Revisions to Wave/Charge series scissors thumbpad

The Copilot · **on:** July 06, 2011, 06:48:33 PM

Anybody else notice what appears to be a "rolling change" to the scissors thumbpad on the Wave/Charge series tools? In the image below, the older style of the thumbpad is on the left (on a Wave with a date code of 0206) and the new style thumbpad on the right (on a Charge Tti with a date code of 0311). From my observations, this new style thumbpad seems to be something that has appeared within the last year (2010/2011) because I have seen some 2010 dated tools with the old style thumbpad. From a comfort point of view, I much prefer the old style.

Do you suppose this was an "ease of manufacturing" change so that not as much metal had to be bent 90 degrees to create the thumbpad? What is the earliest date code with that new style thumbpad that you have observed?

David · **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2011, 07:26:39 PM

Good observation Copilot. I hadnt noticed that so dont have any answers for you. Maybe Bob knows?

Dunc · **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2011, 10:31:50 PM

Well spotted

J-sews · **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2011, 04:52:20 AM

Quote from: David on July 06, 2011, 07:26:39 PM

Good observation Copilot. I hadnt noticed that so dont have any answers for you. Maybe Bob knows?

Nope, that's news to me too. Good spot Copilot!

I wonder why they would make this change?

Once you have a stamping die built and pounding out parts, there would only be two reasons I can think of to change it:

a) in order to correct some sort of problem

b) in order to "improve" the part in some way

I can't think of how either one of these would apply though..?

J-sews · **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2011, 05:12:45 AM

Seems like this same change would be seen on Blast and Fuse tools too? But I've got date codes of 1110 and 1010 that still have the "old" scissor lever.

The Copilot · **Reply #5 on:** July 07, 2011, 06:04:23 AM

To add to the mystery, I have seen two Waves with old style thumbpads that had the underside of the thumbpad ground off to make it very thin. I know that these were factory grinds because one of the tools was still in the clampack at Home Depot. Makes me think that some sort of an issue developed with getting good quality bends on the thumbpads so they re-worked the design. Wish we could get some input from Leatherman on why this change was made.

J-sews · **Reply #6 on:** July 07, 2011, 06:16:59 AM

Quote from: The Copilot on July 07, 2011, 06:04:23 AM

To add to the mystery, I have seen two Waves with old style thumbpads that had the underside of the thumbpad ground off to make it very thin. I know that these were factory grinds because one of the tools was still in the clampack at Home Depot. Makes me think that some sort of an issue developed with getting good quality bends on the thumbpads so they re-worked the design. Wish we could get some input from Leatherman on why this change was made.

Ahh, good thought. I have a black oxide Blast with the same grinding marks.

genevabuck · **Reply #7 on:** July 07, 2011, 06:54:01 AM

There is one major reason that LM or any other major company would do this....to save money and increase profit. There was nothing wrong with the old thumbprints, so,IMHO, there is no other reason to make the change. It's a major resssion boys, and LM is going with the flow, as is evident with their upcoming models. I don't blame them.

David · **Reply #8 on:** July 07, 2011, 07:17:14 AM

I went and looked through all the Fuses, Blasts, Wave, Charges and all have the older style thuimbpad. The newest one is a camo Fuse dated 0610 it also has the grinding on the bottom side of the thumbpad.

Tofty · **Reply #9 on:** July 07, 2011, 07:56:14 AM

just looking at my wave with these new scissors i'm wondering if the change in design isn't to allow the scissors to fit into an as yet unreleased tool.

genevabuck · **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2011, 09:00:52 PM

Quote from: Fatchappers on July 07, 2011, 07:56:14 AM

just looking at my wave with these new scissors i'm wondering if the change in design isn't to allow the scissors to fit into an as yet unreleased tool.

Very possible. Maybe new pliers.

J-sews · **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2011, 03:33:10 AM

Like I said, changing the stamping dies would COST money, not SAVE money.

I'm with Copilot, I think the change is in response to some problem they were having.

The Copilot · **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2011, 11:41:01 PM

Anybody else willing/able to check the date stamps and thumbpads on their Waves, Charges, Fuses, Blasts, etc....

J-sews · **Reply #13 on:** July 12, 2011, 01:53:03 AM

Quote from: The Copilot on July 11, 2011, 11:41:01 PM

Anybody else willing/able to check the date stamps and thumbpads on their Waves, Charges, Fuses, Blasts, etc....

And do we have any Leatherman Facebook members who could ask there about the reason for this change?

turnsouth · **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2011, 02:20:02 AM

Quote from: J-sews on July 12, 2011, 01:53:03 AM

And do we have any Leatherman Facebook members who could ask there about the reason for this change?

Done

EDIT: Juli from Leatherman is looking into it, and will get back to me.

jerseydevil · **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2011, 02:46:57 AM

Just took a look at my Wave dated 1210. It has the old style thumbpad with the grinds.

Cleanser · **Reply #16 on:** July 12, 2011, 03:14:56 AM

Charge TTI, new style thumb pad with a date 2010

The Copilot · **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2011, 04:50:39 AM

Quote from: jerseydevil on July 12, 2011, 02:46:57 AM

Just took a look at my Wave dated 1210. It has the old style thumbpad with the grinds.

These ground down thumbpads really puzzle me. They seem to be showing up on 2010 scissors.

turnsouth · **Reply #18 on:** July 12, 2011, 08:38:56 PM

We have an answer:

"We redesigned the spring on the Wave scissors. We found this caused the “old pad/scissor spine” to interfere with the jaw when closing. So…We ended up redesigned the entire spine (including the thumb pad you saw) of the scissor half, so that it would not interfere with the jaw when closing. Here is a picture so you can see what I mean. Hope this helps." ~ Leatherman

EDIT: I asked: "Why the spring redesign in the first place?" Answer: "We needed to make the modification for better performance."

The Copilot · **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2011, 08:48:07 PM

Quote from: turnsouth on July 12, 2011, 08:38:56 PM

We have an answer:

"We redesigned the spring on the Wave scissors. We found this caused the “old pad/scissor spine” to interfere with the jaw when closing. So…We ended up redesigned the entire spine (including the thumb pad you saw) of the scissor half, so that it would not interfere with the jaw when closing. Here is a picture so you can see what I mean. Hope this helps." ~ Leatherman

This is great. Somebody must have an inside connection to get answers from the company (or did you just submit the question to Customer Service?)!

Now we have an explanation for the grinding marks that we were seeing on 2010 tools and the shift to the new thumb pads on many of the 2011 tools.

turnsouth · **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2011, 08:54:37 PM

Quote from: The Copilot on July 12, 2011, 08:48:07 PM

This is great. Somebody must have an inside connection to get answers from the company (or did you just submit the question to Customer Service?)!

Leatherman has a "fan page" on FaceBook. They also have a very capable representative that spends a great deal of her day answering pretty much every question asked.

Here she is on YouTube:

The Copilot · **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2011, 09:05:04 PM

Great resource. Thank you for telling me about it!

J-sews · **Reply #22 on:** July 13, 2011, 01:31:29 AM

Thanks for tracking this down Paul!

turnsouth · **Reply #23 on:** July 13, 2011, 04:23:09 AM

Quote from: J-sews on July 13, 2011, 01:31:29 AM

Thanks for tracking this down Paul!

No problem, I was looking for an excuse to bug Juli anyway

J-sews · **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2011, 05:10:23 AM

Quote from: turnsouth on July 13, 2011, 04:23:09 AM

Quote from: J-sews on July 13, 2011, 01:31:29 AM
Thanks for tracking this down Paul!

No problem, I was looking for an excuse to bug Juli anyway

Maybe next you could bug her about the low class hooligans she hangs out with...

turnsouth · **Reply #25 on:** July 13, 2011, 02:07:38 PM

Quote from: J-sews on July 13, 2011, 05:10:23 AM

Maybe next you could bug her about the low class hooligans she hangs out with...

(Image removed from quote.)

Na, I've never been a "name dropper", no mater how rich, popular and famous the people I know are...

J-sews · **Reply #26 on:** July 14, 2011, 05:24:03 AM

Dunc · **Reply #27 on:** April 17, 2012, 02:32:29 PM

I'm bringing this thread back because I've noticed something on the wave , with the new style thumb pad when the tool is closed ( with the scissors packed away inside the handle ) the handles don't meet . if you deploy the scissors then close the tool the handles do meet. So the new scissors design is stopping the handles totally closing , theres only a couple of mm gap.

Dunc

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Revisions to Wave/Charge series scissors thumbpad

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