Anyone know about ABC watches?

[DoughDTD]

I'm looking to pick up my first ABC (Altimeter, Barometer, Compass) watch for a college graduation present to myself  .  I've done alot of research into the quality and accuracy of different brands and have boiled it down to the following three choices, and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with them:

Casio Pathfinder PAW-1300-3V



Suunto Vector



Highgear Alterra


I know there's gotta be at least ONE of you guys out there who enjoys a good piece of dorky wrist computer gadgetry as much as I do!

Lookin forward to hearing your input guys!

-Dough

*quick edit* Noth, I see you have the absolutely B-E-A-YOU-TEE-FULL negative display Casio 1300.  I'd love to get that one, but the price difference is $180 for the green positive display to $320 for the black negative display    How are you getting along with it so far?

[Medic82]

I'm looking to pick up my first ABC (Altimeter, Barometer, Compass) watch for a college graduation present to myself  .  I've done alot of research into the quality and accuracy of different brands and have boiled it down to the following three choices, and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with them:

Casio Pathfinder PAW-1300-3V
(Image removed from quote.)


Suunto Vector
(Image removed from quote.)


Highgear Alterra
(Image removed from quote.)

I know there's gotta be at least ONE of you guys out there who enjoys a good piece of dorky wrist computer gadgetry as much as I do!

Lookin forward to hearing your input guys!

-Dough

*quick edit* Noth, I see you have the absolutely B-E-A-YOU-TEE-FULL negative display Casio 1300.  I'd love to get that one, but the price difference is $180 for the green positive display to $320 for the black negative display    How are you getting along with it so far?

I don’t got a ABC watch but I got this one. A Suunto D4 dive computer


I love the products that comes from Suunto and they are top notch quality, at least when it comes to dive computers. I have been eying some ABC watches my self and if I where to buy one it would be this one.

The Suunto X10

[Nikos]

*quick edit* Noth, I see you have the absolutely B-E-A-YOU-TEE-FULL negative display Casio 1300.  I'd love to get that one, but the price difference is $180 for the green positive display to $320 for the black negative display    How are you getting along with it so far?

It's a great watch. I've still to put it side-by-side with my GPS to be able to measure its accuracy but the readings seem reasonable. The thermo is a bit off if you try to get a reading with your watch on, as it's affected by your wrist temperature. Taking it off for a couple of minutes does the trick. I got it for like $150 on eBay, so I'd suggest you look around if you're into that kind of stuff. That said, I'd probably go with a Suunto if I could afford it.

[DoughDTD]

My worry about the Suunto is that the vector was their first ever ABC and is their oldest design and technology.  I personally love the look, as well as the leveling bubble for the compass, and the price!  I have heard nothing but great things about the accuracy of Highgear ABC's, and you can get the alterra for 90 bucks at deluth trading which is awesome.

What specific model is yours, the PAW-1300Y-1(atomic US version), the PRW-1300Y-1(atomic non-US version), or the PRG-110Y-1(non atomic non-US version)?  I found a seller on ebay who sells the PRG-110Y-1 with free shipping for 200, but I'm worried it might be a counterfeit as its coming from Singapore.  The only legitate dealer for the negative displays in the US is Amazon (amazon exclusive model) for the PAW1300Y-1 which goes for like $320.  Personally, the atomic feature is cool but not a dealbreaker for me, which is why I wouldnt mind just grabbing a PRG-110Y-1, especially because all of the units are able to switch between standard and metric anyway.

-Dough

EDIT- I'm aware of the thermo problem.  The funny thing is, the thermo sensor isnt really meant for reading ambient temperature.  They advertise it as such to show it has an additional feature, but in reality its just needed to read the temperature of the barometer sensor in order to make accurate altitude or barometric measurements.  If its on your wrist and effected by your body heat, thats fine as long as the watch "knows" that when calculating measurements for those other two readings.

[Benner]

My worry about the Suunto is that the vector was their first ever ABC and is their oldest design and technology.  I personally love the look, as well as the leveling bubble for the compass, and the price!  I have heard nothing but great things about the accuracy of Highgear ABC's, and you can get the alterra for 90 bucks at deluth trading which is awesome.

What specific model is yours, the PAW-1300Y-1(atomic US version), the PRW-1300Y-1(atomic non-US version), or the PRG-110Y-1(non atomic non-US version)?  I found a seller on ebay who sells the PRG-110Y-1 with free shipping for 200, but I'm worried it might be a counterfeit as its coming from Singapore.  The only legitate dealer for the negative displays in the US is Amazon (amazon exclusive model) for the PAW1300Y-1 which goes for like $320.  Personally, the atomic feature is cool but not a dealbreaker for me, which is why I wouldnt mind just grabbing a PRG-110Y-1, especially because all of the units are able to switch between standard and metric anyway.

-Dough

I have the Suunto Advisor which is basically a Vector with a heart rate monitor I believe, and it is very rare that I wear anything else.  Everything works really well on it and despite being kicked and whacked about A LOT it is still in one piece and continues to work flawlessly.

One issue I have is that the menus etc aren't the easiest to work out unless you actually read up on what you are doing (I haven't).  The basic of functions are easy to get to though and even the compass can be re-calibrated pretty easily.

Got a feeling the Vector and Advisor are pretty much the same size, so if you want any comparison pics let me know.

[Nikos]

What specific model is yours, the PAW-1300Y-1(atomic US version), the PRW-1300Y-1(atomic non-US version), or the PRG-110Y-1(non atomic non-US version)?  I found a seller on ebay who sells the PRG-110Y-1 with free shipping for 200, but I'm worried it might be a counterfeit as its coming from Singapore.  The only legitate dealer for the negative displays in the US is Amazon (amazon exclusive model) for the PAW1300Y-1 which goes for like $320.  Personally, the atomic feature is cool but not a dealbreaker for me, which is why I wouldnt mind just grabbing a PRG-110Y-1, especially because all of the units are able to switch between standard and metric anyway.

It's a PRG-110Y. I've no use for atomic timekeeping and I've read some complaints about it anyway. IIRC I got mine from a guy in Singapore as well; I can dig out his eBay handle if you want.

[DoughDTD]

oh that would actually be a big help, i'm worried about getting a knockoff and would feel a little more safe if you give me the goahead.  The two singapore dealers on ebay for that watch right now are "watches-bay" and "takashi1955"''

How do you like the negative display, is it nice and crisp?

-Dough

[Nikos]

None of the two actually. PM inbound on the seller.

As for the negative display, it's a nice feature. Makes reading the time somewhat easier imo, but then again I didn't have a watch for the last several years.

[DoughDTD]

Benner, I'd love to get some pics and a bit more info about the watch.  How indepth do you use the features?  Also, how exactly does the Heart Rate Monitor work?  I know it attaches to a belt, but thats the extent of my knowledge. 

-Dough

[cgk]

No help on the watch, congrat's on your pending graduation though!!

[DoughDTD]

Already done, happened on may 12th    too bad theres not a job in sight haha

[cgk]

Already done, happened on may 12th    too bad theres not a job in sight haha

Hang in there....thats why parents build houses with basements.

[Benner]

Benner, I'd love to get some pics and a bit more info about the watch.  How indepth do you use the features?  Also, how exactly does the Heart Rate Monitor work?  I know it attaches to a belt, but thats the extent of my knowledge. 

-Dough

Basically, each function is accessed by scrolling through the menu by just pressing one button and this works well and is simple until you need to take it any further than that and that's where you need to actually know what you are doing (unlike me  ).  I basically use it for the time (obviously), altmeter which appears to work well, the compass which again works well and can be re-calibrated very easily and the themometer.  The themometer is actually pretty accurate and needs to be taken and left off the wrist for a bit to work best.  As for the barometer, well this does whatever it is meant to, I just don't know what it means  .

I don't actually have the HRM so can't comment on it's function I'm afraid.  It works wirelessly somehow but don't know how.

The actual unit is very solid and despite a lot of abuse it continues to work well.  It is quite a thick watch, but I'm not sure if it's the way it is shaped but it doesn't appear to look too chunky when you wear it so even skinny wristed little me can get away with it.

Battery changes are really easy as well, just one flat headed slot.  The battery covers are readily available as well and I replaced mine for just a couple of pounds.

Overall I am really pleased with mine.  The backlight works well, the display is very clear and the basic of functions are easy to get at.  One thing I have found with mine is that the bezel is very stiff to rotate.  That could however just be mine.

I will get some pics up for you later.  If there is anything you want a picture of it next to, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

[cb400bill]

If you like ABC watches, and who doesn't, I'd recommend reading this post by Raj from over at Watchuseek.com.  It explains in easy to understand terms how they work and how to get the most out of one.  As I just received a new Suunto Elementum Terra, I found this information quite helpful.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=266991

Altitude, Barometric Pressure and ABC Watches Explained

I’ve been watching the forum for some time and it occurs to me that there are a fair number of people who are confused about how the altitude and barometric functions of their ABC watches work. This seems particularly evident when they are trying to calibrate the pressure or the altitude and then cross check the readings or they are confused as to why the readings “drift”. Sometimes it’s a real issue with the watch but the majority of the time it’s a lack of understanding of how ABC’s work and the relationship between altitude and barometric pressure. Many of the more experienced members of the forum have answered these questions in the various postings but I thought it would be helpful to put an explanation of the issues/explanations in one spot. This is not intended to be a scientific explanation, but a simplified version so people will have a better understanding of how to use their ABC watch.

First, there’s a good detailed article on the subject of atmospheric pressure and relationship to altitude on Wikipedia here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosph...sure_variation
so forgive me if I lift from this article a lot. I’ve tailored this to ABC watch users but it works for altimeters and barometers also. Let’s get started.

Barometric Pressure - Barometric or Atmospheric pressure is sometimes defined as the force per unit area exerted against a surface by the weight of air above that surface at any given point in the Earth’s atmosphere. Basically we live at the bottom of a giant ocean of air and the weight of all that air above us exerts pressure on us. This is what the pressure sensor in an ABC watch is measuring.

This pressure varies across the surface of the earth. The most basic reason it can vary is because of a change in altitude. At sea level the average pressure is measured 1013.25 mbar (or hPa) or 29.921 inches of mercury (inHg). At 18,000 feet, the pressure would be roughly half of this. The definition of these measurements isn’t important. The point is that there is a direct relationship between altitude and air pressure. The higher you go, the less air there is above you, and therefore the less pressure is exerted on you.

Unfortunately, it gets more complicated than that. The atmospheric pressure also changes for reasons not associated with just altitude. There are multiple reasons for this (the Earth even has a twice daily global atmospheric pressure tide) but suffice it to say these high pressure zones and low pressure zones are very important to the climate and weather (which is why you see them mentioned so often on the weather forecasts).

Absolute Current Pressure vs. Mean Sea Level Pressure – We’ve discussed that high pressure zones and low pressure zones or important to weather forecasting. This is why there are so many weather stations across the globe that measure barometric pressure. The problem is that these stations are all at different altitudes. We know that altitude also affects the pressure. So how do you know if the weather station is measuring a low pressure zone or is just a low reading because it is at a high altitude? This is where the difference between Current Absolute Pressure and Mean Sea Level Pressure comes in. Let’s say you’ve got a weather station at 75m or 246ft above sea level. Its pressure sensor is reading 996 mbar or 29.43 inHg. This is referred to as the Absolute Current Pressure or the real pressure being felt at that weather station. If you know the altitude (in this case 75m) you can then use a formula to compute what the pressure would be if that station were theoretically dropped to sea level instead of 75m. This is referred to as the Mean Sea Level Pressure (and in this case it would be corrected to 1006mbar on 29.71 inHg Mean Sea Level Pressure). This number can now be used by forecasters to determine the pressure or mass of atmosphere in that area versus other surrounding areas. When you see an atmospheric or barometric pressure referred to in weather reports, it's almost always in Mean Sea Level Pressure.

Putting it all together in an ABC watch – Hopefully we now have a basic understanding of the relationship between Altitude, Current Absolute Pressure and Mean Sea Level Pressure. There is a formula that describes this relationship, however, it's pretty complicated so the simple way to summarize it is as follows: there is a direct relationship between Altitude and Current Absolute Pressure and Mean Sea Level Pressure. If you know two of the above factors, you can figure out the third with a version of the above formula. ABC watches always know one of the three factors because its pressure sensor is always measuring Current Absolute Pressure (by the way it does need to know temperature for this which is the real reason ABC watches have a temperature sensor. There are complaints that the temperature sensor is affected by body heat so you don’t get an ambient temperature reading, but the sensor is really there to measure temperature at the pressure sensor).

Since your ABC watch knows Current Absolute Pressure, if you then calibrate it by inputting the Mean Sea Level Pressure, it can then figure out the Altitude with the above formula. Or if you input the Altitude, it can figure out the Mean Sea Level Pressure. In real life, it’s easier to get an accurate altitude reference for calibration (either from Google Earth, markers, etc.) than to get an accurate Mean Sea Level Pressure reading (unless you’re very close to a weather station). This is why most people recommend calibrating to a known altitude. Note that some watches don’t even let you calibrate to Mean Sea Level Pressure, only to Altitude.

Once calibrated, the watch can now work in two ways. On Altitude reading or Barometer lock, it assumes the Mean Sea Level Pressure is not changing, so if its pressure sensor is sensing that the Current Absolute Pressure is changing, it must be because you are moving and your altitude is changing. On Pressure reading or Altitude lock, it assumes your altitude is not changing, so if the pressure sensor is sensing a change in Current Absolute Pressure, it must mean that Mean Sea Level Pressure is also changing i.e. a high pressure zone or low pressure zone is moving in. For watches that have an automatic function it usually assumes that a very fast change in Current Absolute Pressure is due to an altitude change and a very slow change in Current Absolute Pressure is a Mean Sea Level Pressure change. An ABC watch’s ability to tell if it is going through an Altitude change or a Mean Sea Level Pressure change is limited which is why these readings will “drift” over time unless calibrated.

Is calibrating to Altitude or Mean Sea Level Pressure important? It depends. If you’re using your watch for altitude, then somewhat yes because the watch needs to either start with the right Altitude reference or have a good Mean Sea Level Pressure reference to give you a good altitude number. If your using the watch for weather forecasting, then no. An accurate pressure number isn’t as important as the trend or change in pressure. If the pressure is rising, the weather is probably going to get better. If the pressure is falling, it’s probably going to get worse. It the pressure is staying the same, the weather is likely to stay the same. This is an oversimplification but it explains why it’s the trends that are important, not the number, and why good ABC watches will have a good trend graph capability.

Why do some watches let you calibrate Absolute Current Pressure? – Pressure sensors in ABC watches are like any other instruments and can sometimes lose calibration. That is they are not reading the Absolute Current Pressure correctly. Some watches let you correct for this and recalibrate the sensor. This is tricky business and you’d better have a good reference to calibrate to (and know what you’re doing). Whenever doing any pressure calibration, it’s important to know which pressure you’re adjusting. If you mistakenly input a Mean Sea Level pressure when you are supposed to input an Absolute Current Pressure, you are going to get some real screwy numbers.

As I said, I’ve taken some liberties with the science to make the explanation easier to understand. I think ABC watches are great tools but it’s important to understand the basics of the science to understand their limitations and use them effectively. Hopefully this helps.

[DoughDTD]

Thanks for the link, but I already beat you to that post  .  I understand the use, I'm just curious as to which would be best for me.  Heres what I gather (by no means absolute or comprehensive, just seems to be general trends)

casio pathfinders - least accurate, most rugged
suunto watches - middle accuracy, middle ruggedness
highgear altis/alterra - highest accuracy, lowest ruggedness


I think I'm going to end up going wiht either a 1300 or 1500 with the orange highlights and replaceable straps, or the 1300 with negative display.



-Dough

[DoughDTD]

My Casio Pathfinder PAW1500-1V just arrived, and I'm totally pumped!!! I cant wait to learn how to calibrate all of the features.  I'm off to read through the 1 inch thick manual!

-Dough