Sharpening Angle Mystery

[Craig]

After reading Gadget Guy's very useful post on sharpening with a leather strop I have had really good results with a SAK and a Taylor's Eye Witness pen knife using an old wallet and some Autosol. The knives were MUCH sharper as I have ever managed before

Then tonight I tried it on a Leatherman Juice -and I just couldn't get it to work Try as I might I couldn't get even a half decent edge. So, out came the Lansky and I sharpened the blade at a 20 degrees like I had done with the pen knives. After the Lansky it was better but still not much good. 'No matter I thought, the strop will make all the difference.' It didn't,  several minutes with the leather and polish and , the blade still wasn't even close to a  decent level of sharpness. 

I pressed on - another session on the Lansky and more polishing and if anything it was blunter than before

The finally, I tried a steeper angle, 25 degrees instead of the 20 I had been using and success!  The steeper angle made all the difference. After a Lanskying the blade was finally reasonable sharp. I've had enough for now, when I get around to it I'll put the Juice on the strop and see if I can get it as sharp as the pocket knives.

I don't know why changing the angle made such a difference though. If it was a piece of junk knock off and the edge was folding under as I sharpened it I could understand it, but that didn't seem to be happening.

Any ideas?

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

By increasing the angle, your effectively convexing the edge to an even more acute angle

[Benner]

By increasing the angle, your effectively convexing the edge to an even more acute angle

He did a what now 

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

By increasing the angle, your effectively convexing the edge to an even more acute angle

He did a what now 

Actually your right, for some reason I read it that he'd increased, not decreased the angle

Maybe it was just the very tip of the edge that needed sharpening, and the rest of the time on the 20 degree angle, you were just removing/wearing down the shoulders

[Benner]

By increasing the angle, your effectively convexing the edge to an even more acute angle

He did a what now 

Actually your right, for some reason I read it that he'd increased, not decreased the angle

Maybe it was just the very tip of the edge that needed sharpening, and the rest of the time on the 20 degree angle, you were just removing/wearing down the shoulders

I could lie and pretend that I spotted your mistake, but I genuinely didn't understand what you meant. 

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

By increasing the angle, your effectively convexing the edge to an even more acute angle

He did a what now 

Actually your right, for some reason I read it that he'd increased, not decreased the angle

Maybe it was just the very tip of the edge that needed sharpening, and the rest of the time on the 20 degree angle, you were just removing/wearing down the shoulders

I could lie and pretend that I spotted your mistake, but I genuinely didn't understand what you meant. 

Well I'm not about to call you thicky after my faux pa

[Poncho65]

  Yeah looks like it would have helped if he had went to say a 15 degree angle for the back bevel on it then went to the 20 degree angle for the working edge but going to a 25 degree angle seems like would not have solved the problem

[Craig]

[/quote]
Maybe it was just the very tip of the edge that needed sharpening, and the rest of the time on the 20 degree angle, you were just removing/wearing down the shoulders
[/quote]

That makes sense

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Maybe it was just the very tip of the edge that needed sharpening, and the rest of the time on the 20 degree angle, you were just removing/wearing down the shoulders
[/quote]

That makes sense
[/quote]I'm glad it does to someone

[Gareth]

Maybe it was just the very tip of the edge that needed sharpening, and the rest of the time on the 20 degree angle, you were just removing/wearing down the shoulders

That makes sense
[/quote]I'm glad it does to someone
[/quote]

It makes sense to me too, but then I've had a couple..

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Maybe it was just the very tip of the edge that needed sharpening, and the rest of the time on the 20 degree angle, you were just removing/wearing down the shoulders

That makes sense

I'm glad it does to someone
[/quote]

It makes sense to me too, but then I've had a couple..
[/quote]Booze does seem to help people to decipher my ravings

[WhichDawg]

speaking of acute why is everybody messing up the quotes?!
drop the "/" in the first set of brackets!

[Spork, Lord of Lime Jello!]

speaking of acute why is everybody messing up the quotes?!
drop the "/" in the first set of brackets!

I'm not even sure what we're discussing anymore...but I wanted to get a quote in...

[Neil]

Could be that it was pretty blunt to begin with and you just weren't getting to the edge.  If I find I'm getting nowhere with a blade I take a permanent marker and run it along the edge.  After sharpening if you can still see a black line along the edge you just haven't removed enough metal yet and might be better off going with a coarser stone to get you started.

Alternatively there's all the other stuff that's been misquoted in this thread

Neil

[Poncho65]

Alternatively there's all the other stuff that's been misquoted in this thread

Neil

 

Just hope I got the quote right

[Spork, Lord of Lime Jello!]

I think Neil may be on the right track. During the initial sharpening with the coarser stone, you want to go far enough to raise a light burr on one side, then the other to clean up and set the secondary bevel.

[crls1]

Maybe there was a lot of "burned" metal from the initial sharpening in the factory that needed to be removed to get a decent edge. Is it the first time you sharpen this blade?

Carlos

[Poncho65]

Maybe there was a lot of "burned" metal from the initial sharpening in the factory that needed to be removed to get a decent edge. Is it the first time you sharpen this blade?

Carlos

That seems to be a good point Carlos

[crls1]

Maybe there was a lot of "burned" metal from the initial sharpening in the factory that needed to be removed to get a decent edge. Is it the first time you sharpen this blade?

Carlos

That seems to be a good point Carlos

Thanks!  Usually, when i sharpen a new blade, i use a very coarse stone to remove all the steel in the surface, and when i change to finer grits i have better results than when i don't use the coarse stone. Hope this can help.

Carlos

[Craig]

Maybe there was a lot of "burned" metal from the initial sharpening in the factory that needed to be removed to get a decent edge. Is it the first time you sharpen this blade?

Carlos

This is the first time it has been really sharp so you may well be right. 

[Craig]

Could be that it was pretty blunt to begin with and you just weren't getting to the edge.  If I find I'm getting nowhere with a blade I take a permanent marker and run it along the edge.  After sharpening if you can still see a black line along the edge you just haven't removed enough metal yet and might be better off going with a coarser stone to get you started.

Alternatively there's all the other stuff that's been misquoted in this thread

Neil

Great tip.Thank you