Thoughts on the Reylight Pineapple Mini / comparison of v1 and v3

[nate j]

It’s fairly common I think. If you want to have a flashlight that operates with just one button - which is good for me, KISS! - but has several light levels there’s only a few options. Of those this (reverse clicky) is the one I prefer. But others will differ of course.

I’d argue that, while one-button (or twist or rotary switch only with no buttons) looks cleanest and simplest, two-button is actually the easiest and most intuitive UI for a multi-mode flashlight.

On the best of the two-button lights I have, the tail switch turns the light on/off, and maybe has a momentary on function.  When the light is on, the side switch cycles through modes.  The light has mode memory, so if you’re using the same mode repeatedly, you don’t have to cycle through modes every time.  That really covers the basic operations, with the exception of things like “hidden” and programming modes.  These are lights I can easily hand to a child (or someone else with only a basic knowledge of flashlights), and they can turn the light on, use it for what they need, and turn it off, without needing instruction.  (This is especially true if I’m able to pre-select a suitable output level for them, usually medium or low.)

In contrast, single-button multi-mode lights often have more complex control sequences…
- full press vs. half press
- short/quick press vs. long press
- press and hold; pressing and holding for different lengths of time may yield different results, e.g. “hold for more than 0.5 but less than 1.5 seconds to…”
- single press vs. double press vs. triple press
- etc.


Of the single-button/single-switch multi-mode lights I’ve had, I think the following were the most intuitive to use (in no particular order):

- Rotary switch is dead simple to use.  Just rotate it to the desired output; repeat as needed.  Rotate to off position when done.  The big disadvantages of this are (1) unless you just happened to want the mode right next to “off”, you were cycling through multiple modes every time, both when turning the light on and when turning it off; (2) while it was possible to operate the rotary switch with one hand, doing so was a bit fiddly/tricky, and 2H operation was much preferred.

- Quick press to turn on/off; press and hold to cycle through modes.  Biggest problem with this light was accidental/inadvertent activation, but that could have been mitigated with a better quality/designed switch IMO.

- Long press to turn on/off; quick press to cycle through modes.  Maybe the best of the one-button options.  But as silly as it may sound, that short on/off delay got annoying.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I got home late last night and didn't test this before going to bed. Sorry for the delay.

This morning when I got up I tested this and yes, there are indeed multiple levels of brightness.  I am surprised, but not at the light having multiple levels, I am surprised that I didn't find them.

I have had enough lights in my time that operate like this, and I know how this works and yet for some reason, entirely due to user error, I couldn't get it to go brighter.

I have it now and my happiness at having a functional light outweighs my embarrassment at not figuring it out sooner.

But, this is also why we always give something serious testing and don't really do just a simple "unboxing and feel" review.   

I have an electrician coming to the house this morning so I feel like there will be some opportunities to test it out. 

Def

[fullbreakfast]

I got home late last night and didn't test this before going to bed. Sorry for the delay.

This morning when I got up I tested this and yes, there are indeed multiple levels of brightness.  I am surprised, but not at the light having multiple levels, I am surprised that I didn't find them.

I have had enough lights in my time that operate like this, and I know how this works and yet for some reason, entirely due to user error, I couldn't get it to go brighter.

I have it now and my happiness at having a functional light outweighs my embarrassment at not figuring it out sooner.

But, this is also why we always give something serious testing and don't really do just a simple "unboxing and feel" review.   

I have an electrician coming to the house this morning so I feel like there will be some opportunities to test it out. 

Def

Glad you don't have a dud!

Let us know how you get on with it.

[fullbreakfast]

I’ve eyed them up, but haven’t pulled the trigger.

While I think they are cool looking, I’m incredibly leery of any flashlight manufacturer who doesn’t post the objective performance specs of their lights on their website.

The objective specs on flashlight manufacturers web sites are to an extent part of marketing, and aren’t necessarily accurate. If you want to know lumen outputs etc then a good review site like zeroair.org is a better source. There isn’t much info on the Reylight sight, but there isn’t any BS either.

Even aside from actual BS, lumen output can vary depending on how you measure it, what batteries are being used and their condition, etc. And the headline number may of course reduce over time. So none of this is exactly a constant.

There is a well known manufacturer of flashlights that has a very nice web site with every statistic you could ask for. I’ve had several of their lights, and two of them have failed within a year and ended up being thrown away. Reylight has a poor web site but the lights are made to last, the light output is good based on the batteries used, and the parts that can fail are readily replaceable.

[nate j]

The objective specs on flashlight manufacturers web sites are to an extent part of marketing, and aren’t necessarily accurate. If you want to know lumen outputs etc then a good review site like zeroair.org is a better source. There isn’t much info on the Reylight sight, but there isn’t any BS either.

Even aside from actual BS, lumen output can vary depending on how you measure it, what batteries are being used and their condition, etc. And the headline number may of course reduce over time. So none of this is exactly a constant.

There is a well known manufacturer of flashlights that has a very nice web site with every statistic you could ask for. I’ve had several of their lights, and two of them have failed within a year and ended up being thrown away. Reylight has a poor web site but the lights are made to last, the light output is good based on the batteries used, and the parts that can fail are readily replaceable.

If someone is going to intentionally be dishonest, no standard or spec is going to fix that.

However, if ANSI FL1 tests are correctly conducted and accurate results provided, that is an objective standard and should allow for an “apples-to-apples” comparison of performance (at least under specific test conditions).

Now, I’ll be the first to admit that FL1 specs don’t tell the full story.  It’s important to understand how those tests are run and what the numbers actually mean (and don’t mean).  Additional data, such as runtime/output charts, color temperature, etc., can help paint a more complete picture.

Does posting FL1 specs guarantee that a manufacturer supplies lights that are good quality, robust, durable, etc.?
Certainly not.

Do I find it valuable and helpful when a manufacturer posts FL1 specs, runtime/output charts, etc.?
Yes, I do.  This information helps me understand how the light will most likely perform, evaluate how it might compare to other lights I already own and or am considering, and determine whether or not it might meet my needs.

Does not posting specs mean a manufacturer’s lights are junk?
No, not necessarily; no more than posting specs guarantees quality.  But it does make it more difficult for me to evaluate if they are something I might be interested in or not.

When I don’t see specs posted, it also makes me wonder (perhaps fairly, perhaps unfairly) if the company is loathe to share them because they aren’t very good/competitive.  Or they didn’t bother to run the tests at all?


I also wonder (again, perhaps fairly, perhaps not), if you’re in the flashlight business today and you’re not willing to compete on specs, what exactly are you trying to compete on?

Looking cool? (Always a bonus, but for me functionality comes first.)

Reputation? (Even makers that were once the standard others aspired to, like Maglite and Surefire, are posting at least some specs now.)

Price?  (Probably not, if we’re talking about Ti lights)

A wing and a prayer? (Maybe)

[Grant Lamontagne]

I've had a bit more time to play with this one and I am warming up to it a bit.  I have discovered that one of my frustrations was that the light was in Demo mode and turning off after 30 seconds.  It has been a while since I had to deal with a demo mode and it took me a bit of effort to find out how to fix it.

It reminds me of the old days where you had to click the button thirty seven times to enter into the programming mode, and if you clicked thirty six or thirty eight times, you were smurf out of luck.  Then a series of fast, slow and click and holds allowed you to get through the menu and change settings.

I hate that.

And the Pineapple also has to do that, although it's only 8 clicks to get into program mode, and there are only four options once you are in.  All you can basically do is turn each mode on and off, which makes it a bit easier, and the modes are identified by the the flash pattern.

It's not a great feature, nor is it easily understood, but chances are you won't need to use it that often- it's kind of like a toilet.  They are kind of heavy but the real problem is there's nowhere convenient to grab and lift them from, but that's largely because most manufacturers figure you are going to put them somewhere and leave them there.

Each menu item is done by what the manufacturer calls a blink and a buzz.  One slow flash (aka Blink) followed by faster flashing for a couple of seconds (the buzz) is Mode 1, which is Mode Group.  Click during the one blink and buzz and you can change how many brightness modes you have to go through.  There's a bunch of them and I haven't figured out how to change that one yet.  I'm happy with the default four brightness settings, now that I know how to adjust them.

BTW, I still say the button takes a lot of getting used to, to find the right "half click" to cycle the brightness settings.  Again, if this was your only light, or your usual light, you'd get used to that and it's fine.

Mode 2 is the Memory Mode, and you can just turn this on and off.  It determines whether the light will remember the last light level you had it on and returns to that setting when you turn it on, or starts back at the beginning of the cycle.  Apparently I still have it turned off as it starts at the lowest setting each time, and to be honest, I don't have a preference for this setting, so I am happy to just leave it at the default. I like knowing it starts at the dimmest setting, so if I hand it to someone they don't get their retinas seared out. 

I also really don't like this function as the dimmest setting is far too dim to really be useful, and that breaks my flashlight rule of putting it in someone's hands and they can make light a useable amount of light come out of it.  If I get really bored and want to fiddle with it later I may switch it to two or three modes only, and get rid of the dimmest setting (or two) because a flashlight that isn't spitting out light is just a carrying case for batteries.

The next mode is the Moonlight mode, which allows you to turn on a hidden, secret, even dimmer mode.  I think we all know where I stand on getting even less light out of a flashlight that I already determined was far too dim in the first place.

The last mode (four blinks and a buzz) is the Demo Mode and I'll say it took me a few tries to turn it off, but eventually I got it and now when I turn the light on, it stays on.

Which probably means I'll accidentally turn it on in my pocket and leave it on and kill the battery, but thems the breaks.

The end result is that this light is not as bad as I initially feared, which is great because honestly, I really hate reviewing absolute crap products.  Finding some bright points (no pun intended.... or is it?) on this one really makes me feel better about it. 

It still doesn't really meet my flashlight rules:

1- Someone who is not familiar with it needs to be able to make a useable amount of light come out without fiddling with it or needing instruction.
2- Batteries need to be either easily replaceable with standard cells (AA or AAA, possibly 9V or C cells) or be easily rechargeable, preferably by USB-C since we are all likely to have that to charge our phones already.

It meets #2, but #1 it kind of skirts.  Yes, I can modify the programming (allegedly) to alter it so it is bright enough, and I will try to fix that, so really, it does technically meet both.

Since it meets both rules, it's a good light.

But, it falls down on a few things.

The button is fiddly.  It requires some technique and I don't want to spend time training myself to use my flashlight effectively.  I want to just use it.  This isn't quite as fiddly as the Wuben G5, but it mostly goes the other way.  While the Wuben has too much going on with switches and knobs and buttons and dials and feels like it was assembled out of spare parts in a mad scientist lab, the Pineapple Mk III feels like it needs a few extra knobs or a better quality button, especially if you need to access the program menu to do something silly like turn off Demo Mode.

I also feel like $35 is too much for this light.  Maybe the titanium ones feel better than the aluminum one I have, but honestly, this feels like a dollar store special- which is great, if it's from the dollar store, and priced accordingly.  Unfortunately, at $35 USD, I feel like it is lacking, and there are better options, like the OClip Pro (don't get the Ultra unless you like scrubbing everything you own) for around the same money.

It reminds me a lot of the old Leatherman flashlights, which I think were made by Fenix before Leatherman bought LED Lenser and rebranded them into Leatherman flashlights.  Fenix made some great lights and I was a huge fan of them.  There was one (and I don't recall the model name/number, sorry) that used a AAA battery that I think was very similar to this one, although to be honest, I liked it a lot better. It was a very similar form factor.

That having been said, I do very much like the glow in the dark ring on the Pineapple Mark III, and I wish more flashlight companies would do that.

All in all, if you like this form factor I can see the appeal of this one, especially if you get the fancier version.  It's just not really my cup of tea, but I do believe it is a good (enough) light, provided you are willing to try and figure out the programing.

Def

[nate j]

Interesting.

Sounds like this light suffers from too high a ratio of options to buttons, which results in overly complex sequences.

One of my concerns with flashlights is that I’ll be out in the woods somewhere with no way to look up the manual, and get a light “stuck” in programming mode, or demo mode, or some other useless mode, and not have an intuitive way to get the light back to a usable mode.  Some of this is on me to understand how my lights work, but some of it is about sticking to lights that are simpler (or at least more intuitive) to operate.

“If only this flashlight had a demo mode…”
- No one, ever

[Grant Lamontagne]

You definitely summed it up nicely- too many functions, not enough interface.

However, you can be reasonably assured that you aren't likely to accidentally put this one in programming mode by accident unless you are struck by lightning or something, in which case I feel like you have bigger problems. 

And yeah, I understand the need for a demo mode in the store or something (and even then, only in boutique style stores where you get to actually handle something first- this wouldn't apply to online sales or clam packs in big box stores) but maybe they ship all of them in normal, every day use mode and not have to subject everyone who buys one to having to try and figure out why the light keeps shutting off.

Demo mode isn't necessary for 99.9% of the users out there (and yes, that's a conservative figure I am sure!) so why ship it in that mode as a default?

And that's not a shot at the Reylight- I have had OLights and several other brands suffer the same issue.

Def