I think I need some help

[emptyhanded21]

I received a LM Juice Kf4 as a gift many years ago.  I carried it in my pocket most of the time and loved having it handy. (im sure you all know the feeling)  I used it for everything from cleaning grouse and squirrels to fixing broken firearms while in the field to pretty much every other thing you could do with that little MT.  A few months ago me and my friend were fishing and he preceded to catch a small bass which he couldn't get the hook out of.  I looked at the floor of the boat to offer him a needle nose pliers. We usually keep at least 2 needle nose pliers in the boat. (one in the front and one in the back) however, for some reason there was only one pliers and it was hidden by his tackle box at his feet so i didn't see it.  So i offered my Juice and preceded to tell him "Don't drop it in the lake!". which really meant "sit down in the middle of the boat and unhook your fish there where even if you drop it, it lands safely in the bottom of the boat."  but he said ok i wont drop it and preceded to unhook the fish while standing on the rear deck of the boat leaning over the water. Needless to say he dropped it in the lake about 20 seconds later.  Later on i grabbed a diving mask and attempted to retrieve my tool, but we were in the dirty part of the lake and could barely see a foot underwater.  So...now i need help, i have probably read every review and post on this site over the past few months and still have no idea which one i want to get as a replacement.  these are the models that i think would be the best EDC for me and my activities which i would take the MT on.  so far: Buck xtract LED, Juice Cs4 or Xe6, LM Charge, Skeletool, Gerber Crucial.  I have tried to weigh the pros and cons of each and would like any advice i can get.  The only thing i didn't like about my juice was no-locking blade.  So after my story (which was much longer than it needed to be) do you knowledgeable people on this site have any words of wisdom for me? Maybe some models that i havent considered?  any personnel expereicne of any of the tools above that might sway my opinion one way or another?  O and money is an issue so i can't just get all of them haha.  Thanks for the help and im sorry i had you all read that drawn out story.

[Freudian Frog]

Well first of all I'd like to ask... how did the tool selection on the Juice fare for you? What did you use most and what did you find unnecessary? Is weight an issue? How would you like to carry it, by clip, carabiner, sheather, or just pocket? Dedicated drivers or bits?

Blah blah blah, so on and so forth.

Also, would you consider carrying an extra SAK for the drivers and widgets and things? Is one tool the maximum? The Charge is far heavier than the other options. It's a little broad there, it'd help if you could go more in depth...

Perhaps you could review what you like and dislike about the Juice KF4 to help us out?

[emptyhanded21]

aaaa...yea, i knew i forgot something in my first post.  The tools i used the most was probably the two blades which i usually used interchangeably since they both cut pretty much anything.  then tools that i liked after that (probably in order): Pliers, screwdrivers (i probably would have used the saw more but its slip lock broke and wouldnt click into place)  tools i didnt like: i never used the file...hated it,  also (not on the Kf4) scissors...the ones i have felt and used never seem to work very well, but i a tool haveing these things wont stop me from considering it


i dont think weight is much of an issue...but size kinda is.  I will only carry by a sheath a couple times a year, if that. mostly front, back, and cargo pockets and maybe backpacks and jacket pockets. (i like the idea of a clip...and biners seem nice too)
i dont want to carry another tool/knife most of the time, camping and hunting are the only exceptions

The things i like about the tools that have made my list so far:
Xtract: large locking blade, LED, one hand opening
Cs4/Xe6: like Kf4 w/bottle opener and corkscrew
Charge: blades, bit drivers, large pliers, pocket clip option
Skeletool: biner, blade, size, pocket clip option, bits
Crucial: biner, blade, size, pocket clip option

The things im not so sure about:
Xtract: size, LED (is it somewhat water proof, can i wash the tool after i get it all bloody after cutting up a grouse?)
Cs4/Xe6: no locking blades (i really like locking blades)
Charge: price (depending), not sure how reliable the pocket clip lock thing is
Skeletool: looks a little awkward to hold when using the pliers, somewhat long tool without big pliers
Crucial: bits look sorta weird, also looks a little awkward to hold with big hands when pliers are out

I hope this helps. Thanks

[Chako]

-I would imagine the LED is not waterproof on the Buck.
-You are correct about no locking blades on the Juice series.
-The pocket clip is very reliable on the Charge series (AL, ALX, TTi)
-The Skeletool is awkward to hold when using the pliers.
-No clue about the Crucial.

You can always try and find a Kf4 off eBay. Or another very popular option is to find a Leatherman SideClip. You can also add a Clip to the Leatherman Kick...so you may want to take a look at that model as well. The Kf4 and SideClip are discontinued models, but you can still find them on eBay at times. All Charges do come with a clip, but its price is up there. You do get a small bit set with it, and the tool selection is very similar to the Wave and Surge line...which is great if you like removable stuff. The Skeletool, I would suggest you hold before you buy. I myself don't mind the curving handles, but it could be annoying to someone else.


The Buck Xtract is a nice lineup if you want one handed simplicity. However, the pliers aren't as good as a more traditional style multi-tool. Think of the Xtract line as a few functions tacked onto a knife. The focus is on the blade, and not on pliers like most other multi-tools.

May I suggest once you get yourself a replacement MT, to go to your local Wal-Mart and buy yourself a COAST PRO Fisherman Pliers. Another MT that isn't expensive, but excels at the fishing aspect. That could be your "carry if there is a danger of losing it multi-tool". It doesn't hurt half as much if you lose a 20 dollar tool.

Good luck on your decision.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'd say the Skeletool might be your best bet, as they are somewhat inexpensive and have just about everything you want, with the exception of the saw.  It covers blades (single blade only), screwdrivers (2x double ended bits= 4 screwdrivers) and pliers, plus the bottle opener which is perhaps the most important piece of equipment on any fishing trip! 

I might also suggest that you look into lanyards in the future, as I don't know of any tools that float!  As a bit of a boater myself (kayaker) I follow the basic rule that if it's not secured, it's not yours.

Here's an article I wrote a while back that may help some:
Practice Safe SAKs

Def

[Nikos]

IIRC some SAK packages come with a floater fob that could be handy when around water...

[Mr. Whippy]

I'd say the Skeletool might be your best bet, as they are somewhat inexpensive and have just about everything you want, with the exception of the saw.  It covers blades (single blade only), screwdrivers (2x double ended bits= 4 screwdrivers) and pliers, plus the bottle opener which is perhaps the most important piece of equipment on any fishing trip! 

I might also suggest that you look into lanyards in the future, as I don't know of any tools that float!  As a bit of a boater myself (kayaker) I follow the basic rule that if it's not secured, it's not yours.

Here's an article I wrote a while back that may help some:
Practice Safe SAKs

Def

Dude!
I'm definitely up for fishing with you. 

 

[Deere Man]

From your list of options, I would have to suggest the Charge.  I don't own one myself, but I have researched them pretty extensivley whilst dreaming about getting one myself.  It has a great layout of tools, and I think you would find the full size pliers nice after using a Juice.  It would seem that price is the only thing holding you back from the Charge.  I say go for it anyway as you will never regret saving up and spending money on a quality tool that you use a lot, especially if its your only tool (it doesn't sound like you have a whole collection).  If cost is an issue though, I would recommend looking at a Leatherman Wave.  It is basically the same tool, but with stainless steel handles and no gut hook.  A Wave can be picked up on ebay for $50 if you look around, but you would have to buy the pocket clip seperate.  

The skeletool is probably a good option if you want light weight and pocketable.  I might add that if you are looking seriosly at the larger juice series tools, pay close attention to how thick they are.  My wife's Xe6 is really thick.  I think it would be annoying in the pocket as it has no clip.  She carries hers in a belt sheath because of this.

Good luck and let us know what you decide. 

[ringzero]

Buck makes a model of the Xtract known as the Fin specially for fishing.  Has a plain edged blade, one-hand scissors, and rubbery coated grips.

Also consider the Gerber Flik Fish:
http://www.woodsmonkey.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=347:gerber-flik-fish-review&catid=68:multi-tools&Itemid=81
Flik Fish also offers one-hand plier access.

.
 

[LatinoHeat]

I'm gonna go against the grain here with my advice and recommend you buy two tools for the price of just one of the ones you mentioned.  I would get a Leatherman Kick.  Small, pocketable, extremely light, more then enough handle the day to day chores you mentioned, and has a knife, good drivers, can opener, and pliers.  No nonsense, no frills.  Just works.  I would also get a cheap, imported multitool to bring with you when out on the water.  If you want to bring your as well, by all means do so, but bring a cheapie as well as a lending tool.  Someone need a tool, your dedicated pliers are hidden or forgotten, hand them the chinese made pliers.  If they go overboard, no harm done.  You can always get another for ten bucks. 
Just my $.02 worth.

[Freudian Frog]

Sweet, now I don't have to have an opinion.

I'd suggest a skeletool or x-tract and an extra tool though, perhaps a nice SAK with a saw (*cough* farmer *cough*).

[Sazabi]

Umm, considering he dropped it, have you thought of having your friend replace the multitool he dropped?  It would make sense. >.>;

Anyway, in regards to which multitool to have the fallen KF4 replaced with, I'd suggest a Wave with a pocket clip added.  And please start using the lanyard rings to add lanyards - and /use/ them - whenever you're out on the water.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'd say the Skeletool might be your best bet, as they are somewhat inexpensive and have just about everything you want, with the exception of the saw.  It covers blades (single blade only), screwdrivers (2x double ended bits= 4 screwdrivers) and pliers, plus the bottle opener which is perhaps the most important piece of equipment on any fishing trip! 

I might also suggest that you look into lanyards in the future, as I don't know of any tools that float!  As a bit of a boater myself (kayaker) I follow the basic rule that if it's not secured, it's not yours.

Here's an article I wrote a while back that may help some:
Practice Safe SAKs

Def

Dude!
I'm definitely up for fishing with you. 

 

Def

[Anthony]

Choosing a tool is tough.  I read reviews here for more than a week until I finally bought a tool...comparing and contrasting drivers, one handed features, outside opening blades, locking mechanisms, etc.  The good part is, if you get a tool and it's not working for you for whatever reason, you can post it up here in the Sale/Trade forums.

A lanyard connecting the tool to your belt loop is a good idea...there are some out there that contract like an old telephone cord so it's not in the way. 

I'd also buy a good sized magnet and troll the area the tool was dropped in...the sooner the better.  A submerged Leatherman is a rusty leatherman.

[Mr. Whippy]

I'd also buy a good sized magnet and troll the area the tool was dropped in...the sooner the better.  A submerged Leatherman is a rusty leatherman.

That's a great idea. 

Def, I'm gonna PM you.

[emptyhanded21]

Thank you guys for all the responses.  I think im closer to makeing a decision, but i could just be more confused lol.  I was a step ahead of you guys as far as the magnet and lanyard go.  I put a large magnet around the area a day before i dove down with the snorkel gear.  A few days ago me and a buddy went fishing in a small local lake using my canoe, and the first thing i did (before i even got the life jackets or fishing gear out) was get a piece of cord and make a long lanyard to put on my BUCKLITE Tool which i have had since i was 14 or so and used as backup to my juice when i got it.  The lanyard worked great, I am glad i was able to learn from my mistakes haha.  I looked at the models that you all mentioned that weren't on my list  (Wave, Kick, etc.) and i have to say that i could get use to having a Wave, it looks really nice just like the charge.  Before creating this topic i was leaning towards the skeletool, crucial, or xtract but now i am leaning towards the Wave or Charge (one of them without the crimper in the needlenose most likely).  I looked at the Kick and the ones like it and they were very similar to my buck so i think i am going to wait until i have enough money coming in to get the kick and start a nice collection  ...or maybe i wont wait....nothing wrong with having two back ups!  I havent liked any of the tools that i have seen that have been dedicated to fishing.  something always seems funky with them, and i have more than enough fishing pliers of all sorts...i just need to remember to have them in the boat and not be in such a hurry to get another cast in when it comes to using my EDC.  Also, despite my best efforts, im on land most of the time and some of the features i think would get in the way more often than i would use them...but i dont know, the more i look at the fishing ones the more i like them (seems like that happens with every tool i look at).  I can see how a large collection could easily get started from a single tool and some curiosity!  Thanks everybody for all the help but i dont think i am going to beable to make up my mind any time in the near future...if anybody has any more thought or advice that might help, please dont hesitate haha

Nick

[Craig]

I'm going to give what seems to be the standard multitool.org advice as regards choosing tools from a shortlist:

When in doubt by them all

[Chako]

Hey, it worked for me! 

[WhichDawg]

between the Wave and Charge, I really liked the Wave in hand, and the better price!
a one hand opening blade (which you use the most) will be nice.

I also think the x-track is still a good idea, all the tools work great with one hand
and if the juice pliers were enough for you, the x-track pliers are enough for you.

the Skeletool has a really nice (big) one hand opening blade and yes the curves
are weird but not bad (once you get used to them).

I would also suggest getting yourself a SAK too (swiss army knife). tons of
choices, inexpensive (for most), reliable and many models are small enough
to have on you all the time.

Good Luck and Welcome to the MT Forum!

[cncguy]

A tool that might really be worth looking into for you is a swisstool spirit. Its more compact than a Wave (but not as compact as a skeletool or a juice), has locking tools and is a great overall multitool. I don't own one, but just read some reviews on it and you'll see its highly thought of by most of its owners.

[Poncho65]

  Welcome to the forum Good luck with whatever you end up choosing but if you were use to the Kf4 then I believe that the Wave will give you all it had plus the extras that you want

[emptyhanded21]

Recently i was able to hold, operate, and compare the wave, skeletool, and xtract.  once again i have gained info yet still remain further from a decision (or at least it seems like that).  I didnt mind the skeletools curveing handles as much as i thought i would...it seemed like a nice, light tool that i could easily get use to edc.  the wave was nice and i think it's in the lead as of now...for the price it seems like i would get a lot of things that i would end up using.  i was surprised at the size of the xtract's pliers and.....they were tiny, they were small even when i held them next to a juice. Because of the pliers i think the xtract is out of the running for now...but i plan on fiddling with it a few more times before i make such a rash decision. I took a look at the Spirit.  I dont like the idea of not having a straight edged blade...

Which one is better constructed, the Wave or the Charge TTI? which one will be less likely to let me down or have tool play? is the charge worth the extra money over the wave? the nicer steel and a couple of extra bits and cutting hook (all positives) and the crimper in the NN (a negative) is not  a whole lot of up-grade for almost twice the money...or is it?  anybody like one over the other?  any horror stories of one model messing up routinely or having more weak points in the quality of the blades, tools, and plier? is the 420 steel that bad? is that what the juice KF4 came with? 

sorry about all the ?s.  I should just buy one (or two) and get over it because i probably will like any of the ones i have narrowed it down to so far.  And i cant thank all of you enough for your responses, they have helped a lot.

[ari6126]

IIRC some SAK packages come with a floater fob that could be handy when around water...

Yep. Felinevet has them:
http://felinevet.sosakonline.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=710&category_id=541a03b2b0e1b6dbd972e9f5af5ca992&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=1

[Nikos]

Hey emptyhanded21,

The Spirit also comes in a couple of plain-edge blade configurations. Check out the Spirit S (two blades, no scissors) and Spirit X (PE blade and scissors).

The XTract pliers are indeed small and not that good a fit for heavy duty tasks but being all one-handed it does make for an overall nice EDC tool.

Between the Charge and the Wave, I'd go with the latter unless you absolutely need the better steel. The S30V on the TTi is a PITA to sharpen (at least freehand); I prefer their 154CM execution much better. Keep in mind that the super steels on the Charges are only about the PE blade; all of the other blades and tools use identical steel to the Wave. If you must have super steel, you could also go with an AL (losing the gutting hook) or an ALX (loosing the scissors).

[Mr. Whippy]

Wave and Charge are really more alike than different.   I personally prefer the Charge ALX because I like the guthook.  However, I prefer the pliers head on the Wave better.

Scale material is just window dressing IMO. 

If I placed more weight on scissors and/OR the pliers head without crimper, I'd go Wave and never look back.

If I placed more weight on the guthook and didn't mind losing the scissors, I'd go Charge ALX and not look back.

If I had to have both the guthook and scissors, Charge TTi (I think) is the only way to go. (I don't own one).

If you go with a Wave/Charge, try out the pocket clip.  It's one of my favorite features of them.

[Benner]

Don't rule out the X-tract just yet. I am a huge fan of the tool and although those pliers are small, I find them reasonably capable.  Plus the OH everything is a nice feature.