Confiscation of firearms in America

[cgk]

Great thing about this site is that we can politely disagree.

Our mutual respect for each makes an internet flame war an impossibility around here
 
(One of the few sites I can say this about)

Exactly! It's because of this mutual respect that makes intelligent, thoughtful and respectful debate possible. Even lively debate is possible because of this.   

Mike

Your both wrong...piss-off!!

I am sorry I can not stay serious for more than five minutes straight.  Have a great day (or night) guys!!

[Whoey]

Your voice is a far greater arm than any other... you will always have the right to bear that arm. At least I hope they don't take away that right too...

[Flash]

Your voice is a far greater arm than any other... you will always have the right to bear that arm. At least I hope they don't take away that right too...

Obvious joke about my Semi auto Franchi 12 gauge beating your arm 

[Anthony]

I do realize that clip I posted is a propaganda peice..I'd like to see some interviews with the police cheifs and officers, although I don't know what they could say that would make removing firearms from licenced citizens "OK"...even if they intended to give them back.  And should the officers involved in knocking down that old woman have even gotten that far anyways?  As human beings they let it escalate that far to where a 300lb man has to knock a 100 lb woman to the ground?  Anyone else would have been arrested and put on trial, but because it was a police officer it's ok. 

I just get the feeling that law abiding citizens are thought of as criminals first, then they have to prove they are not later on in court.  What good is the right to bear arms if it can be taken away and given back out when the police think it's right?

BTW I'm glad we can go back and forth discussing this without getting too rowdy.

[J-sews]

I'll just jump in here for a moment and state that I'm proud of the way you gents are keeping this discussion civil.

[DaveK]

As has been said, I don't know of any other forum where people can disagree on such emotive issues, yet still be decent to each other. I take that for granted sometimes on here, but we really do have some great folk here.

[J-sews]

As has been said, I don't know of any other forum where people can disagree on such emotive issues, yet still be decent to each other. I take that for granted sometimes on here, but we really do have some great folk here.

So long as we avoid hot-button topics like Leatherman -versus- SwissTool we get along just fine.

[Flash]

  And should the officers involved in knocking down that old woman have even gotten that far anyways?  As human beings they let it escalate that far to where a 300lb man has to knock a 100 lb woman to the ground?  Anyone else would have been arrested and put on trial, but because it was a police officer it's ok. 

OK....picture it another way.

Grandma is being VERY antagonistic.

Officers get close to her in an attempt to defuse the situation and show they are humans too.

(Proximity to some people will make them feel "Safe" and that Officers "trust" them enough to get into their personal zone)

Grandma starts to act up in front of the TV.....not being co operative and generally trying to raise the tension.

Grandma produces (with no warning) a lethal firearm

Officers are in a confined space with no room to manouver

Officers (whilst accepting Grandma is only 100 punds) realise relative size means nothing to the trigger pull on said lethal firearm

Officers react to save their lives and lives of TV crew

Grandma gets a few bruises.


Seems OK to me 

(That is ONE interpretation as to what might have happened there.  Until we see the full footage we will never know .....I could be completely wring, they might have acted completely out of order in which case they need he sack for embarrassing the rest of us)

[Medic82]

I will admit that I don’t really know much about the law when it comes too procuring and carrying a gun in the USA, the only real info I have gotten over the years is from Michael Moore (not the most neutral guy) and a gun crazy American I worked with.

As far as I understand, you can get a fully automatic weapon like a G3 (my favorite weapon) or AR15 pretty simple, but a handgun is a little more hazel and a waiting period???

Can someone pleas educate me on this??

[cgk]

I will admit that I don’t really know much about the law when it comes too procuring and carrying a gun in the USA, the only real info I have gotten over the years is from Michael Moore (not the most neutral guy) and a gun crazy American I worked with.

As far as I understand, you can get a fully automatic weapon like a G3 (my favorite weapon) or AR15 pretty simple, but a handgun is a little more hazel and a waiting period???

Can someone pleas educate me on this??

You can buy semi-automatic rifles on the spot.  Handgun purchases require a waiting period, but are easy to purchase.  To buy a fully automatic weapon you need to have a special firearms license.


Flash-I see we think alike.  I was thinking the granny was lucky to not get shot.  Everytime you see a clip you have to think...MAYBE.  Maybe the cops were overbearing thugs....maybe the cops saw a threat we didnt and acted appropriately.....its hard to know if it was a good move or a bad move without having all the facts.

If anyone thinks an old lady can not be a threat (and no one here has said that)...in 1994 we had a ten year old boy come into our police department loby (holding his little doggy) and confess to just having shot dad in the head with a 12 gauge....it was a scene I will not forget.

[ducktapehero]

I already enforce laws I do not necessarily agree with.  I have stood holding back protesters I agree with.  The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

So, yes I would seize guns.  

This is exactly why we have government tyranny people. I understand you have to sometimes put aside your opinions but at what point is doing what's right more important than doing your job? Obviously you could quit and stand up for what's right but you've already shown that's not what you're gonna do.

I have a question and I want you to answer it.

What if the gov't told you to round up the Jews and Blacks, I'm assuming you'd do it because

The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

I know it's far fetched but you've already proven you'd disarm the populace so they'd be at the governments mercy. So what would you do? Would you round up those people or would you refuse?

[Flash]

I already enforce laws I do not necessarily agree with.  I have stood holding back protesters I agree with.  The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

So, yes I would seize guns.  

This is exactly why we have government tyranny people. I understand you have to sometimes put aside your opinions but at what point is doing what's right more important than doing your job? Obviously you could quit and stand up for what's right but you've already shown that's not what you're gonna do.

I have a question and I want you to answer it.

What if the gov't told you to round up the Jews and Blacks, I'm assuming you'd do it because

The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

I know it's far fetched but you've already proven you'd disarm the populace so they'd be at the governments mercy. So what would you do? Would you round up those people or would you refuse?

Ooooooooooh good question.

(Glad I never made the original statement  )

I think for me its a matter of discretion, common sense and a sliding scale of what the job requires and what the human in us is happy to do.

Yours is a question that covers a HUGE grey area that the "policy makers at town hall/government" hate.

This is getting interesting 

[Medic82]

I will admit that I don’t really know much about the law when it comes too procuring and carrying a gun in the USA, the only real info I have gotten over the years is from Michael Moore (not the most neutral guy) and a gun crazy American I worked with.

As far as I understand, you can get a fully automatic weapon like a G3 (my favorite weapon) or AR15 pretty simple, but a handgun is a little more hazel and a waiting period???

Can someone pleas educate me on this??

You can buy semi-automatic rifles on the spot.  Handgun purchases require a waiting period, but are easy to purchase.  To buy a fully automatic weapon you need to have a special firearms license.

Ok, but are there any criteria you have too fulfill for buying a weapon? Like no criminal history, mentally sick, how you store your weapons etc

[Anthony]

I already enforce laws I do not necessarily agree with.  I have stood holding back protesters I agree with.  The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

So, yes I would seize guns.  

This is exactly why we have government tyranny people. I understand you have to sometimes put aside your opinions but at what point is doing what's right more important than doing your job? Obviously you could quit and stand up for what's right but you've already shown that's not what you're gonna do.

I have a question and I want you to answer it.

What if the gov't told you to round up the Jews and Blacks, I'm assuming you'd do it because

The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

I know it's far fetched but you've already proven you'd disarm the populace so they'd be at the governments mercy. So what would you do? Would you round up those people or would you refuse?

Good question.  There's blind faith among many people in general, and that goes for police and military, maybe even more so for them.  I'm sure if police officers were told to arrest and impound the automobile of anyone going 5 miles over the speed limit, they would.  They'd say to you "I know this is absurd, but I'm just doing my job! " as they cuff you.

[Flash]

I already enforce laws I do not necessarily agree with.  I have stood holding back protesters I agree with.  The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

So, yes I would seize guns.  

This is exactly why we have government tyranny people. I understand you have to sometimes put aside your opinions but at what point is doing what's right more important than doing your job? Obviously you could quit and stand up for what's right but you've already shown that's not what you're gonna do.

I have a question and I want you to answer it.

What if the gov't told you to round up the Jews and Blacks, I'm assuming you'd do it because

The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

I know it's far fetched but you've already proven you'd disarm the populace so they'd be at the governments mercy. So what would you do? Would you round up those people or would you refuse?

Good question.  There's blind faith among many people in general, and that goes for police and military, maybe even more so for them.  I'm sure if police officers were told to arrest and impound the automobile of anyone going 5 miles over the speed limit, they would.  They'd say to you "I know this is absurd, but I'm just doing my job! " as they cuff you.

I have been to far more deaths due to excess speed on roads than all other incidents put together

[Anthony]

  And should the officers involved in knocking down that old woman have even gotten that far anyways?  As human beings they let it escalate that far to where a 300lb man has to knock a 100 lb woman to the ground?  Anyone else would have been arrested and put on trial, but because it was a police officer it's ok. 

OK....picture it another way.

Grandma is being VERY antagonistic.

Officers get close to her in an attempt to defuse the situation and show they are humans too.

(Proximity to some people will make them feel "Safe" and that Officers "trust" them enough to get into their personal zone)

Grandma starts to act up in front of the TV.....not being co operative and generally trying to raise the tension.

Grandma produces (with no warning) a lethal firearm

Officers are in a confined space with no room to manouver

Officers (whilst accepting Grandma is only 100 punds) realise relative size means nothing to the trigger pull on said lethal firearm

Officers react to save their lives and lives of TV crew

Grandma gets a few bruises.


Seems OK to me 

(That is ONE interpretation as to what might have happened there.  Until we see the full footage we will never know .....I could be completely wring, they might have acted completely out of order in which case they need he sack for embarrassing the rest of us)

It says a lot about how they approached the situation.  Why let it escalate to that?  Unless she was totally insane and suicidal when they showed up, being friendly and maybe even lying to the woman would have gone a long way.

[american lockpicker]

I will admit that I don’t really know much about the law when it comes too procuring and carrying a gun in the USA, the only real info I have gotten over the years is from Michael Moore (not the most neutral guy) and a gun crazy American I worked with.

As far as I understand, you can get a fully automatic weapon like a G3 (my favorite weapon) or AR15 pretty simple, but a handgun is a little more hazel and a waiting period???

Can someone pleas educate me on this??

You can buy semi-automatic rifles on the spot.  Handgun purchases require a waiting period, but are easy to purchase.  To buy a fully automatic weapon you need to have a special firearms license.

Ok, but are there any criteria you have too fulfill for buying a weapon? Like no criminal history, mentally sick, how you store your weapons etc

There isn't any criteria other than you have to be a US citizen and 18 for long guns and 21 for machineguns and handguns.

[Flash]

  And should the officers involved in knocking down that old woman have even gotten that far anyways?  As human beings they let it escalate that far to where a 300lb man has to knock a 100 lb woman to the ground?  Anyone else would have been arrested and put on trial, but because it was a police officer it's ok. 

OK....picture it another way.

Grandma is being VERY antagonistic.

Officers get close to her in an attempt to defuse the situation and show they are humans too.

(Proximity to some people will make them feel "Safe" and that Officers "trust" them enough to get into their personal zone)

Grandma starts to act up in front of the TV.....not being co operative and generally trying to raise the tension.

Grandma produces (with no warning) a lethal firearm

Officers are in a confined space with no room to manouver

Officers (whilst accepting Grandma is only 100 punds) realise relative size means nothing to the trigger pull on said lethal firearm

Officers react to save their lives and lives of TV crew

Grandma gets a few bruises.


Seems OK to me 

(That is ONE interpretation as to what might have happened there.  Until we see the full footage we will never know .....I could be completely wring, they might have acted completely out of order in which case they need he sack for embarrassing the rest of us)

It says a lot about how they approached the situation.  Why let it escalate to that?  Unless she was totally insane and suicidal when they showed up, being friendly and maybe even lying to the woman would have gone a long way.

Trust me.....people are STRANGE

Old saying in ol'Blighty

"Theres nowt as strange as folk"

2 lads on my shift gave a "kind old lady" a lift home from the hospital (she asked as the lads were leaving the hospital from an unrelated matter and she was in the reception area).  After a 5 mile ride she pulled out 2 syringes she had stolen from the "sharps" bin and stabbed one of my boys in the shoulder.  He had to wait 6 months to find out whether he had caught anything from the dirty needle.

6 months of not making love to his wife, not playing around with his kids and 6 months of dread.

reason she did this.....none....nada....no one knows.... but she was sectioned under the mental health act.

So all I am saying is....people act in VERY weird ways and can flip at a moments notice.

As I have previously said, these Officers may be well out of order....OR.....the old dear lost it and needed to be jumped on.

Until I see the unedited footage I and YOU will never know.

Believe nothing that you hear, believe only half of what you see, and only trust in the Multi tool (everyone else is a suspect  )

[Anthony]

I'll refrain posting another video I just watched.  If anyone wants their stomach turnt inside out, PM me for a link.  I don't want to turn this thread into a anti police thread.  I understand one bad apple shoulden't spoil the bunch, but when that ONE bad apple can put you in a wheelchair for life, you have to be wary of all the apples.

I just have no trust towards anyone regardless of who they are, and it annoys me that I'm required by law to trust someone because they wear a badge.

And back to the original topic; the more I think of it, America has a good chance of "holding out" against being disarmed by the government.  This nation has the most armed citizens in the world, and while high population cities and states might have to step down and surrender their guns, I think many states will be looked over as "non threatening" to a new government, and that's where America will have to reside for a few dacades until things turn around.

[Mike]

I think many people live in places, large cities for instance where they do not know their local law enforcement officers and the officers do not know them. This sets up an "us versus them" scenario, and a certain amount of distrust on both sides and it stands to reason this would happen.

Some of us are a little luckier in that we live in smaller communities where the local law enforcement officers are also little league coaches, food bank volunteers, habitat for humanity volunteers, etc. We basically know each other, see each other, know each others kids, etc, etc, etc. When I see our local law enforcement officers engaged on the side of the road, I watch closely in case they might need help. I worry about our EMT's and firefighters nearly all of whom are volunteers when I see them working. If I'm going a little over the speed limit, I get flashed by blue lights from the police car on the side of the road, but not pulled over, basically just simple reminder to pay attention to my speed.

So, I think depending on where you live and what the relationship is between the civilians and their local law enforcement officers, this will have some influence on what would actually happen IF mass firearms confiscation were to happen.

It's all theory until it happens. Let's just DO what we can to keep it from happening, and not just hope it doesn't happen.

Mike

[cgk]

I already enforce laws I do not necessarily agree with.  I have stood holding back protesters I agree with.  The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

So, yes I would seize guns.  

This is exactly why we have government tyranny people. I understand you have to sometimes put aside your opinions but at what point is doing what's right more important than doing your job? Obviously you could quit and stand up for what's right but you've already shown that's not what you're gonna do.

I have a question and I want you to answer it.

What if the gov't told you to round up the Jews and Blacks, I'm assuming you'd do it because

The whole concept of law enforcement can not operate unless we put our own beliefs aside and do our J.O.B.

I know it's far fetched but you've already proven you'd disarm the populace so they'd be at the governments mercy. So what would you do? Would you round up those people or would you refuse?

For 16 years I have put myself in harms way for people I do not know.  I have evacuated people from "man with a gun calls" by placing myself between the gun and the citizen.  I have held mothers hands when I told them there son is dead.  I have gone to a house (after work) to remove a recliner after a boy shot himself in the head in it, I put the recliner in my truck and took it to the dump so his parents wouldn't come back from the hospital to see his brains in it.  I have seen fellow officers (my friends) shot and stabbed in the face for people they do not know.  My thanks?  I get compared to a Nazi.  I will answer the question but I am DEEPLY offended at your tone and accusations.

I do have a moral line that can be crossed.  When people in a democracy (technically a republic) elect officials that want to ban guns, when judges are appointed (or elected in a state) that want guns band, I will obey the wishes of those people.  Taking guns from people is not the same as taking people.  NO I would not round up people I would quit, or take a bullet in the head before I supported another holocaust. 

I had a felony gang member (last night) in possession of a handgun.  Guess what?  I arrested him for being a felon in possession of a firearm, locked him up in jail, and CONFISCATED his firearm.  According to you I should have let him go. 

If I do not make a compelling argument, it may be that I am pissed-off at your demands that I answer a question, and your characterization of me. 

[I'm Still Bison]

The tone of this thread has taken a very sour turn and now looks to me like it's bordering on ad hominem if not outright personal attacks.I'm locking this thread...and let's move on to more controversial topics like Leatherman vs. Victorinox.