Dating in the 70ies (Champion C)

[J2000E]

Got this one home yesterday. Bought at local auction here in Sweden. Sellers father got it new. There is a clear Finnish connection as the seller had a Finnish name and the inlay "MARITIM" is a Finnish company in the boating business (since 1912).

Pictures are as it was on arrival - no cleaning yet. It will tidy up perfectly with some TLC. What drew me to it was its age, the condition (especially the clean and non oxidized liners) and of course the metal head tweezers.

I would date this one 1977 to 1979 (circa as always).

Clues - and correct me if I am off the charts. There is no bump on the saw spring (pre 1980), the style of small screwdriver, and the peening of the scissors screw.

The last clue - is there any consensus about when peening of this kind started/stopped?

I cannot say if the Victorinox inlay is nickel-silver or stainless.

What say yee?

[J2000E]

Here is an example of scissors screw peening:

The owner bought it in 1977:
"My Victorinox Swiss Army Knife, which I bought for $22 in the campground store at Colter Bay, Grand Teton Nat. Pk. on 07-17-1977."

Quote and picture from the net. The exact date and place makes it believable.



And my zoom of the above picture

[kirk13]

Can't offer you any information,  but its a beauty!

[Huntsman]

I would date this one 1977 to 1979 (circa as always).
What say yee?

I cannot say if the Victorinox inlay is nickel-silver or stainless.

My (in)experience is that NS is a bit yellower when not polished and SS is more shiny
Having said that the company inlay looks more SS - Which does not fit the NS>>SS switch date for the shield if the knife is 77>79

PS. Lovely old SAK you have there
It always amazes me how timeless Vic SAKs are and how they maintain their quality
This one is nearly 50 years old .... Crazy - Right?   

[J2000E]

:iagree:My (in)experience is that NS is a bit yellower when not polished and SS is more shiny
Having said that the company inlay looks more SS - Which does not fit the NS>>SS switch date for the shield if the knife is 77>79

PS. Lovely old SAK you have there
It always amazes me how timeless Vic SAKs are and how they maintain their quality
This one is nearly 50 years old .... Crazy - Right?   

Thanks for jumping in Huntsman - I started to think everyone on this forum had gone FB or Insta.

NS or SS inlay is maybe subordinate to the saw version and peening of scissors screw when it comes to dating this one.

Multitoolorg earlier (2018):

MiniChamp: s great work on the saw timeline



and kamakiri in the same thread:

"I also think the change for the two symmetrical teeth types happens c. '78/'79, based on my CAMPING and Hoffritz inlay study, where the bulk of samples have wood saws.  All the knives I can positively put in the c. '80 range already have the new saw and have a fairly even sample from the '78/'79 range so I'm fairly sure the transition happens there and likely in the middle, late '78 to early-mid '79. Confirmed by samples of late 'V1' Hoffritz inlays, where the old style may have been in a 'disposal' phase and already off from main line use. Also confirmed after plastic tweezer head transition c. '78."

So - this one has the pre 1979 saw and no bulge on the spring and a metal head tweezer. The former puts it in the late 70ies, the latter only a indication - as tweezers can be swapped.

The scales are to a high degree of certainty original to the knife. If the inlays are NS or SS are still to know.

I would like to hear if someone has more input to the peening of scissors screws. My own research (trawling the net) says it ended within this time period but I have no firm evidence.

[J2000E]

The plot thickens...

I took a deep dive into the resources here on MultiTool.

Jnoxyd wrote quite recently (I made the the text bold at one place):

Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #91 on: June 11, 2025, 01:59:31 PM
We all love to learn the year our knives were made and often use tool dating to help with that. Unfortunately, we don’t have exact factory documentation about the many changes made to tools, especially in the past, so we constantly have to refine our estimates of when certain tool changes occurred.
    Today I’d like to share some additional facts with you, and I hope you find them helpful.
     For a long time, we dated the transition for 91mm scissors from the old style (mod. 1951) with a single leaf spring to the new V-shaped leaf spring as happening in 1973 (or even 1975). However, in recent years, enthusiasts have found much evidence suggesting that production of the new type of scissors began around 1970. However, there was a large stock of old scissors, and they continued to be used until c.1973.
     Rémi Poupard showed several Champions from his collection with double-spring scissors, a +PAT stamp (which was discontinued in 1971), and a bail (!), supporting this timeline.
      There are several versions of the "new" (V-shaped leaf spring) scissors:
- Transition style scissors (named by Jazzbass) – c.1970–1976 (blunt scissor tips, small spring hole, small screw)
- Modern scissors with screw – 1976–1990 (sharp scissor tips, large spring hole, large screw)
- Modern scissors with screw and ‘guiding-groove' for the new ‘cup end’ spring  - 1990-1991
- Modern scissors with steel rivet – 1991–c.2007
- Modern scissors with bronze-colored rivet made of a nickel-silver alloy - c.2007-now

kamakiri wrote (also here on MT):

One of the most useful in the '70s is the change to the larger scissor screw. It is my current estimate that this is a 76Q4 change.

End of quotes.

And looky here - blunt scissor tips, small spring hole and smaller screw.






I revise my earlier 1977-1979 to 1976-77.

Not everything on the net is to be taken for a 100% truth - but between these two quoted gentlemen I do believe I am closing in on a good estimate of this Champion: s birth.

[z1913]

It reads like a good detective story! Exciting search, thanks for sharing.

[Huntsman]

When you say:  "the peening of scissors screws."

Do you mean the wee hole in the bottom end of the scissor screw on your SAK.
I cant say I have looked that closely (say compared to MiniC, KK, or JNOX*) - But I have never seen that dent before.

It looks to me like a frustrated user did a self-peen, as his scissors kept getting loose (I do know mine did that) 
Or do we suspect/know that this was a factory thing

* Yes we have some awesome members and resources here at MTo - Our master guru is Jazzbass of course - He may stop by to comment

[J2000E]

When you say:  "the peening of scissors screws."

Do you mean the wee hole in the bottom end of the scissor screw on your SAK.
I cant say I have looked that closely (say compared to MiniC, KK, or JNOX*) - But I have never seen that dent before.

It looks to me like a frustrated user did a self-peen, as his scissors kept getting loose (I do know mine did that) 
Or do we suspect/know that this was a factory thing

* Yes we have some awesome members and resources here at MTo - Our master guru is Jazzbass of course - He may stop by to comment

Yes - the little dent. As English is not my first language I checked my wording now:

Peen:
noun: peen; plural noun: peens; noun: pein; plural noun: peins
 the end of a hammer head opposite the face, typically wedge-shaped, curved, or spherical.
 "a ball-peen hammer"



It seems the older scissors (small screw, small spring hole, blunt tips) have these. One is shown in a post above. Here are pictures of two different knifes - pictures that I have borrowed from the net (kamakiri owns them I believe).




Hence my original question - does anyone know when they started doing it and when they stopped? It seems like it stopped with these "- Transition style scissors (named by Jazzbass) – c.1970–1976 (blunt scissor tips, small spring hole, small screw)"

But when did they start? Please check your blunt tip scissors gentlemen 

edit:
These two versions of Champion A that I have  (awl is the big difference) has the even older type of scissors. None of them are peened (spelling?) - or if they are in any way, it does not show.

[Huntsman]

Yep - Apologies - I was not questioning the word or use of English - Exactly the correct word   

What I was questioning was the fact they did peening in the factory - As I had never seen it - But I am no expert like KK, JB or JNOX
So the dent (pardon the pun ) is in my knowledge/experience - Not the use of the word!

However I am going to check the scissors on my older SAKs now, when I get the chance 

[J2000E]

Absolutely no reason for apologies. I am humble when it comes to a potential language barrier. I often wonder how my written English comes thru. It is difficult in ones one language to get nuances thru in writing. In another language even more so...

Peening... At some time one "n" will be left out by mistake and it gets a totally different meaning... 

I guess many of us has stared at the slotted end of the screw trying to figure out if it is small or smaller. The other side has not got the same attention.

This is up for auction here locally right now. Blunt ends and black spring. And peening. I will put in a bid for this Champion C.




And a Climber found on the net:



A Woodsman from the net:



I believe there are enough blunt tipped - peened screw, examples out there to be able to say - they cannot be home-peened.

It would be really nice if some of the real detail-masters could come forth and add their insight in when they started doing this. Was it done on all of the blunt tip-version? Or did they start without and then after a while had to address a problem?

[J2000E]

.

[J2000E]

Double post deleted

[J2000E]

What am I doing wrong...!?

At this rate my post count will soar...

[pfrsantos]

What am I doing wrong...!?

At this rate my post count will soar...

You're probably hitting the Post button a few times, because it doesn't show the post immediately after you click it. Wait some time before you click a second time.

[J2000E]

Bumping my old thread as @jnoxyd has made this nice diagram of scissors evolution:

The thread is :
SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources

Here’s  a diagram showing the evolution of scissors on 91mm Victorinox knives. Your comments are welcome.

(Image removed from quote.)

Inserting the picture from jnoxyd here:



Mine being the "variant 2" - It seems my Champion "C" might be even earlier than I thought - now estimated to 1975-76. I like that - a 50 year old!

[Tuisto]

J200E, you wanna hear something funny (because you mentioned English as a second language and a bit of confusion over the verb peen)? It's a verb with no solid etymology but was actually first attested in Old Swedish pæna 'pound iron with a hammer'. The English form must have been borrowed from North Germanic at some point before the Great Vowel Shift, since it's spelt with the -ee-, but pronounced /i/. I just thought it was cool that the word is first attested in Swedish and is ultimately almost certainly a North Germanic lemma in origin.

[J2000E]

Etymology is fascinating and pondering about words, their history and meaning is a favourite pastime of mine.

The influences going back and forth between English, German, French - as languages - and the older "Scandinavian" is very interesting.

We had a very fine and poetic word - "vindöga" that became window in English and we left it there just to pick up "fönster" from the German - Fenster.

Often when I travel abroad I get insights in my own language... Sitting in some sort of public transport in Spain I read the sign "menos valido"... less valid and started to think about the word "invalid"... in valid. It shook me up a bit as I - when young was tought the word and its uses in Swedish without actually thinking about its origin.

Not a day goes by without etymology being on my mind.

[Tuisto]

Oh very cool! I'm glad to hear that some people are fascinated by it. It's actually my job; sometimes I get a bit bummed out because I feel like I should have chosen a different profession (where I'd actually have job prospects once I finish my degree), so it always makes me happy to hear that someone's interested by it. Here are some of my North Germanic etymological dictionaries. The first one is decent but not great. The author also had a...colourful history (not that that has any impact on the quality of the scholarship, but still). The second is actually the standard etymological reference work for North Germanic (and thus, by extension, Old Norse/Old Icelandic even though it's not specifically a dictionary of Old Norse/Old Icelandic. And the next photo is of the two best grammars of Old Norse/Old Icelandic — one for Runic Norse and the other for Old Icelandic. I've actually taught the latter at a graduate level. And now I've thoroughly derailed the thread.

[Reinier]

Very interesting. I really like the RobWords Youtube channel.
J. de Vries sounds like a Dutch name by the way.

[AzteCypher]

A friend and I used to compare old Moorish words and Spanish as he was originally from Pakistan.  We always had interesting conversations discussing the similarities and how some words deviated a bit.

[Huntsman]

Thanks Reinier - You have reminded me about this chap.

One of his videos about the phonetic alphabet  popped up on my screen - It's absolutely brilliant and he is very engaging and extremely well informed



For myself I am very interested in words too - But more from the perspective of  language: ie metaphors; figures of speech; clever, colourful  and articulate use of language etc etc.   
[Note: 'etc etc' - being an example of a bad use of language !!   ]

[Tuisto]

Yes, he was Dutch. University of Leiden is actually one of the most prestigious schools for Indo-European historical philology (not quite historical linguistics over there, but solidly philology). There are many Dutchmen that are at the forefront of our community. In fact one of the reasons I went over there to study was that, at the time, there were no universities in North America that were teaching certain languages that are necessary to study to become an expert in Indo-European historical linguistics. Unfortunately, de Vries had some very ugly opinions on race and was a collaborator with the Nazi regime. So, after the war he was imprisoned, fired from University of Leiden, expelled from the learned societies, and effectively barred from teaching at any institution above the level of a secondary school by the Dutch government. Here are some other books written by Dutch scholars that are foundational works in our field. And the three dictionaries in the last picture are part of the Leiden Indo-European Etymological Dictionary series.

[J2000E]

Oh very cool! I'm glad to hear that some people are fascinated by it. It's actually my job; sometimes I get a bit bummed out because I feel like I should have chosen a different profession (where I'd actually have job prospects once I finish my degree), so it always makes me happy to hear that someone's interested by it. Here are some of my North Germanic etymological dictionaries. The first one is decent but not great. The author also had a...colourful history (not that that has any impact on the quality of the scholarship, but still). The second is actually the standard etymological reference work for North Germanic (and thus, by extension, Old Norse/Old Icelandic even though it's not specifically a dictionary of Old Norse/Old Icelandic. And the next photo is of the two best grammars of Old Norse/Old Icelandic — one for Runic Norse and the other for Old Icelandic. I've actually taught the latter at a graduate level. And now I've thoroughly derailed the thread.

I understand the feeling of choice of profession/education - as I did not get to use my education much (architect - and I have worked as it shorter than the education was...). But I have never regretted it - education in all its forms is never wasted. Now I am retired and can educate myself as much as I want to without having to take "usefulness" or career into count.

Dutch is extra interesting! Being in the middle of everything they are generally very good at languages. And their mix, language wise, makes up for something special. I have studied some languages and yet I do not understand more of spoken Dutch than Finnish (OK - a little more than Finnish... ) BUT I can read Dutch almost unhindred! It is really a good mix!

(And I do understand some written Finnish too - as all information on food packages in Finland has to be in both Finnish and Swedish. Swedish is an official minority language in Finland. My mother is in that minority and our summer house is in a part of Finland that is totally Swedish speaking. Me reading on every package in two languages from early age - I know a lot of Finnish words for food. I cannot put them together though.... )

[Reinier]

Yesterday I saw another tv show where Dutch characters were talking German

Dutch == Nederlands
Pennsylvania Dutch == sort of German, but not Dutch
Deutsch == German

[J2000E]

Yesterday I saw another tv show where Dutch characters were talking German

Dutch == Nederlands
Pennsylvania Dutch == sort of German, but not Dutch
Deutsch == German

Haha... Swedish and Swiss is not the same thing either...

[Reinier]

But Austria and Australia are. Right?

[AzteCypher]

 

[Tuisto]

Pennsylvania Dutch and Dutch Dutch are actually both descended from very closely related dialects of West German — the former from Old High Franconian and the latter from Old Low Franconian. And modern German is also West Germanic but descended from Old High German. I actually know all of the ancient varieties of these languages. I've tried to show a rough outline of the interrelatedness of the Germanic languages on paper here in the first photo. The second is a photo of my Old Germanic grammars section of my grammars shelf (and then a photo of my cherished Old High German grammar anthology from 1987 in two volumes). And then a photo of my former professor's book on Proto-Indo-European and its development into Proto-Germanic (which I believe to be the best work on Indo-European linguistics ever done but I may be biased...).