Surge Repaired - but not...

[Outback in Idaho]

Normally I am quite impressed with Leatherman and their warranty. Sent my Surge if for repair on the 8th and got it today.

Had a wiggle in the serrated blade when using the scissors, both blades could come open with the pliers deployed as they were not locking, and the blade exchanger cover's dimple was wore down.

Leatherman replaced the straight blade, serrated blade, the scissors (minus the spring), and all of the pivot bolts. Also came with a saw. As for the blade locks, only the straight blade lock got fixed, the serrated one still only puts pressure against the blade.
Would of expected Leatherman to have inspected their work to see that things were fully functional. Am not overly pleased with the warranty repair this time.

Repaired Lock - Straight Blade. Notice the wear mark on the serrated blade where the defective lock is only pressing against it.


This lock still is not locking, only pressing against the blade. Notice the reflection of the locking mechanism in the nail notch wall.


Is it too much to expect quality repair work anymore? This is the first time I did not get everything repaired. Feeling let-down after all the support I give them. 

[Gareth]

Lets be fair, you say you've never been let down before and have always been happy, yes?  Well the folks at Leatherman are only human and are capable of making mistakes and having an 'off' day as anyone. 

I'm sure it must be frustrating that it's still not perfect, but let them have a chance to make good.

[Outback in Idaho]

Guess I should whip put the Dremel tool and grind out a notch.

Not going to spend another $10 in postage to have it repaired again. Don't have money to waste.

[Gareth]

Have you talked to them?  I don't think you should have to spend another $10 sending it back in either, but they might well cover the cost as it's their over-site.  Worth a shot.

[Outback in Idaho]

Have you talked to them?  I don't think you should have to spend another $10 sending it back in either, but they might well cover the cost as it's their over-site.  Worth a shot.

Haven't yet. Someone PM'd me on facebook and suggested the Dremel idea.

[AHB]

Let LM have another shot at it. I'm sure they'll cover postage if needed.. 

[Outback in Idaho]

Let LM have another shot at it. I'm sure they'll cover postage if needed.. 

Sent them an email with photo links. Will see what they have to say.    Thanks for the support mates!

[Outback in Idaho]

Was looking over the Surge more and it looks the warranty department rebuilt 80% of the tool.

The handle with the locking pin problem is marked 0510, while the other side that does work (after the rework) is marked 0610.

Surge vs. Charge TTi - Blade Locking Pins

[Outback in Idaho]

And to be fair, side by side of the serrated blade locks in comparison.

[Outback in Idaho]

Charge & Wave locking pins are quite noticeable, quite prominently engaged in the blade notches.

Surge, for as big as a tool it is, does not seem to be the same. 
Ones here are tinier and look to barely clear the notch hole when engaged.


Okay. The issue is more of the inner springs inside the handles, the ones that the pliers activate by either pressing against or not. These have a prong that sticks out of the handle, this is the locking pin - the spring.
The springs inside the Surge are more bow-legged than the ones inside my Charge TTi. Not able to take a photo (as of yet) inside due to lighting & positioning issues.

[Outback in Idaho]

The blade locking pins are a segment of the inner springs. Kept the rivets on the left, so the locking pins would protrude upwards in the comparison photo.

Sorry for the photo quality of the top section. Could not get a good focus.

[AHB]

Looks like you're still in good hands Jim.. 

From FB:
Leatherman No worries - I just sent Jim a message and we're all set. I have our best customer service person on it and we'll get it fixed. I'm so sorry it came back to you un-fully-serviced (is that okay to say it light that ? Anyhow...Give us another chance and I promise it will be right. If I have to go down and fix it myself...oh no wait...you don't want that
Juli at Leatherman

[Outback in Idaho]

Looks like you're still in good hands Jim.. 

From FB:
Leatherman No worries - I just sent Jim a message and we're all set. I have our best customer service person on it and we'll get it fixed. I'm so sorry it came back to you un-fully-serviced (is that okay to say it light that ? Anyhow...Give us another chance and I promise it will be right. If I have to go down and fix it myself...oh no wait...you don't want that
Juli at Leatherman

Thanks, Allan. I should of done that. Real life side-tracked me. Glad you caught the post.

Removed the Leatherman post on their facebook page as needless comments were being added which would have just lead to further flaming. Seems some would rather attack the poster than just reply to the subject matter, or refrain from replying at all. Then the trolls start in.      


Anyhow, I couldn't afford to send the tool back due to personal hardship. Juli contacted a speSmurfpillst in their Customer Service to send a mailing envelope out to send the Surge back to them for repair.
Hopefully the tool will just be replaced, or have new springs replaced. Not sure which would be more cost effective. Replacement would just mean losing the engraving done on the tool. 

[Outback in Idaho]

Replacement Surge came in, had the same issue new out of the box. Juli of Leatherman is sending out envelopes to ship the tools to her, and she's going to have their QA team go over them.

New Surge
Straight blade: Pin on spring is latching into place


Serrated blade: Pin on spring is not latching, instead being forced back into the handle by the blade.


Made my first ever video with a Sony Cyber-Shot W560, so forgive the tummy muscle view. This is on Facebook, open to everyone. Hope it shows as a video here...
Blade Locking Issue with Surge
[video]http://s-static.ak.facebook.com/rsrc.php/v1/yS/r/wKjaP4AL37H.swf[/video]


Told Juli I didn't want to be unreasonable and said could probably repair the tool. Later decided that perhaps sending both tools back, both my old repaired & the new tool. Hopefully this will give their engineers more physical evidence to effect a cure.
The pin does press the serrated blade into the handle enough to hold it in place till it gets used a lot. Once used and worn the blade slides out. This is more of a safety issue on the straight blade due to the point. Not as bad on the serrated blade as there is no sharp point. However the Charge and Wave do not have this issue on either of the blades.

Tried a tungsten carbide bit but it wouldn't make a dent into the blade. Ended up using the smallest Dremel stone I had, a 5/16" - but it was not truly centered. It did fix the issue, yet left a small wiggle in the blade afterwards.

Pliers closed:


Pliers open:



When I pushed the serrated blade into place it snapped in. So made another video the next day to show another way to see & feel the pin lock latching into place. Again, it is on facebook and open to everyone.
Leatherman Surge Locking Pin Check
[video]http://s-static.ak.facebook.com/rsrc.php/v1/yS/r/wKjaP4AL37H.swf[/video]

[turnsouth]

I'm thinking that the serrated blade could be quite a safety issue. I can imagine a scenario where someone could loose quite a big chunk of palm under the right conditions.

[Mercury]

I'm glad to see that Juli is concerned and willing to help.  That is quite a concern and to be honest, it's part of why I never took to outboard tools.  I find that the blades open too easily even new, especially surge blades.  I tend to twist the smurf out of my tool when prying or driving screws, and my palm or thumb hits the "leatherhole" and out comes the blade.  My skeletool darn near cost me the pad on my right thumb at Christmas last year, it ended up getting sold.  If you ask me, the tiny little detent is not sufficient on any of the blades.  It wears down to easy and doesn't inspire confidence. 

I tend to stick with tools like the Blast.  I carry one every day and it rarely bites me unless I am careless.  I just ordered another ST300 for the bigger work duty, it will be my heavy tool until the Surge is either replaced or updated.

[Outback in Idaho]

What I found odd is that the locking pins on the Charge & Wave, which are part of the spring inside the handle, are much bigger/wider than on the much larger Surge.
The pins on the Surge are just tiny nips, whereas the Charge & Wave are quite noticeable. Wonder why?   

[theblackabbot]

I have a Surge and I tried to open the blades with the pliers out and I could not do it.  One side of my Surge is dated 1210 and the other 0311, so the parts are pretty new.  It seems to be in good order.

[Marlinaholic]

Blades not locking closed on the Surge when the pliers are deployed is a common problem judging by the ones I own (two right now).  Mine had issues with both blade locks not engaging in the thumb cut outs enough to do much good.  I had a very small Dremel stone and just took a few thousandths off the bottom of the thumb holes.  If you do it carefully no one will even know you did it, and the blade locks will then engage perfectly and tightly.   Both my Surges also had the pocket clip notch on the "wrong" handle.  So when you used a pocket clip, and pulled the tool from your pants, the serrated blade was under your thumb ready for deployment, rather than the plain edge blade.  Comparing to lots of pictures I found on line, my Surges were not assembled in the "normal" lay out.  I have the right Torx drivers so it only took a few minutes to correct the problem, but it was annoying.

[Outback in Idaho]

Both my old (rebuilt) and newer replacement Surges have the pocket clip above the scissors.

Though I do have the pocket clip, rarely have used it. Then too I tend to put the tool w/ clip in my left pocket between uses. Sheath it otherwise. Think it is because I carry too many keys (and duplicates) on/in the right pocket.


Date Codes
Original (Rebuilt) Surge: 0610 & 0510
Replacement Surge: 0611 & 0411

If only the blades has a date code, as I think it is more alignment of the thumb notch holes more than anything.

[Outback in Idaho]

Leatherman contacted me today; they want both Surges back, and are sending out pre-paid shipping envelopes for them. QA will have a look-see at them, then will be sending out a new Surge. Leatherman said there will be no problems with this replacement multitool. Could be a couple of weeks though, shipping and what not.
  Sure hope they check that the locking pins are really engaging this time around - and not just pressing on the blades.

Awesome service, save the downtime!


Then will have to find a way of dealing with them squares edges again. Filing the edges down on black oxide really stands out! Bluing won't stick either. Is why I wished the Surge had scales like that of the Charge series!! 

[Beerplumber]

Blades not locking closed on the Surge when the pliers are deployed is a common problem judging by the ones I own (two right now).  Mine had issues with both blade locks not engaging in the thumb cut outs enough to do much good.  I had a very small Dremel stone and just took a few thousandths off the bottom of the thumb holes.  If you do it carefully no one will even know you did it, and the blade locks will then engage perfectly and tightly.   Both my Surges also had the pocket clip notch on the "wrong" handle.  So when you used a pocket clip, and pulled the tool from your pants, the serrated blade was under your thumb ready for deployment, rather than the plain edge blade.  Comparing to lots of pictures I found on line, my Surges were not assembled in the "normal" lay out.  I have the right Torx drivers so it only took a few minutes to correct the problem, but it was annoying.

.  My first surge had the PE on the scissor side but since then I've sent for warranty work twice and bought a second surge now both have the serrated blade on the scissor side, I assume they changed it up for some reason...

[Outback in Idaho]

For the record your last fixup was great. Wasn't perfect, had a wiggle - doesn't matter mate. Gave it personality and was functional. Stop stressing, fix this one, move on. Peace.

Should of fixed the first one (if it had of dawned on me) before going on a crusade. Was so set out to show a manufacturing flaw that I lost personal perspective.

Figured Leatherman wouldn't test out this replacement Surge using the second layman's video for blade/locking pin clearance engagement. Would of liked to been there to show them. Too late now.

All that is left now to find a 0.125" straight grinding stone for the Dremel to fix that one small area. If only had a grinding stone shaped like the top bit, yet as small as the end of the bottom but I would have just about the right size. 



Off to Home Depot. Could use that bottom bit but I only get one shot at this. So wished could afford a Dremel stand. If could get lucky on a sale. 

[Outback in Idaho]

Found a cure, mates! Something caught my eye that one of the QA folks at Leatherman must have performed.

This landing area was filed down; the silver glint caught my eye.


Taking the file out and filing down a tad on the same area on the serrated blade did it fix the clearance landing. Now it passed my secondary video scenario. No bits required - Only a diamond file.


Wished would of seen this earlier, could of kept my first Surge. If I pointed this out now would probably have to pay for the replacement Surge.


Edit: Decided to trim just a hair off the thumb notch anyhow as the play if the serrated blade's channel was getting thinner. Wanted that tiniest bit more security, so used the tapered Dremel bit to gently take out a minute amount of material.


 

[zoidberg]

Great spotting and job well done.

I had thought about mentioning the blade stop (landing area) but remembered when looking at mine that the tolerance was so low it wouldn't clear before the knife edge hit the handle. That and I like to hit things with a hammer.

Can we please get a pic with everything working properly now?

[Accujohn]

The Surge is a versatile workhorse, but not the tightest tolerance leatherman out there. It is solid but just not that precise. Love mine for what it is... And it saved my dogs life.

[Outback in Idaho]

Weird, Leatherman claims the returned tool is working fine.    Found the serrated was not engaging for at least 100 times before taking the video. Guess my tolerances and Leatherman's are different. Yet never had the problem on a Charge or Wave. Too far/costly to drive/fly over to show them in person.

Pressing against the blade and locking are two different things in my book. Guess it must be geographical magnetism? 

[Accujohn]

Hope you eventually get to using your Surge as it should serve you well

[Outback in Idaho]

This is just to show the engraving quality of the replacement.

Original Laser Engraving (Top) - Nice white letters! 

Replacement laser Engraving (Bottom) - Subdued, barely noticable letters. 


If I had to do it all over again, would of sent the replacement back and kept the original. Though the BO Surge was scratched up bad, the letters were quite proud & noticeable.


Sexy!



UGLY!



The price one pays to make a point. Guess have to be thankful despite the poor laser engraving quality. At least they did re-engrave it at no extra charge. 


Just goes to show you, nothing beats your first! 

[Outback in Idaho]

Great spotting and job well done.

I had thought about mentioning the blade stop (landing area) but remembered when looking at mine that the tolerance was so low it wouldn't clear before the knife edge hit the handle. That and I like to hit things with a hammer.

Can we please get a pic with everything working properly now?

Sorry about that, now sure what side tracked me way back then.

The scissors side was filed down a tad on the channel landing tab.


The blade exchanger side I did end up having to adjust both the channel landing tab & the thumb hole. There is just barely enough clearance for a thin piece of paper to fit between the pin and the serrated blade.


Showing the amount that each tab required for the safety locks to engage properly.



Now if you are wondering what brought me back to this, has read a post on Leatherman's facebook page of someone having this issue with a Charge TTi.

Saturday, January 26. 2013

Ouch!! Screwing in screws on the replacement back door handle which were a bit tough,was holding charge tti a bit funny,blade opens slightly and as I'm turning the screw,blade tip goes thru thumb end :0(