On Multitools and Knives

[kymg]

I have been thinking – which is no mean feat I can tell you.

I have been thinking about the Wave that I have and the Spirit that I recently purchased and wondered why I believe the principles embedded in the Spirit to be better than the Wave. The same goes for MTs of a similar ilk (Charge, Surge, Flik etc)

Well here goes. The Wave bases itself around a couple of features.

1.The one-handed opening blades
and
2.The pliers and other tools (which is essentially what all MTs are about).

The issue that I have with Wave is the need to be able to deploy a knife at a seconds notice. I suspect that most of us don't. It looks pretty clever but I suspect could get people into trouble.

I have a Gerber MP400 which I reckon is pretty cool type of tool. The 'flick of your wrist' pliers are an exceptional design feature (lets forget about the rattle for a moment). This is a feature that relates directly to the second point I made about the Wave and that is the pliers. Surely a reason that we carry / use a MT is the pliers. Whether we are likely to need a pair of pliers a seconds notice remains to be seen but it more likely to be seen as less threatening than a knife.

I also have a KF4 which has received rave reviews and its own thread. Again it comes with two knives – why, I don't know. There seems to be an unnecessary need to own a MT for it knife / knives than for the other purposes for which it was intended – pliers, screwdrivers, can / bottle opener, scissors. For that reason I wouldn't own a Skeletool. I have read many times that “I used my XYZ Multitool to open boxes at work. If this is the use for the knife then those knives found on some MT really are overkill.

Don't get me wrong tho'. If people want big smurf knives on the MT that they choose then who am I to stand in their way (especially when they have the knife) but I reckon for the Average Joe the knife should be discreet, functional -  just one part of the overall makeup of a MT not one of its defining features.

Which brings me to the Spirit. To my way of thinking it is a SAK with a decent pair of pliers and some other pretty handy and useful tools and it is designed and packaged in such a way as to make it stand out from the rest of the crowd without looking too fearsome.

That's all for now

[J-sews]

Well thought out kymg, but clearly this is a case of "to each his own."  Speaking for myself, I prefer to just carry one device, hence my preference for a plier/knife/screwdriver combination tool. And as regards deployment of the knife, it isn't speed which is most important, but the ability to deploy one-handed. (while my other hand is occupied)   

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I completely agree with you findings mate

To my mind the Charge/Surge serious have made to many compromise in there design, just to incorperate the OH feature, which as you rightly point out is a nice feature, but hardly essential

[Grant Lamontagne]

I pretty well agree with most of your thoughts as well.  Bob does have a point though, that there are occasions when a one handed opening blade is important.  Does that blade need to be some kind of super steel?  Probably not.  That much is overkill as far as I am concerned (despite the fact that I have about 8 Charges!  ) and as far as an OH blade goes, you are absolutely right that OH pliers are just as useful.  In fact, if there was a way to make a multitool where every tool was one handed (good opportunity for XTract lovers to give me the pokey stick here) I would appreciate that.  there are times when I am dealing with teeny screws for example, and you need to wiggle it to get it sitting properly in the hole only to realize that you can't run it in with your fingers.  A one handed screwdriver would be very handy in a situation like that.

Then there's that poor bugger that had to amputate his own arm after being trapped by a rock slide a few years ago.  Not only would he likely have appreciated a one handed opening saw, I'm sure he'd appreciate a number of one handed opening tools now.

I don't think it's so much about speed of deployability so much as it's about ease of access.  Multitools are all about convenience.  Let's face it, if it was convenient enough we'd probably all rather carry fully equipped toolboxes rather than multitools, as even the best multis can't compete with dedicated tools.

That having been said, the emphasis on the OH knife blade is because for most of the world, multitools are perceived as the red headed smurf step child of the knife industry, and manufacturers are ok with that because the knife industry is more lucrative than the hand tool industry.  Don't believe me?  How many Craftsman screwdrivers can you buy for the cost of your average Spyderco or Benchmade knife?  Look at other sites like Bladeforums.com or Knifeforums.com- they are knife sites with small sections devoted to multitools as if they were an afterthought.  I'm certain if you go to a Snap On (or similar type) forum there isn't even a section for multitools.  So, being lumped in with knife companies and the knife industry puts more emphasis on the blades.

Is it right?  That part is definitely the "to each his/her own" part.  Honestly, I'd rather have a one handed rescue cutter than a clip point any day.  And, if you look at something like the Charge/Wave/Surge type design, I think one OH blade is enough, and that OH scissors could easily replace one blade or the other.

Good topic though- I can't wait to see what others think!

Def

[cncguy]

For me, the lack of OH access knives (or knife) is the very reason i would never EDC a Spirit, and it's largely because of the OH knives why a Charge is my favorite multi. (And why I have a Skeletool on order).

I appreciate the ease of  access, not necessarily the "Rambo" feeling you get from flicking open a OH knife. It's interesting how different people's priorities can be polar opposites from each other!

Just my two cents .........

[WhichDawg]

I also think about our dwarf friends with their big fat fingers and no finger-nails who I read about
from time to time and how hard it is for them to access tools with finger-nail notches or even
the other ways of deployment (non- OH) that many MTs and SAKs have,
for them OH operation is much easier and desired. (gawd bless you Stumpy)

A very interesting observation kymg

[NeitherExtreme]

Hi all.

I used to think that 2 knives was overkill, especially for an edc situation, but I've since decided two blades is a good thing, though still not necessary. That's because knife edges, unlike any of the other tools, can loose their usefulness simply by using them. The best example I have was one time I took my KF4 on a three day trip to NYC, and I completely ruined the serrated edge trying to cut a blown tire of a rim so we could work on it (it was an interesting tip ). That happened on the way there, but thanks to having two blades I still had a good knife for the rest of the trip. Also, different knife blades work better for different situations. Think about the old slip-joint designs, they usually had a few blades in a few styles.

The OH opening blades are obviously a personal preference, though as others mentioned there are times when a OH blade makes a big difference in a situation. If someone was working in the cold I'd think the Wave would look a lot more inviting than the Spirit for example.

I think it also has lot to do with whether or not you're going to carry a dedicate knife or not. Some of us don't want two seperate tools if one can do the job, so we see our MT as our knife. I know when Tim was designing the PST he said he thought of it as a knife-with-tools, and it wasn't till he started marketing it that he thought of it more as a tool-with-knife, so I would say that MT's were somehow designed to be just tools rather than knives.

[Styerman]

I have made a simlar journey an come to a similar conclusion. I was a wave / charge carrier for many years
.I did find one hand opening very handy ,ie on ladders. I think it was brilliant marketing move designed to cash in on the politically correct end of the Tactical market. The Swisstool family is simply a better tool. If I need onehand stuff I just carry a small Tactical. For personal saftey I have become more of a fan of improvised impact over improvised edged stuff. I have training in both.

Chris

[Zack]

I usually always carry at least 2 knives on me ant any given time.  It depends on where I am going and what I plan on doing when I get there.  There is always a multi in the car, so thats no big deal.  I always have a multi in my comp bag, unless I am flying which is about twice a month for me.  Lately its been either my skeletool and my lumberjack, or my Swisstool and a one hand opener like my twitch or blackout.  I work in an office environement so a multi isn't really needed, except for a corkscrew and bottle opener for when we get good news.  My EDC changes depending on what I am doing, simple as that.

[Sea Monster]

I use a dedicated knife (or SAK, whatever) 10-to-1 compared to how often I use the knife on a multi.
In fact, the knife of my LM Kick is sealed into the handle, but that's just me. I can understand how some people, (especially Wave/Charge people, because I reckon there's a lot more of them dithering about the world than we lot here) really appreciate the focus on the Blade(s) because that IS their knife, they don't carry another.


As for the Skele - The jury may still be out as to whether that is Pliers with a Knife, or a Knife with Pliers.

I appreciate the ease of  access, not necessarily the "Rambo" feeling you get from flicking open a OH knife.

Rambo carried a fixed blade 



As always, If anyone wants to send me their collection, I'm sure I could spare a moment to give my opinions 

[Magic Bus]

For me a multitools' real world usefulness is defined by the sum of it's tools, rather than any emphasis being placed on a blade or blades. I haven't yet found myself in a situation where a OH blade is an advantage. Instead I prefer a good varied selection of tools that allows me to tackle light to medium duty jobs when I have no other tools at hand (this is usually at work where someone has borrowed or lost stuff from the toolbox) Having said that I have'nt yet settled on one do it all MT, I'm having too much fun using them all. Does anyone know of an MT that will take metric allen bits up to 8mm or so?

[Benner]

For me a multitools' real world usefulness is defined by the sum of it's tools, rather than any emphasis being placed on a blade or blades. I haven't yet found myself in a situation where a OH blade is an advantage. Instead I prefer a good varied selection of tools that allows me to tackle light to medium duty jobs when I have no other tools at hand (this is usually at work where someone has borrowed or lost stuff from the toolbox) Having said that I have'nt yet settled on one do it all MT, I'm having too much fun using them all. Does anyone know of an MT that will take metric allen bits up to 8mm or so?

The full size Zilla does.

[cliosguy]

well at first i thought that the OH thing was just a marketing thing, when i carried my spirit the knife worked just as fine as any other knife so i never saw the point of the having a OH knife, but then i realize that sometimes it is useful to have that OH access specially when im using my other hand to hold a really expensive and heavy ISP grade switch. So maybe it could be at some point a marketing thing but its definitely useful in some situation, thats why i got the surge and so far its been serving me great as a tool not only as a knife

i mean, i think i can EDC the spirit any time and it wont fail me, it never has, but if i can get the hole thing(OH access and heavy duty MT) on one tool, well, why not?

I reckon for the Average Joe the knife should be discreet, functional

i hear you about the discretion part, sometimes when i take out the blade of my surge and people stare at me like if i was a threat or something(maybe mostly cuz of the size), completely opposite with the spirit(again, maybe cuz of the size , but i guess the friendly shape helps too)

well thats my opinion

[Sea Monster]

I wonder if you can Spyder-Drop a Surge?


(Just tried. The biggest issue seems to be breaking your wrist on account of various laws of physics and that, when flicked, the surge has a relative mass equal to Jupiter.)

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

(Just tried. The biggest issue seems to be breaking your wrist on account of various laws of physics and that, when flicked, the surge has a relative mass equal to Jupiter.)

[Dunc]

Very interesting thread . This has got to be down to personal taste and different situations you find or put yourself in .If local laws werent a problem then my ideal carry would be a multitool and a high end OH locking folder at all time . The Spirits good because the blade doesnt look threatening and the same goes for other non locking SAKs .One handed knife deployment is at times very handy and once you are used to one then you really miss it when half way up a ladder or leaning over the side of a boat etc. There most definitely is a need for OH openers and some people like to carry just one tool and combine the both while others like a dedicated knife .

Dunc

[DaveK]

Very well thought out points Kymg, I think I probably concur with the other replies on how useful a knife is, i.e. it's a matter of personal preference. For my own part, I don't use the knife on my Charge that often at all, (although I have found the OH opening useful on more than one occasion), but my thinking is "why not have it there"?

The reality is, for general MT purposes, I'd guess that 99% of people could manage with a PST, but if there are "enhancements" made on any manufacturers offerings - why not use 'em?

[kymg]

Well I had no idea this thread would create so much interest.

The gist I am getting is that everything is personal preference. I also understand that the type of tool will be determined by the purposes for which it is used. I personally don't have need for a large knife and have got away with my little Old Timer for a number of years now. (It is a favourite and when I saw the price of a new one decided I would be vary careful with it. It is pretty well worn but that just shows how much it is 'loved').

I guess what I was trying to get at is, that for an every day MT for everyday type use then a MT with a knife suits me better than a knife with a MT. There are occasions I am sure when leaning over the side of a boat to slice a line would see the benefits of OH opening. I am not in situations like that and simply having a simple small bladed knife on me is pretty handy for all manner of uses - today sharpening my pencil when I was scoring at Cricket for example, or opening a box or strippng wires for electronics.

I reckon Magic Bus hit the nail on the head when he said

          "For me a multitools' real world usefulness is defined by the sum of it's tools, rather than any emphasis being placed on a  blade or blades."

I am sure that my Spirit will see plenty of use and so far I am happy with my 'big SAK'.

Cheers and Beers

[LatinoHeat]

I agree with what some have said as far as speed verses practicaliity when it comes to the one handed opening of the blades.  It is handy for me, specially at work when I may be in waist deep water holding up a rope that needs to be cut.  I am surrounded by alligators, and really don't have the luxury of looking for the blade in the tool, so I reach under water, take the Wave out of it's sheath (yes, my Wave gets submerged on a regular basis with no real rust to speak of), and open the blade with one hand.  It doesn't matter how fast I can reach it, it's all about how easy I can reach it.  Also the sheeple friendliness of a multitool makes a big difference to me.  Speaking to my neighbor, who is a police officer, I asked him what is considered a weapon, and showed him my Case Peanut pocket knife, which has a blade not even three inches long.  It's a tiny knife.  He said TECHNICALLY, yes, it is a weapon as per the law.  I then showed him my Wave, with the much bigger blades, and he said that while yes, it could be considered a weapon, the fact that it is not a knife, but a tool with many tools INCLUDING blades makes it less offensive.  Reminds me of when Def told us the post 911 story about airports making the facilities crew remove their SAKs because they weren't allowed to carry weapons, and then issuing LM Waves to them all.  Strange, yes, but this acceptability of the Multitool makes a big difference to me, which is whgy I use it as not only my multitool, but also as my knife.  I have it all in one tool.  WHy not, you know?

[cliosguy]

I wonder if you can Spyder-Drop a Surge?


(Just tried. The biggest issue seems to be breaking your wrist on account of various laws of physics and that, when flicked, the surge has a relative mass equal to Jupiter.)

never saw it that way, ill try to be careful from now on

[zepla]

I'm with the people who like the OHO knife. On a tool or a folder. It is not a case of speed but (for me) there are plenty situations I just have one hand left to get a knife. Like other peaple mentioned before. About the threatening aspect, well nobody sees the knife unless needed and then everybody is happy I have a knife with me, big or small. And does a wave or skeletool knife really does look that threatening?

About the knife/MT or MT/knife question. My preference is to carry as little as possible with me and still get done what I want. For me that means, knife pliers and a screwdriver for 90% of the time. That's why I'm so happy with the Skeletool. If I go on longer (sailing)trips I go with the wave.

BTW, a locking meganisme should be a must for everyone if you ask me. For me that is one of the main reasons a do not like SAK's. Or am I the only idiot who has got finger between a knife and the handle 

[cliosguy]

BTW, a locking meganisme should be a must for everyone if you ask me. For me that is one of the main reasons a do not like SAK's. Or am I the only idiot who has got finger between a knife and the handle 

It happen to me too brother...pretty nasty cut it was

[Anthony]

I've never EDCed a OHT multitool...instead I carry a dedicated OHO folder.  The dedicated knife easier to grab clipped to my pocket rather than taking a tool out of a sheath.

One thing I haven't heard mentioned is that the "ease" of using two hands to open a blade with a nail nick depends on you having two hands.  What if something happened to one of your hands/fingers?  I'm not talking of total amputation...but what if you broke a thumb or something?  That's when one handed knives/tools come in really handy.

[AndyTiedye]

A nail nick can be used with one hand.
http://web.mac.com/andytiedye/Site/oh-opening.AVI