Confiscation of firearms in America

[Anthony]

There have been outright bans on firearms in many countries, to the point where guns were actually taken and destroyed by the government.  I'd like to imagine America would be able to hold out and not roll over for such laws, but is that exactly what citizens of those other countries said?  That it could never happen to them?

This topic came up on local radio and there were callers for more than an hour on it, many saying they'd actually refuse officials who came to their home to "releive" them of their guns.  Some said they'd fight back and die free.  All sounded of sound mind and rational, many said they had families, many sounded young, but they'd rather be killed then have that right taken away.  But then again, saying something is different than actually carrying it out...

This vid is pretty much NRA propaganda, but actual video of an old woman being beat to the ground by police so they could get her gun doesn't look too good (about 1:00 in)  There are "stories" in the video of police smashing guns in front of their owners, and holding boaters at gunpoint while they take their rifles.  I'd like to know what those in charge down there after Katrina would use as an excuse for this.  I wonder if any of these officers were prepared to actually kill someone down there.

[ducktapehero]

I doubt very many would fight. Of course there'd be a few who went down shooting but the average American wouldn't. The average American doesn't even know what TRUE freedom is. They just want to feel safe, secure and entertained.

[RaptorMan]

I would not die for the Gov coming to my house and doing that but I can guarantee they would only get a couple of my firearms. Leaving my family is not worth a gun in my eyes. Now if it was a typical citizen trying to pull this then they would get the business end of my semi auto.

Some may not agree but i cherish my guns but my family even more.

[Mr. Whippy]

What I cannot fathom is why the Brits and Europeans in general would allow themselves to be entirely disarmed--guns, knives, loud voices whatever.  After being controlled by "Royals" for centuries, why allow another form of government to control someone's life to the same extent?

It's like they prefer to be "kept by" the government rather than being in control of the government.

Very strange psychology if you ask me...

[I'm Still Bison]

This all brings to mind the early and mid '90's when the media was fudging it's collective frillies at the thoughts of the militia movement.

[american lockpicker]

I know if the government comes for my guns I'm going to resist.

[Mr. Whippy]

I know if the government comes for my guns I'm going to resist.

...it's for your own good, trust me.

[Flash]

I love the editing.....you don't actually see what happened immediately before she was rushed.

For all we know she may have raised her gun in the Officers direction and he reacted as we all would

However, I wish we did not have the FX ban.  All I am allowed is a Shotgun 

[I'm Still Bison]

  As with everything,editing is a wonderful tool if you want to put your own spin on anything.The truth is never as crystal clear as we'd want it to be.Anything that touches on what we in the US regard as being a constitutional right is guaranteed to be a lightning rod and bring out some very emotionally charged feelings.
 For myself,I only ask that all of us think out what we want to say in this thread,we have a great bunch of people on this forum,any of whom I'd welcome into my house anytime.Let's keep MTO a friendly place.
   

[Mike]

There's a lot I could say about this. But since the Internet is wide open, I feel just enough paranoia to not say much on this issue. What I will say is this, resistance comes in many forms and they can only get what they know about. Nuff said.

Mike

[DaveK]

What I cannot fathom is why the Brits and Europeans in general would allow themselves to be entirely disarmed--guns, knives, loud voices whatever.  After being controlled by "Royals" for centuries, why allow another form of government to control someone's life to the same extent?

It's like they prefer to be "kept by" the government rather than being in control of the government.

Very strange psychology if you ask me...

Actually, many European countries (including the UK) haven't been "controlled by Royals" since before firearms were invented. The only difference between your government and mine is that yours has the right to bear arms in it's constitution, and mine doesn't. Maybe if guns had been around it would have been different!

Equally, Britons weren't "disarmed", they got what they wanted and what they voted for. They wanted rid of firearms and now they want rid of knives.
I find the idea that we are being oppressed fanciful, the majority are getting what they want.

[cgk]

I love the editing.....you don't actually see what happened immediately before she was rushed.

For all we know she may have raised her gun in the Officers direction and he reacted as we all would

However, I wish we did not have the FX ban.  All I am allowed is a Shotgun 

That was my first thought, they grabbed her because she was armed not because they were forcefully seizing arms.  While I do believe we need to protect our right to bear arms, the scenes explained in that video DO NOT show a true seizure.  The police made mistakes and the guns were GIVEN BACK.  In one case the weapons were destroyed, in that case the victim said the police were not following the book.  The police acted badly in that case (there are bad apples) but it was not the government seizing arms. 

I am a member of the NRA, I do believe in the right to bear arms, but I believe the video was more propaganda than reality.  But it never hurts to watch for deteriorating rights. 

[Mike]

Here is an interesting link of "Notable Quotes" on this topic.

http://www.constitution.org/cons/quotes01.htm

Here is one:
"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible."

    — Senator Hubert H. Humprey (D-Minnesota)

And some good quotes from Thomas Jefferson

http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/TJ.html

Here is one:
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

  --- Thomas Jefferson

Mike

[american lockpicker]

This is a queation for American cops only. If there was a Nationwide ban on weapons would the police really seize them? Quite a few cops I know are active in the NRA but if it came down to following orders or losing their jobs how would they act.

[Mr. Whippy]

What I cannot fathom is why the Brits and Europeans in general would allow themselves to be entirely disarmed--guns, knives, loud voices whatever.  After being controlled by "Royals" for centuries, why allow another form of government to control someone's life to the same extent?

It's like they prefer to be "kept by" the government rather than being in control of the government.

Very strange psychology if you ask me...

Actually, many European countries (including the UK) haven't been "controlled by Royals" since before firearms were invented. The only difference between your government and mine is that yours has the right to bear arms in it's constitution, and mine doesn't. Maybe if guns had been around it would have been different!

Equally, Britons weren't "disarmed", they got what they wanted and what they voted for. They wanted rid of firearms and now they want rid of knives.
I find the idea that we are being oppressed fanciful, the majority are getting what they want.

Dave, this is my point.  Do you think it's right to outlaw handguns and locking blade knives?  If not, do you think the majority has a right to impose their view on you?  In the US, the constitiution is designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

Imagine if the fundamentalist Islamists had a voting majority.  Would you think it right for them to vote in Islamic law as primary?  The same principal applies to this, IMO.

[cgk]

This is a queation for American cops only. If there was a Nationwide ban on weapons would the police really seize them? Quite a few cops I know are active in the NRA but if it came down to following orders or losing their jobs how would they act.

Excellent question.  I already enforce laws I do not necessarily agree with.  I have stood holding back protesters I agree with.  The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

So, yes I would seize guns.  Thats why I am a member of an organization that seeks to legally prevent such activity.

[Pacu]

Here in Texas everyone i know is a gun fanatic and has a "stockpile" of weapons and ammo. Seems everytime a democrat gets elected folks here go on a buying spree stocking up for .....??

as for me no one needs to know what i have or don't have

[Flash]

What I cannot fathom is why the Brits and Europeans in general would allow themselves to be entirely disarmed--guns, knives, loud voices whatever.  After being controlled by "Royals" for centuries, why allow another form of government to control someone's life to the same extent?

It's like they prefer to be "kept by" the government rather than being in control of the government.

Very strange psychology if you ask me...

Actually, many European countries (including the UK) haven't been "controlled by Royals" since before firearms were invented. The only difference between your government and mine is that yours has the right to bear arms in it's constitution, and mine doesn't. Maybe if guns had been around it would have been different!

Equally, Britons weren't "disarmed", they got what they wanted and what they voted for. They wanted rid of firearms and now they want rid of knives.
I find the idea that we are being oppressed fanciful, the majority are getting what they want.

Actually Dave...I did not vote this Government in, so THEY do not speak for me.

In fact, more people in England voted Conservative in the last election BUT because of the Welsh, Irish and Scottish vote Labour are the ruling party in GB.

Now what really sucks is that there is a Scottish Parliament, a Welsh Assembly but no one exists to represent the ENGLISH vote.

[Pacu]

oh yea   one should join the NRA, GOA, and get your concealed carry if your state of country allows it.

[Mike]

This is a queation for American cops only. If there was a Nationwide ban on weapons would the police really seize them? Quite a few cops I know are active in the NRA but if it came down to following orders or losing their jobs how would they act.

Excellent question.  I already enforce laws I do not necessarily agree with.  I have stood holding back protesters I agree with.  The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

So, yes I would seize guns.  Thats why I am a member of an organization that seeks to legally prevent such activity.

As a civilian, I recognize the fact that law enforcement officers are hired to enforce the law. I find no fault with that and do not have a problem with those doing their jobs. So, having said that I would do (am doing) what I could to allow them to do their jobs but still have an ace (or more) hidden out of the way. Around where I live, they (LEO's) would follow the letter of the law and go no further. In other words, if they were told to search all homes and out buildings, they would. But they wouldn't go searching the entire property. They would not harm those who "cooperated". It would be a wink-wink-nod-nod type of un-said thing. Why? Because I live in a small town, and those doing their jobs by day, would be the same ones resisting at night along side the civilians who "cooperated" during the day. We are neighbors and friends and would do what we could together, if this came about.

I am thankful that I live in a community that still allows kids to carry a pocket knife to school. It says something about folks around here.


Mike

[DaveK]

Dave, this is my point.  Do you think it's right to outlaw handguns and locking blade knives?  

No.

If not, do you think the majority has a right to impose their view on you?  

Well yes, That's the definition of democracy isn't it?

In the US, the constitiution is designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

That's one way of looking at it. It does presume that the majority are tyrants though. Can that be right?

Imagine if the fundamentalist Islamists had a voting majority.  Would you think it right for them to vote in Islamic law as primary?  The same principal applies to this, IMO.

I agree, the same principle applies. In a true democracy, the majority view should prevail surely?

@Flash - Neither did I mate, but we are in a minority.

[Gareth]

What I cannot fathom is why the Brits and Europeans in general would allow themselves to be entirely disarmed--guns, knives, loud voices whatever.  After being controlled by "Royals" for centuries, why allow another form of government to control someone's life to the same extent?

It's like they prefer to be "kept by" the government rather than being in control of the government.

Very strange psychology if you ask me...

I was going to bit my tongue but I do think I need to say something to that.  We weren't "disarmed" because we weren't "armed" in the first place.  Even before the ban on pistols (which I was against BTW) nobody legally held a pistol with home or personal defence in mind.  If you look at our crime stats then I have to say I rather feel safer living here, safe to the point that I don't feel the need to lock my front door at night.

We live in a Democracy and how that works is that the majority get what they want, whether I like it or not.  If I don't like what the current Government is doing them I can vote for someone else or leave the country.  Exactly the same choice you have.

[DaveK]

Thanks Gareth - I was beginning to think I was on my own there!

[Gareth]

Thanks Gareth - I was beginning to think I was on my own there!

Quite all right Dave. 

[Mike]

I thought this thread was about Confiscation of firearms in America?

Mike

[gafftapegreenia]

I'm sure I'm on a bunch of government lists already for a variety or reasons.

Being on this site is probably one of them.......crazy bunch of independent do-it-yourself types.



I have a bunch of my own thought out personal beliefs but I'm not going to dare start an internet flame war.

[DaveK]

I don't think there'll be a flame war. We can disagree yet respect each other can't we?

[cgk]

I'm sure I'm on a bunch of government lists already for a variety or reasons.

Being on this site is probably one of them.......crazy bunch of independent do-it-yourself types.



I have a bunch of my own thought out personal beliefs but I'm not going to dare start an internet flame war.

Yeah, this is getting pretty heavy.  I think Ill go watch some Family Guy clips....good ole' Stewie will bring me around.

[Flash]

Great thing about this site is that we can politely disagree.

Our mutual respect for each makes an internet flame war an impossibility around here
 
(One of the few sites I can say this about)

[Mike]

Great thing about this site is that we can politely disagree.

Our mutual respect for each makes an internet flame war an impossibility around here
 
(One of the few sites I can say this about)

Exactly! It's because of this mutual respect that makes intelligent, thoughtful and respectful debate possible. Even lively debate is possible because of this without anyone flaming anyone.   

Mike