Royal Mail UK no longer allowing knives to be posted

[greenbear]

Apparently as of 22nd April Royal Mail (UK's national postal service) will no longer permit the sending of knives ('bladed articles') through the post.

Is there a viable alternative? I have heard that DPD are also not keen.

I also wonder how that will affect makers and suppliers

[SurgeUk]

Apparently as of 22nd April Royal Mail (UK's national postal service) will no longer permit the sending of knives ('bladed articles') through the post.

Is there a viable alternative? I have heard that DPD are also not keen.

I also wonder how that will affect makers and suppliers

FFS!  Do you have a link for this (I will check in the meantime)

I wanted to do a GAW next month but this would seriously restrict my options 

[SurgeUk]

FFS!  Do you have a link for this (I will check in the meantime)

I wanted to do a GAW next month but this would seriously restrict my options 

Found it!!

So not actually banned (as such) but requires it to be sent via an "age verified" system.

Not a major deviation from the current laws* just a bit more problematic for in country stuff (or out of country stuff being delivered here)

*Not saying I agree

Bladed items

‘Knives or Blades’ defined by s141A Criminal Justice Act 1988 or ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by s41 of Offensive Weapons Act 2019. Such items include, but are not limited to, any knife blade, any kitchen knife (regardless of size or design), bread knives, knives that can be used for hobbies and trades (regardless of whether they are marketed as knives, for instance, utility knives and snap-off cutters), gardening and farming tools that have a blade, any trade tool that could commonly be described as a knife, butcher’s knives (including meat cleavers), cutlery knives, scissors with sharp edges, sporting equipment with a blade, replica and antique knives (including those used for re-enactment purposes), handmade and bespoke knives, open razors (where the blade is exposed), any axe, any sword, survival knives, or machete. Also, see Weapons below.

Please Note: It is the senders’ responsibility to ensure compliance with the law.

The following links to the legislation and guidance may assist:
Criminal Justice Act 1988 Opens in new window
Offensive Weapons Act 2019 Opens in new window
Statutory guidance: Offensive Weapons Act 2019 Opens in new window

    International  - Not allowed in the mail
    UK - Allowed in the mail, with product restrictions and packaging guidelines. IMPORTANT NOTICE: on and from Monday 22 April 2024 Bladed Items will be prohibited by Royal Mail for all UK destinations.
        These items may only be sent using the Royal Mail Tracked Age Verification service (this service is only available through Royal Mail Click & Drop Opens in new window
        Package appropriately so items present no risk to employees, other postal items or recipients.
        Wrap heavy cardboard around sharp edges and points, strong enough to ensure that the contents do not pierce the outer packaging.
        Wrap each item with cushioning material and place in a suitable outer container such as a padded envelope.
        The sender's name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.
        Marked to clearly indicate a bladed item is enclosed

[Blunt Object]

Clown world  This will solve the UK's knife crime problem?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Clown world  This will solve the UK's knife crime problem?

Of course it will.  Laws always stop the criminals, don't they?   

I don't think any government is free of idiotic laws.

Def

[powernoodle]

International  - Not allowed in the mail

Does that mean I cannot ship to you that gold-plated ARC with engraved signature of Catherine, Princess of Wales that I have packed up and ready to go?

 

[greenbear]

As you can see, however, the information given by Royal Mail is contradictory. I am really not sure how "from Monday 22 April 2024 Bladed Items will be prohibited by Royal Mail for all UK destinations". can be reconciled with Royal Mail's Age Verifies service which is currently in place.  Worryingly, according to another source anyone caught breaking the rules may be subject to a 12 month prison sentence.

" UK - Allowed in the mail, with product restrictions and packaging guidelines. IMPORTANT NOTICE: on and from Monday 22 April 2024 Bladed Items will be prohibited by Royal Mail for all UK destinations.
        These items may only be sent using the Royal Mail Tracked Age Verification service (this service is only available through Royal Mail Click & Drop Opens in new window
        Package appropriately so items present no risk to employees, other postal items or recipients.
        Wrap heavy cardboard around sharp edges and points, strong enough to ensure that the contents do not pierce the outer packaging.
        Wrap each item with cushioning material and place in a suitable outer container such as a padded envelope.
        The sender's name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.
        Marked to clearly indicate a bladed item is enclosed"

[nate j]

I read it as:

Current State (until April 22): Bladed items must sent using the age verification service, securely packaged, etc.

Future State (April 22 and thereafter):  No bladed items may be sent via Royal Mail.



But I’m on the other side of the pond, so

[Murphy Slaw]

Man, you guys need to form a large block of common-sense activists with money and push back or eventually you'll lose everything.

[greenbear]

I read it as:

Current State (until April 22): Bladed items must sent using the age verification service, securely packaged, etc.

Future State (April 22 and thereafter):  No bladed items may be sent via Royal Mail.



But I’m on the other side of the pond, so

That is the way I read it, especially as the age verification I already in place.

[Huntsman]

I read it as:
Current State (until April 22): Bladed items must sent using the age verification service, securely packaged, etc.
Future State (April 22 and thereafter):  No bladed items may be sent via Royal Mail.

That is how I read it too. What nonsense - Although hopefully great for the High Street and Department Stores etc etc

Big opportunity for alternate delivery services to step in?          DHL etc?

But I guess they are more expensive

Dumb question: IIRC .... A few years ago the Royal Mail split off their packages division and that became Parcel Force
Can you still send knives via Parcel Force - Or are the Royal Mail and Parcel Force back together again? 

[greenbear]

Huntsman, you are right on the splitting of Royal Mail and Parcel Force.

As far as I am aware they are still separate companies (although still processed at Royal Mail sorting offices etc) however they are not a terribly reliable service.  When my Dad died I sold a lot of his outdoor model railway to collectors (I have no interest in the hobby) and of over around 30 postings I had one parcel lost, one item damaged and one that disappeared for a couple of months. So I would shy away from using them again.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Does Parcel Force wear spandex and capes?

Or at least have henchmen with silly names printed on their chests?

Def

[Vidar]

Apparently as of 22nd April Royal Mail (UK's national postal service) will no longer permit the sending of knives ('bladed articles') through the post.

That is just beyond silly. The people with bad intentions still can get knifes more or less anywhere - including their kitchen drawers. The other side is that the postal service will happily send far more dangerous items.

[greenbear]

Does Parcel Force wear spandex and capes?

Or at least have henchmen with silly names printed on their chests?

Def

I would rather like it if they did  The sad reality is that they are (mostly) miserable delivery men who are not treat terribly well by their employers.

[greenbear]

That is just beyond silly. The people with bad intentions still can get knifes more or less anywhere - including their kitchen drawers. The other side is that the postal service will happily send far more dangerous items.

Absolutely true and (without drifting into politics) most UK knife crime is either machetes or kitchen knives so, either nicked from garden sheds or Mum's knife draw.

[SurgeUk]

I'm planning another GAW, April    (details to follow)

So it will be interesting to see what my options are and whether I need to adjust sending/delivery options and expectations accordingly for the UK/Abroad (depending upon the winner  )

I'll update as and when...

[Jim the Brave]

You might just have to take the box to the recipient by walking there yourself.

[Vidar]

Walking around in public with knives is likely banned already so maybe not even an option.. Hidden in a box? Concealed knives - even worse. I think I'm getting the concept of this! 

I vote for drone delivery. Just land on delivery and don't drop knives from a height - that actually does sound bad. 

[pfrsantos]

I give you guys a couple o'years until awl you can eat is porridge and fish and chips. Anything requiring a cutting utensil to be eaten will be outlawed.

 

[Tasky]

As you can see, however, the information given by Royal Mail is contradictory. I am really not sure how "from Monday 22 April 2024 Bladed Items will be prohibited by Royal Mail for all UK destinations". can be reconciled with Royal Mail's Age Verifies service which is currently in place.

I understand Royal Fail to be the standard postal service, with Royal Fail Tracked Age Verification being a separate service, of sorts.
I presume Parcel Farce will do something similar and, like Amazon/DPD/etc, it just means your postie will ask to see your driving licence at the door.

[greenbear]

I understand Royal Fail to be the standard postal service, with Royal Fail Tracked Age Verification being a separate service, of sorts.
I presume Parcel Farce will do something similar and, like Amazon/DPD/etc, it just means your postie will ask to see your driving licence at the door.

Apparently Royal Mail will no longer handle "bladed items at all from 22nd April, the "age verification" thing is an intermediate step. I. like you, thought it was going to be age verification on an ongoing basis which, given the out of control levels of knife crime in the UK does not seem an unreasonable step, all we are being asked to do is prove we are of age, no big deal.

[Ukleathermanfan]

Apparently Royal Mail will no longer handle "bladed items at all from 22nd April, the "age verification" thing is an intermediate step. I. like you, thought it was going to be age verification on an ongoing basis which, given the out of control levels of knife crime in the UK does not seem an unreasonable step, all we are being asked to do is prove we are of age, no big deal.

It's a big deal, more beaurocracy and another attempt to stop us having nice things.
They're all using kitchen knives anyway.

[SurgeUk]

I'm doing a GAW for April and the chances are that the winner will be non UK based 

I'll let you awl know 

[MichaelGT83]

It's a big deal, more beaurocracy and another attempt to stop us having nice things.
They're all using kitchen knives anyway.

I've had quite a few things delivered under the age verification system, with either myself or my old man (in his late 60s) opening the door. Only once has some jobsworth asked to see ID. Every other time it's been "yeah, you're good." Hardly the height of oppressive bureaucracy.

I can understand the efforts to prevent knives falling into the wrong hands as well, even if we all know the culprits aren't buying SAKs, multi tools or trads.

[Fireman]

So what does the Brit in need of a new paring knife do?  In person sales only?  Order up some obsidian and knap their own? 

[Vidar]

Knife, age, postal... However, I think what I'm more sceptical about is public services making their own political/ regulatory policies. If I read the earlier posts in the thread correctly then unlawful knives were already illegal to send. So this is a public service making a more restrictive policy on their own and refusing to send legal products of a particular type? That is a slippery slope - lots of products can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

Most on this forum likely live democracies and where the agreed arrangement is that politicians make the laws and regulations, courts judge and police enforces. If various public services are going to start implementing and enforce their own (random/ trendy) political policies within their scope of power this arrangement will become hollowed out.

[BPRoberts]

I can't speak for other countries, but individual agencies are definitely empowered to make/interpret their own regulations in the US. There's some debate as to the degree to which they can do it, but it'd be difficult for them to function without some ability to do so. It's also nearly impossible for politicians to effectively build all the specifics into laws, since they're not experts in all the things they might have to regulate. That's how you get laws that are technically impossible to follow/enforce.

While this specific case is questionable, I'd generally rather have the people who work on and have experience with things be the ones making the decisions on them, rather than a gaggle of lawyers who don't know anything about farms, computers, knives, hair ties, or whatever they're legislating that week

[Vidar]

I can't speak for other countries, but individual agencies are definitely empowered to make/interpret their own regulations in the US. There's some debate as to the degree to which they can do it, but it'd be difficult for them to function without some ability to do so. It's also nearly impossible for politicians to effectively build all the specifics into laws, since they're not experts in all the things they might have to regulate.

I can't speak for the US, but over here the laws are it. Where practically needed the laws regulate who, if anyone, can make more detailed regulations and the law limits the extent of  which they can do so. Individual agencies can thus have some room for regulating details, but it must always be within the laws outlines.

As for interpretation various agencies can certainly interpret the law as they find appropriate, but their interpretation is just that - their interpretation. (Which, I might add, sometimes seem to twist and slide over time due to some internal echo chamber effect). The correct interpretation is up to the courts - and over here many agencies have lost major court trials over their sometimes too wishful interpretation. 

I'm not sure the Royal Postal service is experts in the various stuff they move around either... I'd guess some lawyers came up with that on behalf of the postal service.

That said, having read some of the work that has gone into making certain laws over here, I have to say I have been positively surprised about how deep the work goes in preparing new laws. Among other things everyone can have a say on their view of the matter before the law is written, and the various views and angles will often be quoted in later work with the legal preparations. Thus, if you are a knife user and they want to make a new knife law you can make your arguments and views clear well ahead of any law passing.

[Tasky]

RELAX!!!

You CAN still send legal bladed items, so long as you meet the conditions specified.
This is on Royal Fail's own website:

https://www.royalmail.com/sites/royalmail.com/files/2024-03/bladed-items-sharp-objects-weapons-web-changes-rm-consumer-26-march-2024.pdf

Most on this forum likely live democracies and where the agreed arrangement is that politicians make the laws and regulations, courts judge and police enforces. If various public services are going to start implementing and enforce their own (random/ trendy) political policies within their scope of power this arrangement will become hollowed out.

Part of being in such a democracy is that we afford people the right to refuse a task that they feel would be too dangerous for them. In this case, Royal Fail are specific about which items are already illegal, but also follow with some very specific requirements for legal items, where the focus is primarily on keeping their employees safe.
There is no law that demands they ship such items and they are free to refuse anything they like, and yet they are still being pretty reasonable here.