film SLR camera buyying advice

[yud]

also see http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,19846.new.html

[ryan1835]

If you are just starting, any low end DLSR camera will do you...possibly for ever if you don't need the latest greatest thing. I know a few Pros who use low end digitals. They take just as good a photo as the top end gear minus the weight, bells, and whistles...which honestly, doesn't make the photographer. With that said, everyone has different needs and that is why there is so much gear out there.

Just be careful. You may end up like me with a similar gear list. 

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3583080&postcount=720

christ!

maybe ill just go out and get a disposable and be on the safe side 

[Chako]

And miss out on all the fun! No way!

99.9% of my photos that I post in here are from my cheap Canon S5 IS. It excels at small object photography over any DSLR for several reasons.

1. Good Macro built in.
2. Moveable LCD screen that you can compose on.
3. Small and compact compared to a DSLR.
4. Also has an external hot shoe for great lighting hand held.

This is not to say that a DSLR can't do the job. In fact, most Macro lenses for a DSLR will easily beat the macro mode on any compact for optic quality and lack of distortion. However, most of the times, you won't notice these qualities in your shots, especially if all your doing are 800x600 web postings.

The DSLR will give you more control to a point. Better compacts still give you all the shooting modes like manual, program, shutter priority, etc. The DSLR however comes into its own for low light performance due to their larger sensors. They also excel at better images when it comes to higher resolutions due to their larger sensors, you can simply pack more light sensors with less electronic noise. You can also remove lenses, and an honest to goodness optical viewfinder will beat any EVF any day in my opinion. DSLRs also tend to give you more built in features like higher shutter speeds, faster motor drives, etc.

As for which camera to start off with, when you look into a DSLR, you have to do a little research in the system. An entry level camera is just that, an entry into the system of accessories that most photographers tend to like simply because they allow you to do things you couldn’t do before, or to simplify the process and make photography more enjoyable.

With that said, most starter DSLR cameras (I dislike the name, because that is just market mumbo jumbo to get people to spend on more expensive equipment they simply do not need) are good enough for most people.

Here is what I suggest you do and some things to consider…

1.   Try to handhold the camera. If it feels right to you…that is the one for you. Ergonomics is the biggest important thing most people ignore.

2.   They all take good photographs. Do not get tied up in photography forums where people tend to get a bit odd over camera equipment. You get a major fanboy syndrome and herd mentality on any camera gear forum. With that said, if you do your research right, you will know what you are getting before you get it.
 
3.   Prioritize what you are going to use the camera for. This is important.  Are you going to use it for low light indoor shots, action shots, family shots, etc… They will all do that, but some camera systems tend to do a better job than others. Here is an example. Actions photos tend to be the domain of Canon. You see at most sport events, those big white lenses. Those are Canons. Not because Canon makes a better action oriented body. I think Nikon does. But where canon excels is not their body, but their lenses. They tend to be a ton cheaper then Nikons. So if that sort of thing is important to you, do your research.

4.   I think most photographers are snobs. In fact, I know the industry is highly snobbish. You know it is bad when Canon came out with their first affordable DSLR Rebel years ago, the venerable Canon, people felt the silver body was cheap and started painting them black…because black is what the Pro’s use. The fact that a black body is a heat sink, which isn’t good for electronics when shooting outside all day in the sun, hasn’t stopped camera manufacturers from sticking with the mental herd. What I am trying to get here, you will see and talk to people who will tell you that you need a bigger better camera. That is hogwash. Most entry level cameras are more camera then what most people need. Now there are some good reasons for those higher expensive bodies. However, if you are just getting into it, don’t get sucked into that fur ball. You will probably never need to get a more expensive camera. But if you listen to the industry, they will tell you otherwise.

5.   It isn’t the camera body, but the lens that is most important. A lot of people focus on the camera. Why look, it has feature X and can do Y! However, the fact of the matter is that the camera is only as good as the lens you put on it. I told you I know a few pros that use cheaper bodies. What they didn’t skimp on…the optics. Now mind you, you won’t need Pro level optics unless you need pro level photos. Top glass is super expensive. When you get into the Canon L line, you know you are paying big bucks. The cheapest in the series retails for around 800 Canadian and can easily go upwards into the thousands.  Now, all lens makers offer different levels of lenses. You get your starter kit which is a good bang for your buck. There is a middle level and the top end gear. Most people are more than happy with the kit lens. I myself prefer the middle level if I can. You tend to get better build quality, better optics, and sometimes faster speeds. My point is that if you get a better lens, your pictures will turn out better.
 
6.   Just to show you how confusing this can be, be sure to get the kit lens if you can. You will save, and you may find that is all the lens you need. You may be pleasantly surprised at the quality of the kit lens. They keep improving them as time goes on. With that said, if you buy a DSLR and only keep the kit lens…then why did you get a DSLR in the first place? Do try later, a super telephoto, a super wide angle, a fisheye, a dedicated macro,  etc. Only get these extra lenses once you figured out your needs and compare them to your wants.

7.   Do not ignore the flash gun. This should be your first accessory you buy. Be sure that the flash has a rotating head for bouncing light off of the ceiling etc. Also, be sure it is dedicated to your camera. You might be able to save $$$ with a third party flash, but be warned. Do your research to be absolutely sure it will give you everything that the dedicated flash from the camera manufacturer gives you…especially in ease of use.

8.   I have big paws, and the nice thing about some DSLRs, is that they offer you a battery grip. I always buy one for every DSLR I have. This gives you two advantages and one disadvantage. An extra battery in the grip means double the shooting time, longer times between battery changes, etc. The battery grip also makes handling the camera that much more comfortable and convenient along with the extra shutter button for portrait shots. Long lenses will feel more manageable with a battery grip installed. The disadvantage is one of size. Now, not all entry level cameras offer this option. If this is important to you, then that is something you should look into before buying.

I can go on and on about this hobby, but I won’t.    

[ryan1835]

wow thanks alot for all that advice chako if you feel like going on and on pm me

its my bday next month so ill be waiting until then

ive been talking to 2 people i know who are quite keen and i can see what you mean about fanboyism ones a nikon user and the other a canon   though the guy with the nikon go for what feels best in the hand  

on another note i smurfed up rolling on the film on the pentax im using and wrecked the film i know how to do it properly now though i enjoyied using it though got some good snaps i think shame i wont ever see them though

[NutSAK]

99.9% of my photos that I post in here are from my cheap Canon S5 IS. It excels at small object photography over any DSLR for several reasons.

I'm pretty satisfied with my Canon IS also (S3), but it does have some issues that I don't care for.  The sensor is noisy to the point where anything above ISO 400 is useless, and it has difficulty focusing on objects at a distance of ~1-2 feet from the lens.  Hopefully they improved on this with the S5.  Having a DSLR with a larger sensor would take care of the noise issue.

The IS does take really nice video with stereo audio though.

[ryan1835]

all the photo s ive posted are from my samsung wb500 http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/camera-camcorder/digital-cameras/compact/EC-WB500BBP/GB/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail

would an entry level dslr be a big step up ? by the way ive never studied photography just read up on it a bit

[yud]

Nope the biggest thing will be useing a viewfinder. DSLRs have the same auto modes that most camreas do, and are useful while you learn the camrea's non-auto modes, and when you don't want to fiddle with the camera.  Trial and error works fine in photogrphy, but I have found Popular Photography's website to be very useful: http://www.popphoto.com/

[jekostas]

And miss out on all the fun! No way!

99.9% of my photos that I post in here are from my cheap Canon S5 IS. It excels at small object photography over any DSLR for several reasons.

dSLRs have greater control over depth of field due to the larger sensor.  Nothing personal, but from a purely photographic perspective that trumps anything a Canon S5is can do (not that the S-series ultrazooms aren't great cameras - I've owned 2).

If you're looking at an entry level dSLR, all the options are pretty well equal in terms of functionality.  It's only when you start expanding your collection of lenses/gadgets/extras and get in to some serious shooting that you'll start noticing differences, and each company does something well.
Olympus has the best lenses and tends to be overall the smallest.  Nikon has the best low-light shooting and wireless flash system.  Canon has the largest selection of lenses and accessories.  Pentax tends to offer more "bang for the buck" in terms of feature set.  Sony has the best Live View system.

I personally shoot Olympus and have for a number of years now.

[jekostas]

would an entry level dslr be a big step up ? by the way ive never studied photography just read up on it a bit

Yes.  The speed difference in terms of focus, shot-to-shot and flash recycling will be stark.  Whether or not you actually get better pictures out of the deal is up to how much you want to put in to practicing with the camera, but the camera is capable of better pictures.

[Chako]

Wow. Some people seem to take my statement of the Canon S5 IS a bit to heart. 

Yes and no. It all depends. See my signature for the answer to that one.

[yud]

There are also great 3rd party lens makers like Sigma and Tamron.  I use my Sigma 2/3 of the time.

[Zack]

wow thanks alot for all that advice chako if you feel like going on and on pm me

its my bday next month so ill be waiting until then

ive been talking to 2 people i know who are quite keen and i can see what you mean about fanboyism ones a nikon user and the other a canon   though the guy with the nikon go for what feels best in the hand  

on another note i Colorful Enunciationed up rolling on the film on the pentax im using and wrecked the film i know how to do it properly now though i enjoyied using it though got some good snaps i think shame i wont ever see them though

Let me guess you didn't press the button on the bottom and the teeth on the gear tore your film?

[Chako]

 

I have done that once or twice in the past.

[ryan1835]

embarrassingly and annoyingly yes  wont be doing that again...

[Zack]

Happens to everyone, but like you sad you won't be doing it again.  You could have saved the shots you took if you just take the film out in a darkroom.  Unless you were shooting color film, then that has it own share of challenges.

[ryan1835]

it was color, and i didnt realise what id done till i opened it, first few films are about getting used to the camera anyway XD got a black and white one in there now 

[ryan1835]

im thinking of getting either a nikon d5000 or a sony alpha 450l ive lloked at the canons and olympus's but i dont particularly like them...

opinions please 

[yud]

I'd go Sony I love mine ,




However I have not seen anything on the 450

[Zed]

for years i used cannon's F1 i also still like olympus OM1's and the OM10 , also cannons AE1 is a good camera, all good . i loved processing my own film, been many years, i just fing new technology so much easier, but not as much fun plus still love the look of old SLR's i like twin lens reflexes as well medium format, great for doing  BL pics 

[ryan1835]

im after a dslr now zed burthday next month...

[Chako]

Seeing that nobody really makes a bad camera these days, go for the one that feels the most comfortable in your hands.

[ryan1835]

i thought as much  the advantage with the nikon is it has a posistional screen, ive used one before and its quite nice. Just need to get my hands on the sony to try.

Yud are there alot of lens's and filters ect for the sonys?

[yud]

pretty much any filter will work on any lens so long as they are the same size so don't worry about filters

There are about half as meny lenses out with the sony mount as there are for the nikon, but there is a good selection.  But find a good dealer over there and look at there selection, like in the US these guys are knig of the hill http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ then consisder if one has a leg up when it comes to lenses, after all you only need one 70mm-300mm lens.

Oh and another thing (I found out the hard way) remenber the extra cost of a bag a good slr bag can be $100 more or less my was $70 but it was worth it and something to remenber

Also the a450 must be a European I can't find it over here

[ryan1835]

yeah i'll probably get a bag the same time as i get the camera


heres a reveiw i found http://www.dpreview.com/news/1001/10010506sonya450.asp

[Zed]

im after a dslr now zed burthday next month...

I dont blame you mate, technology has moved on from the 35mm days 

[Mr. Whippy]

im after a dslr now zed burthday next month...

Keep the Canon Digital Rebel series (XT, etc) in the decision matrix.  Good camera and good glass.

[ryan1835]

yeah i know they are, but i just dont like the way the canon 450d/100d feels in my hand 

[Zack]

Keep in mind the Sony mount (Alpha mount) is the same as the old Minolta Maxxum mount.  You can get second hand minolta lenses for nearly nothing nowadays.  The 70-210 "Beercan" lens was a mainstay in my bag and on my camera when I shot Minolta.  Constant f4 and very nice bokeh, made it a great portrait lens.  It will act a little longer due to the crop factor, but would be great for wildlife shots.

[ryan1835]

thats nice to know  zack im really beginning to like the sony's ill be going shopping for on in a week or two ill let you all know what i get 

[nuphoria]

You could do a lot worse than buying my Kata case that's for sale - ask the chaps who saw it at the meet, it's a seriously good bit of kit at a silly price now
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,19774.0.html


The specs are on the link to see what the internal dimensions etc are.