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1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?

us Offline Swisster

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1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
on: June 06, 2022, 03:37:57 AM
Is there something to use on them like mineral oil or something that can keep them from becoming too brittle and cracking ? I figure the scales are porous because of what they are made of and can be kept from cracking but i don't know what to use on them.


us Offline Myron

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #1 on: June 06, 2022, 02:46:23 PM
I use Renaissance Wax.   It's easy to apply and useful for other things. 


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #2 on: June 07, 2022, 11:59:30 AM
Maybe contact Victorinox and see what they recommend?

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spam Offline comis

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #3 on: June 07, 2022, 04:38:29 PM
I use Renaissance Wax.   It's easy to apply and useful for other things. 
Ren Wax is really great for preserving old knives.

One quick question--would it work if the scales are celluloid?  I never really did figure out which vintage did they use celluloid scales on the Soldiers, and how best to differentiate them from their "fibre" scales.


us Offline Myron

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #4 on: June 07, 2022, 05:13:14 PM
I don't know either, Comis.  I can't imagine that it would hurt celluloid scales, but those things seem so mysterious anyway, what with their off-gassing of self-destructive vapors and all.... 

I love fibre scales, and they seem to respond really well to Ren Wax.  It would be interesting to see what Vx says though, as pfrsantos suggests. 


us Offline Explorer

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #5 on: June 07, 2022, 06:28:23 PM
I don't know either, Comis.  I can't imagine that it would hurt celluloid scales, but those things seem so mysterious anyway, what with their off-gassing of self-destructive vapors and all.... 

I love fibre scales, and they seem to respond really well to Ren Wax.  It would be interesting to see what Vx says though, as pfrsantos suggests.
Don’t wanna derail the thread however you mentioned offgassing and I had a question about what you mean.

I recently bought some 80s era SAKs that had been in a Vic case for many many years they were in new condition however all of the scales stunk of an extremely strong chemical like smell so much so that I had to take all the scales off and replace them otherwise the knives were fine it was just the scales that stunk. Is this the type of offgassing you’re talking about? Really curious about this thanks


us Offline Myron

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #6 on: June 07, 2022, 06:59:46 PM
Hi Explorer,

Well, it sounds like it, but on the other hand I don't think Victorinox was using celluloid in the 1980's for their standard red scales.  I'm sure someone here will know when exactly they switched to their proprietary "Cellidor" plastic, but I'm sure it was long before the 80's. 

But the circumstances you describe of a bunch of knives in closed storage in proximity with each other is the textbook scenario for celluloid off-gassing and self-destruction.   If you do a Google search on "celluloid knife handles off gassing" or similar you'll find tons of threads on the subject on AAPK and Blade Forums, among others.

Good luck!

Myron


us Offline Swisster

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #7 on: June 07, 2022, 09:40:41 PM
the question is what to use on fiber scales to prevent cracking and to keep them from becoming brittle and not about celluloid and Renwax is just a covering and doesn't really penetrate. Mineral oil is used on bone scales and other scales like horn to keep them from becoming brittle and wondering if it is okay to use on fiber scales.


us Offline Rich S

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #8 on: June 07, 2022, 09:46:42 PM
Since Victorinox has a life-time guarantee, I doubt there is much of a problem with scale decomposition (it would make the guarantee to expensive to fulfill I suspect).
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us Offline cody6268

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #9 on: June 07, 2022, 11:26:02 PM
Since Victorinox has a life-time guarantee, I doubt there is much of a problem with scale decomposition (it would make the guarantee to expensive to fulfill I suspect).

In the US at least, they won't repair M1908s, only replace them--which confuses me, as I've seen documentaries about Victorinox showing their repairmen redoing M1908s.

I asked them if they would rescale one I had and change the worn-out blade, and they said they didn't have the stuff here to fix it, and would send me an M2008/Trekker instead.


us Offline Myron

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #10 on: June 08, 2022, 12:25:13 AM
the question is what to use on fiber scales to prevent cracking and to keep them from becoming brittle and not about celluloid and Renwax is just a covering and doesn't really penetrate. Mineral oil is used on bone scales and other scales like horn to keep them from becoming brittle and wondering if it is okay to use on fiber scales.

Whoa, sorry Swisster; I think people were just trying to be helpful here.  I think your best bet at this point is to ask Victorinox. 


us Offline Swisster

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #11 on: June 08, 2022, 04:41:36 AM
probably correct to ask Victorinox because nobody has even attempted to address the question that was actually being asked about what solution that penetrates can be put on fiber scales to prevent cracking and brittleness. If I ask about pizza am I going to get a hamburger answer ? That is what seems to go on here and people aren't really interested in providing answer solutions but going off topic and giving opinions to things that weren't relevant to the question. It's king of ridiculous


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #12 on: June 08, 2022, 11:48:51 AM
probably correct to ask Victorinox because nobody has even attempted to address the question that was actually being asked about what solution that penetrates can be put on fiber scales to prevent cracking and brittleness. If I ask about pizza am I going to get a hamburger answer ? That is what seems to go on here and people aren't really interested in providing answer solutions but going off topic and giving opinions to things that weren't relevant to the question. It's king of ridiculous

You're absolutely right! Bunch of smurfs! If I were you, I'd never ask another question again and leave this smurfing forum! That'll show them!

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us Offline Explorer

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #13 on: June 08, 2022, 03:30:24 PM
Hi Explorer,

Well, it sounds like it, but on the other hand I don't think Victorinox was using celluloid in the 1980's for their standard red scales.  I'm sure someone here will know when exactly they switched to their proprietary "Cellidor" plastic, but I'm sure it was long before the 80's. 

But the circumstances you describe of a bunch of knives in closed storage in proximity with each other is the textbook scenario for celluloid off-gassing and self-destruction.   If you do a Google search on "celluloid knife handles off gassing" or similar you'll find tons of threads on the subject on AAPK and Blade Forums, among others.

Good luck!

Myron
Thank you Myron! I thought you would know. Appreciate your detailed description.
Cheers :cheers:


us Offline Myron

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #14 on: June 08, 2022, 11:48:51 PM
 :tu:


spam Offline comis

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #15 on: June 11, 2022, 06:22:04 PM
I don't know either, Comis.  I can't imagine that it would hurt celluloid scales, but those things seem so mysterious anyway, what with their off-gassing of self-destructive vapors and all.... 

I love fibre scales, and they seem to respond really well to Ren Wax.  It would be interesting to see what Vx says though, as pfrsantos suggests. 
Sorry for a much belated reply, and thanks to this.  I too probably should ask Vx about it, it long overdued.



Don’t wanna derail the thread however you mentioned offgassing and I had a question about what you mean.

I recently bought some 80s era SAKs that had been in a Vic case for many many years they were in new condition however all of the scales stunk of an extremely strong chemical like smell so much so that I had to take all the scales off and replace them otherwise the knives were fine it was just the scales that stunk. Is this the type of offgassing you’re talking about? Really curious about this thanks
Hi Explorer,

Well, it sounds like it, but on the other hand I don't think Victorinox was using celluloid in the 1980's for their standard red scales.  I'm sure someone here will know when exactly they switched to their proprietary "Cellidor" plastic, but I'm sure it was long before the 80's. 

But the circumstances you describe of a bunch of knives in closed storage in proximity with each other is the textbook scenario for celluloid off-gassing and self-destruction.   If you do a Google search on "celluloid knife handles off gassing" or similar you'll find tons of threads on the subject on AAPK and Blade Forums, among others.

Good luck!

Myron
Myron gave a great answer to this, and I think the real danger is those celluloid scales will off-gas and those are corrosive to anything in close proximity to that gas. 

That's why we often see green rust in liner/peen area since they are the closest to the scales.  Having said that, some folks still like how celluloid handles look and love to collect them--in that case, it's probably wise to set them in dark and well vented places away from the main collection, so it is easy to monitor how well they fair without causing damage the rest of the collection.


the question is what to use on fiber scales to prevent cracking and to keep them from becoming brittle and not about celluloid and Renwax is just a covering and doesn't really penetrate. Mineral oil is used on bone scales and other scales like horn to keep them from becoming brittle and wondering if it is okay to use on fiber scales.
AFAIK, there is nothing that could stop celluloid scales from deteriorating and it is impossible to predict when and how that would happen, that's the reason why I ask would anyone happen to know which years of the Soldier models were using them.  As for Ren wax, I think that's just a good friendly suggestion for preserving those vintage/historical pieces--many collectors would prefer to keep their historical pieces "as is" with minimum intervention as much as possible.  That's why Ren wax was a very popular product used by many museum worldwide for preservation.  Not all those who wander are lost, and sometimes by branching out a little, we walk a path less travelled. ;)


us Offline Swisster

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #16 on: June 12, 2022, 12:52:42 AM
and once again someone not addressing the question that was being asked about fiber scales. This was never a question about Celluloid or Renwax. It's a little annoying that these responses are not even remotely in alignment with the question that was being asked.  I am going to contact Victorinox for them not to know anything and get a I do not know answer from them but it's better than people going on about things that have nothing to do with the question being asked. Mineral oil will probably be okay to use on fiber scales as it is with bone, horn and stag antler scales. I'm wondering how many irrelevant responses can be made to this that have nothing to do with the topic again? WoW Really people !!!


nz Offline Sawl Goodman

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #17 on: June 12, 2022, 03:28:21 AM
and once again someone not addressing the question that was being asked about fiber scales. This was never a question about Celluloid or Renwax. It's a little annoying that these responses are not even remotely in alignment with the question that was being asked.  I am going to contact Victorinox for them not to know anything and get a I do not know answer from them but it's better than people going on about things that have nothing to do with the question being asked. Mineral oil will probably be okay to use on fiber scales as it is with bone, horn and stag antler scales. I'm wondering how many irrelevant responses can be made to this that have nothing to do with the topic again? WoW Really people !!!

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us Offline Fireman

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #18 on: June 12, 2022, 11:47:03 AM
I'm wondering how many irrelevant responses can be made to this that have nothing to do with the topic again? WoW Really people !!!

You could try google, like I just did:
collection and preservation of fiber evidence
preservation of Georgia cotton fiber
preservation of nerve fiber layer

As for me, I've never seen a 1908 in person, hence I have no useful experience or knowledge about scale preservation.  :)


ch Offline jaydar

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #19 on: June 12, 2022, 03:11:42 PM
The Fibre scales are strong and pretty stable.

The main issue is moisture quick dip in cold water and dry off no problem , warm water or long term immersion they will swell up and crack on the pins , when they shrink you see gaps and cracks.

Stick the knife in a drawer for 80 years and they can still look pretty mint.

If the scales look dry they soon shine up from just the oils on your hands


us Offline Aloha

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #20 on: June 12, 2022, 04:19:43 PM
 :think:

Not sure why a haughty reaction? 

Is there something to use on them like mineral oil or something that can keep them from becoming too brittle and cracking ? I figure the scales are porous because of what they are made of and can be kept from cracking but i don't know what to use on them.

Myron specifically said fiber scales respond well to Renwax.  He mentions he loves fiber scales and suggest a contacting Vic as pfrsantos says.   

MTO is known for topics going on tangents there is never intent to be disrespectful to the original question or post.  I'm sorry your question wasn't answered to your satisfaction however I felt Myron did answer it.
 

   
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us Offline Swisster

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Re: 1908 Soldier scales cracking prevention ?
Reply #21 on: June 15, 2022, 04:16:17 AM
I ended up using the mineral oil on the fiber scales and it absorbed it well and with no discoloration and seems to react like bone, horn and antler does. Renwax would seem okay to now use as a covering as a protectant but it's not great as a conditioner that penetrates and keeps scales from brittleness. Mineral oil works great but was unsure how it would react to fiber scales since I have never had knives other than SAK's with that type of scale. I have heard some plastics absorb mineral oil and it keeps them from becoming too brittle but I have always used it on bone and other natural type scales and it is a tried and true method on the natural material scales.


 

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