no doubt about it.  I just subjectively prefer the legacy design of Leathermans going back to the Blast, Core, etc., and even the PST.  And the legacy price.

So I would rank the ARC below most of its predecessors, except the OG Super Tool and Super Tool 200, which had pretty bad locking mechanisms which were not groovy.  But that was part of the evolution of the ST design.

But again, this is all subjective because most Leatherman MTs do pretty much the same things:  grab, cut and drive.  Priced at $99, I would take the ARC over the ST300 because of the outside opening tools.  But at $229 v. $99, and I'd go with the ST 300, or the $79 Rebar, or $119 Wave+.

 

[SurgeUk]

There is not much objectively wrong with the ARC other than the MSRP.  If I recall correctly, it loses the serrated blade from the Wave+ and gains an awl.  There may other minor differences in the tool selection, and then you get the magnetic deployment with the ARC.  The ARC has the micro driver, which I have never used even once on any Leatherman.

I prefer the old school deployment of the Wave+, Surge+, etc., but that is subjective. 

The ARC is a fine MT, no doubt about it.  I just subjectively prefer the legacy design of Leathermans going back to the Blast, Core, etc., and even the PST.  And the legacy price.

So I would rank the ARC below most of its predecessors, except the OG Super Tool and Super Tool 200, which had pretty bad locking mechanisms which were not groovy.  But that was part of the evolution of the ST design.

But again, this is all subjective because most Leatherman MTs do pretty much the same things:  grab, cut and drive.  Priced at $99, I would take the ARC over the ST300 because of the outside opening tools.  But at $229 v. $99, and I'd go with the ST 300, or the $79 Rebar, or $119 Wave+.

 

+1 for the use of "not groovy" 

[styx]

Try £260 GBP ($335 USD) That may explain the lack of uptake this side of the pond 

I'd love a used one (not paying UK RRP) but flea-bay won't ship here anymore 

Just above 300 Euros in my neck of the woods.

maybe if they made a model with a lower end steel it would also bring the price down?
 an interesting tool to say the least and not a bad toolset at all

[powernoodle]

+1 for the use of "not groovy" 

I was born in the '60s.   

[Bigshep]

I am afraid we will continue  to see rising prices. The U.S. economy drives that. I wonder how much of that is Leatherman's fault and how much is due to upward material/labor costs.

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[ReamerPunch]

Just above 300 Euros in my neck of the woods.

maybe if they made a model with a lower end steel it would also bring the price down?
 an interesting tool to say the least and not a bad toolset at all

The Free P4 exists. I'll keep it in mind. The ARC is nice too. Maybe too nice. $500 here, so $330 USD. Yeah, I'll stick to my $48 Rebar and $100 Charge G10.

[Magic Bus]

I ‘ve had an Arc for a couple of months now, long enough to know I really like it.
I don’t need everything to be one handed but I’m impressed by the fact that it is. It’s different enough to be interesting. I’ve been around MT’s for sixteen years or so now and I don’t regret buying it even if I don’t need it (a Wave served me well for years).

[Murphy Slaw]

I was born in the '60s.   

I can dig it.

I was born in the late 50's.....

[Magic Bus]

I can dig it.

I was born in the late 50's.....

Me too 

[Murphy Slaw]

Any high quality American built tool with a magnacut blade is going to cost more.

[Bigshep]

Any high quality American built tool with a magnacut blade is going to cost more.

This is true

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[styx]

The Free P4 exists. I'll keep it in mind. The ARC is nice too. Maybe too nice. $500 here, so $330 USD. Yeah, I'll stick to my $48 Rebar and $100 Charge G10.

I'm not as impressed with the P4 tool set.
Are you sure about the Rebar and Charge prices? Because those sound like absolute bargains

[David Bowen]

The rebar is $79 now and when I bought mine a decade ago it was $50. Charge is $160-200 depending on the model. Last charge is bought was a few years ago at Bass Pro and spent $189 before taxes. Yes prices have gotten crazy.

I think the FREE toolset is iffy, has some really good tools and others are lackluster. I think the shortcomings of the platform have been addressed with the Arc. Until the Arc I didn't want another FREE item like a P4. I chose the Charge over the P4 and there wasn't much of a price difference if I remember, but it had a better toolset.

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[Rich_SD]

I'm a huge fan of the Arc, it's probably my favorite Leatherman tool to date. I've been a huge Wave/Charge fan for a while and it's taken a permanent spot where those once were. For me it's the perfect tool. I feel it is priced high, but after owning other products from companies like Buck, Benchmade, etc that are American companies, that alone is effecting the price. Higher wages, cost of materials and this economy are making our tools and gear higher than ever before. I am however seeing that in spite of that people are willing to cough up the dough to continue to buy American made and understand that with it comes a potential price tag.

   What this guy said!   

The ARC is easily my favorite multitool.  The design and craftsmanship are outstanding, and the tool selection is almost perfect.   I don't even mind the high MSRP - in an economy where a lunch at McDonalds for my family is $50, $229 for something that will last me a lifetime seems very reasonable. 

[David Bowen]

  What this guy said!   

The ARC is easily my favorite multitool.  The design and craftsmanship are outstanding, and the tool selection is almost perfect.   I don't even mind the high MSRP - in an economy where a lunch at McDonalds for my family is $50, $229 for something that will last me a lifetime seems very reasonable. 

Absolutely! I know people will always fuss about price, after all I want to pay as little as I can most of the time. But when it comes to quality, something I know will last a long time, and a warranty that has my back the Arc is a sure win. Yes it's not for everyone, but people got to respect the quality and ingenuity that was put into this tool.

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[Bigshep]

Absolutely! I know people will always fuss about price, after all I want to pay as little as I can most of the time. But when it comes to quality, something I know will last a long time, and a warranty that has my back the Arc is a sure win. Yes it's not for everyone, but people got to respect the quality and ingenuity that was put into this tool.

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Agreed also. If I can help a fellow American out at LM by buying their product, I will. There is a lot of innovation in the Arc and it reflects in the initial pricing. Think about who had to be paid for the Arc. D3signers, engineers, new material contracts, new tooling. Put that with the economy, inflation, it begins to make sense. I am just  happy they are putting in the effort to give customers new innovative products. They could have opted to lay off employees charge $150 for the Arc and pocket the profit.

I look at it as a blessing!!


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[Rich_SD]

    

Valuing low cost over quality almost always leads to moving production to China and using inferior material.  Leatherman can easily go the route of Gerber and produce multitools at a much lower cost overseas, but who really wants that?  If I want a cheap (and inferior) multitool, I'll just buy a Gerber.

[Craig_S]

I'm not being cheap or trying to justify a lower cost . I can't stand the Free series and wish it was never invented. The tooling is inferior to the others in so many way's it's actually surprising.  And don't even get me started on magnets or the bizarre need to be able to open every little thing one-handed.  Yes, it has a really nice knife. So why isn't it offered on any other tool? Because LM is pushing everyone to go with that platform so they can continue to downsize....would be my guess.

Also, for me, the Wave/Surge is already too "new fangled" and I would rather stick with the old fully-internal tool setup. Heck, I'll never even be used to locking tools after carrying a PST for so long. Still try to fold everything in without unlocking them first. And no, I don't think they need to lock in the first place either. My tools are used and I know how to operate them without blaming something for folding in when it shouldn't. Just hold your tongue right and it works fine.

So even if the price was half of a ST300, I'd never own one. If LM decides that's the way they're going and quit making all the others, I have enough older tools to get me through until I'm not able to tinker any more.

Craig

[powernoodle]

   

Demographics may play a role in what we think about the ARC's MSRP.  I'm guessing that the relatively younglings among us are more agreeable to the ARC's price, whereas the older users - like me - are not so thrilled about it.  This may be because after hoarding and carrying and loving Leatherman MTs for decades, we know that Leatherman can make high quality, well-designed MTs at a reasonable price.  We hate to see that business model disappear.

Rocketing MSRPs v. Chinese junk is a false choice.  There is a rational middle ground of high quality at reasonable prices that Leatherman once had, and which Victorinox still has.  Leatherman's quality has declined in concert with its ballooning MSRPs.  I can't bring myself to praise them for that.

There is a lot more that goes into skyrocketing MSRPs than quality and inflation.  For one, Leatherman appears to have adopted a premium pricing strategy on the ARC, which sets the MSRP at higher than market value to encourage favorable perceptions among buyers, based solely on the price.  Benchmade and Chris Reeve have done this for a long time, and it can be effective at both shaping public opinion and increasing per unit margins.  "Look how much it costs.  It must be good!"

For years, Leatherman's MSRPs have been growing far in excess of inflation.  I have written about this in the past.  So its not merely an inflation-based paradigm.

I noted in the other ARC thread that both Portland and Oregon are increasing their business and other taxes faster than just about anywhere in America, so I won't belabor that here.  That gets passed along to the consumer in higher MSRPs.  I would favor relocating Leatherman to Texas or Tennessee for this reason (just as Smith & Wesson moved from Massachusetts to Tennessee), but Tim Leatherman hasn't asked me what I think about that.

My view is that Leatherman is going to continue increasing MSRPs until they see some pushback from the consumer.  For me, that time is now. 

Maybe I'm the John Adams of the MSRP revolution.    

[Rich_SD]

the bizarre need to be able to open every little thing one-handed. 

I have many bizarre needs, and the least interesting of them is my need for one-hand opening blades.