Fifth company category - Who could it be?

[ReamerPunch]

Victorinox, Leatherman, Gerber, and SOG have their dedicated sections here.
As do off-brand tools.

Is there anyone else good enough to get a section of their own?
There must be, right? The MT world is dominated by the aforementioned four, but surely there are others.

What about Bear & Son? American made, with some great tools, and Victorinox bought them to use their patents for the Swisstool.

Swiza? Maybe if they make more models. Though they may just be included in the SAK section.

Coast, nah. Not good enough. Ganzo? Probably not.

I suppose a manufacturer who makes just a couple of models won't be getting his own spot any time soon.

Thoughts?

Just to make things clear, there were no news about a fifth manufacturer getting their own section. I'm just wondering who the fifth best company is, if you will.

[dks]

I think Ganzo will have a page way before Bear and Son.. Their new tools and knives are considered really bad - they are just coasting on the fact that they are not made in China.
Ganzo, worldwide, probably sells way more multitools than all the others, but they are usually rebranded. Most buyers buy low cost multitools.

For a new subforum to be introduced it must guarantee enough traffic and interest, whilst not draining the existing subforums.

Some of the subforums only have a few active threads.

And, the Rescue tool subforum never really gets any interest - I wonder why it is still there.

[ReamerPunch]

I think Ganzo will have a page way before Bear and Son.. Their new tools and knives are considered really bad - they are just coasting on the fact that they are not made in China.
Ganzo, worldwide, probably sells way more multitools than all the others, but they are usually rebranded. Most buyers buy low cost multitools.

That's sad to know, I was looking forward to buying a B&S.

What about Schrade? They have a few models around. Like that three-handle pliers-scissors OUTU tool.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Subforums don't generate discussion, they only help to organize it.

Before we consider opening a new Subforums you have to look at what is already being discussed.  A Bear and Son forum has been suggested (so vehemently in fact that I could say it was lobbied for!) in the past but since no one really seems interested in discussing them, there was no reason to put it together.  Hell, I have met the Big Bear himself a few times and even he doesn't seem interested in talking about their multitools.  Too bad, because they do have a great line of tools, and it has always bothered me that they don't do more with them.

As for Ganzo and Coast, there is the Cheap and Cheerful section, which was a name carefully crafted to accept all of what I consider to be the discount and no name brands, good or bad.  Given that many of these come from China, Taiwan, Malaysia etc I had considered calling the for The Asian Persuasion but as Asia doesn't have a complete monopoly on inexpensive tools I didn't go that way.  It was also going to be called Cheap and Nasty at another point but that seemed to discount some of the cheapos that were actually quite good.

Given that CRKT has a number of models, and is continuing to release more and more, I strongly considered having a CRKT subforum, but unfortunately no one ever seems to want to talk about Zillas, Guppies, Get A Way Drivers, Lumabiners, Cicadas, Bivys, MAK-1's, CRKT Tools, Exitools, Extrik8R's or Eat'n Tools.

Don't get me started on Schrade.....  if we started one of those it would be called the Piece of smurf forum..... 

Def

[ReamerPunch]

Don't get me started on Schrade.....  if we started one of those it would be called the Piece of smurf forum..... 

Def

I saw your review on that newer Schrade (why do they call everything a tough tool?).
Great read, excellent points. 

[Steinar]

Company forums as such always has been a little strange from my point of view. I prefer organizing by type of tool, pliers based vs folding knife vs fixed blade vs... and so on. Some companies, like the ones which do have company specific forums, do have a strong brand following, though, so I guess it makes sense.

[Corwyn]

Ganzos are cool and the most used and sold around the world but they don't gather a real following...
CRKT as well... I can count on my fingers how many people I know that I heard edc their MTs...

Probably the only brands that come close in popularity to Vic/LM/SOG/Gerber around here are Spyderco and Opinel, but still I don't think they warrant a separate forum.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Company forums as such always has been a little strange from my point of view. I prefer organizing by type of tool, pliers based vs folding knife vs fixed blade vs... and so on. Some companies, like the ones which do have company specific forums, do have a strong brand following, though, so I guess it makes sense.

You have largely hit the nail square on the head.  If I was to start the site over again, I'm not 100% certain I would even include manufacturer specific forums as they really don't accomplish much, and in some ways limit people.  Some folks only post in Swiss Army Knights or Leatherman and never post anywhere else, which is fine if that is all they are interested in, but I don't see them getting interested in much else since they don't see anything else.

And while it might seems like a manufacturer specific forum, Swiss Army Knights covers everything Swiss ( brands like Victorinox, Wenger and Swiza) and Swiss related type knives like the various incarnations of the 108mm military knives or the demo knives from Camillus.

So technically Victoria ox doesn't even have their own subforum, even though they tend to dominate the Swiss Army Knights.

Def

[Etherealicer]

Well, on the hypothetical side, I'd have to go for bike MTs, simply because I think a lot of people don't see the potential and variety they have. Or if I had to name a brand it would be Topeak (good tool selection at a reasonable price).

[Corwyn]

Well, on the hypothetical side, I'd have to go for bike MTs, simply because I think a lot of people don't see the potential and variety they have. Or if I had to name a brand it would be Topeak (good tool selection at a reasonable price).

Afraid you'd end up with 3-4 people talking in that forum, mate... 

[Fortytwo]

Well, on the hypothetical side, I'd have to go for bike MTs, simply because I think a lot of people don't see the potential and variety they have. Or if I had to name a brand it would be Topeak (good tool selection at a reasonable price).

Or maybe an "unconventional" section. for those small axe/hammer/pliers, but also bike tools, tactical shovels and such? But then again there's this "General Tool Discussion" that can swallow such things.

[Etherealicer]

Well, on the hypothetical side, I'd have to go for bike MTs, simply because I think a lot of people don't see the potential and variety they have. Or if I had to name a brand it would be Topeak (good tool selection at a reasonable price).

Afraid you'd end up with 3-4 people talking in that forum, mate... 

I know! But remember, words like exclusive and elite are never associated with large groups

IIRC there has even been a bike-tool section which is now the "Outdoor and Survival Forum" due to low interest.

[Etherealicer]

Well, on the hypothetical side, I'd have to go for bike MTs, simply because I think a lot of people don't see the potential and variety they have. Or if I had to name a brand it would be Topeak (good tool selection at a reasonable price).

Or maybe an "unconventional" section. for those small axe/hammer/pliers, but also bike tools, tactical shovels and such? But then again there's this "General Tool Discussion" that can swallow such things.

Small axe/hammer/pliers	>>>	Cheap and Cheerful
Bike tools	>>>	Outdoor and Survival Forum
Tactical shovels	>>>	Outdoor and Survival Forum or Axe Hole

All though any of them can be put into the General Tool Discussion

[Poncho65]

I get lost in the amount of subsections we have now I do tend to stay with just a few of them though and even when I try to come up with stuff to post in some of the subsections there isn't much interest (mine included sometimes ) I like that we have the different subsections though because it helps me to know where to go for info that I need about specific tools or knives

[yud]

In terms of people not talking about CRTK maybe merit badge it and they will come 

But anyways, I also tend to stick to a few subforums, mainly because of my interests are in those forums, for example I don't own an axe so the axe hole has limited appeal.  But if I need opinion on an axe I know where to go.

[ThePeacent]

For me:
Main brands should be the classic 4.
There should be a subforum for all the other big-brand MTs (CRKT, Kershaw, Schrade, Spyderco, Ganzo, Bear and Sons) that do not necessarily make/made cheap/inexpensive tools.

And then we have the Cheap and Cheerful already for Knockoffs, DeWalts, Smith and Wessons, Remington, and all the chinese crap, knockoffs and rebranded-but-made-in-the-same-factory-with $2 budget multitools and SAK clones)

Just my opinion, there's a difference big enough between those three groups

[rdub934]

Well, on the hypothetical side, I'd have to go for bike MTs, simply because I think a lot of people don't see the potential and variety they have. Or if I had to name a brand it would be Topeak (good tool selection at a reasonable price).

I started a thread about this very subject not too long ago. If I remember correctly, originally the Outdoor Edge (or whatever) was intended to be a bike MT (BMT?) subforum. But I do think it would be a good idea, even if it's not that busy, it would be a place for people looking for information on BMTs. This would be my first vote for a new subforum, but not brand specific.

Given that CRKT has a number of models, and is continuing to release more and more, I strongly considered having a CRKT subforum, but unfortunately no one ever seems to want to talk about Zillas, Guppies, Get A Way Drivers, Lumabiners, Cicadas, Bivys, MAK-1's, CRKT Tools, Exitools, Extrik8R's or Eat'n Tools.

Def

I could see CRKT because of the number of tool models they put out, but their MTs just don't seem to generate much of a following. I really like their M16/21 knives, though. Anyways, I guess CRKT would be my vote for a 5th brand subforum. But it think it would be the quietest of the brand subforums

Some of the subforums only have a few active threads.

Good point, the SOG and Gerber subforums are pretty quiet most of the time. Some of the others stay completely dormant for several days.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Well, on the hypothetical side, I'd have to go for bike MTs, simply because I think a lot of people don't see the potential and variety they have. Or if I had to name a brand it would be Topeak (good tool selection at a reasonable price).

A bit of MTO history....

Outdoor Edge actually was originally called The Cycle Path and was supposed to be for discussing bike tools.  It never really took off, and I branched it out into The Outdoor Edge to discuss outdoors tools and use.  I would love to see more bike specific discussion here, but there's not much point to a subforum that no one visits.  We already have too many of those. 

Well, on the hypothetical side, I'd have to go for bike MTs, simply because I think a lot of people don't see the potential and variety they have. Or if I had to name a brand it would be Topeak (good tool selection at a reasonable price).

Or maybe an "unconventional" section. for those small axe/hammer/pliers, but also bike tools, tactical shovels and such? But then again there's this "General Tool Discussion" that can swallow such things.

Small axe/hammer/pliers	>>>	Cheap and Cheerful
Bike tools	>>>	Outdoor and Survival Forum
Tactical shovels	>>>	Outdoor and Survival Forum or Axe Hole

All though any of them can be put into the General Tool Discussion

Completely agreed.

For me:
Main brands should be the classic 4.
There should be a subforum for all the other big-brand MTs (CRKT, Kershaw, Schrade, Spyderco, Ganzo, Bear and Sons) that do not necessarily make/made cheap/inexpensive tools.

And then we have the Cheap and Cheerful already for Knockoffs, DeWalts, Smith and Wessons, Remington, and all the chinese crap, knockoffs and rebranded-but-made-in-the-same-factory-with $2 budget multitools and SAK clones)

Just my opinion, there's a difference big enough between those three groups

There is.

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/board,4.0.html



Def

[sLaughterMed]

While, I'm not a huge fan of the manufacturer based subforum, I don't see a better way to organize the forum. Assuming similar activity and growth MT.O currently has, dividing it into pliers based/knife based/other subforum would result in the pliers based forum being massive and mostly dominated by Leatherman tools. knife based forum would just looks like the SAK forum does already. other would be fairly empty, and consisting mostly of Cheap & Cheerful content.

Inevitably, in order to relieve traffic from the pliers based forum, a seperate Leatherman forum would be created... leaving the pliers based forum to look like 90% of the General tool forum, with another 8% Gerber and 2% SOG.

I like MT.O the way it is. Maybe if CRKT or Bear starts to really take up some significant market share, we can talk about making a new forum for them, but until then I see no point. i'd argue for a separate Challenges forum before we make another manufacturers forum

[Grant Lamontagne]

With 281 posts so far today (and less then two hours left), and 347 posts yesterday, I am having a hard time seeing the justification for adding forums when the ones we do have aren't seeing a lot of traffic.

Sorry to interject the business end of the site into an otherwise stimulating discussion! 

Def

[ColoSwiss]

I'm inclined to say there are already too many forums. Its hard to keep track of all of them, with the result I typically only browse four or five. Part of this is lack of time; part is admittedly narrow interests. However there are 3 or 4 forums with less than a thousand posts, and a similar number with less than two thousand. If they're not being used maybe they should be eliminated as part of a clean-up.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'm inclined to say there are already too many forums. Its hard to keep track of all of them, with the result I typically only browse four or five. Part of this is lack of time; part is admittedly narrow interests. However there are 3 or 4 forums with less than a thousand posts, and a similar number with less than two thousand. If they're not being used maybe they should be eliminated as part of a clean-up.

I have thought of that on many occasions.

Def

[sLaughterMed]

I'm inclined to say there are already too many forums. Its hard to keep track of all of them, with the result I typically only browse four or five. Part of this is lack of time; part is admittedly narrow interests. However there are 3 or 4 forums with less than a thousand posts, and a similar number with less than two thousand. If they're not being used maybe they should be eliminated as part of a clean-up.

I think the only sub I can really justify wanting to be rid of is the Rescue tool forum. That place is a black hole.

Everything else gets regular traffic, even if it is slow traffic

[Sea Monster]

At the least, a layout restructure wouldn't hurt those of us operating on Laptops or smaller screened devices.

[Steinar]

Frankly, I only enter a forum when I want to start a thread. I read the forum using the "all unread posts" view. I really wouldn't have noticed that much difference if we only had a single forum category.

[Grant Lamontagne]

At the least, a layout restructure wouldn't hurt those of us operating on Laptops or smaller screened devices.

What do you have in mind?  The forum looks fine to me on my 15.6" Toshiba, and renders well on both my Samsung Galaxy S5 phone and Tab S 8.4.

Def

[Sea Monster]

I'm not sure if it is the size's fault, It might just be my software living in struggle street.

[sLaughterMed]

Sorry the forum is giving you trouble Sea Monster. I actually do 90% of my browsing on my Galaxy S3, and the standard mobile site is actually pretty good, although I am lucky to be blessed with 20/20 vision. My 15" Lenovo does very well with the standard site as well.

[ducttapetech]

That is how I do it Steinar. Sadly, some people just visit the SAK forum or LM or whatever forum and never go see the other forums. I tend to think this is sad. Lots of great threads and posts in the other forums. When the challenges where going on, only a few would check them out. Again which is sad, there is a lot of cool info in them and we got to know some of our members even more. Which I think is a good thing.

That's us mobile

[Grant Lamontagne]

That is who I do it Steinar. Sadly, some people just visit the SAK forum or LM or whatever forum and never go see the other forums. I tend to think this is sad. Lots of great threads and posts in the other forums. When the challenges where going on, only a few would check them out. Again which is sad, there is a lot of cool info in them and we got to know some of our members even more. Which I think is a good thing.

That's us mobile

Agreed.

I usually don't use the Show New Topics option though.  I just open the main forum page, start at the top and work my way down.

Def