What do you guys think of these Spydies?

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Hi all,

I'm working on putting a survival/bug-out bag together, and a good reliable fixed blade knife is the first thing I'm looking into.

I'm not talking about something cheap like the Big Rock I got a few weeks ago, or my Tenacious or the like.  I'm talking a serious, stake-your-life-on-it knife, that can be used for anything from being a machete, to cleaning and butchering an animal, splitting sticks for kindling, scraping a fire-steel, use as a spear-head, etc.  I've decided a budget of about $150 would be a good price point for this.

Right now I really like this one:

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=SPFB20FPBK

The holster got some bad remarks in the reviews, but I think it would actually be a good way to go, because with a really stiff sheath like that you can easily strap it to your lower leg or a pack and not worry about it whipping around and banging into stuff.  Seems like it would be a good fighter too, if needed.

Here's another I saw that I like, more for aesthetic reasons really, as I think the first one would be a better survival knife.  This one is a good bit past my chosen price range too, so I think it's lower on the list of consideration.

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SPFB05P2/spyderco-fb05p2-temperance-2-fixed-4-7-8-inch

Please let me know what you guys think, and suggestions for other knives for this purpose, Spydies or other manufacturer, would be welcome.

[AimlessWanderer]

Well if it was my money, I wouldn't buy one knife with that budget. I'd look at something like a carbon steel mora clipper, bahco laplander saw and something like a wetterlings hatchet (I think you might just get all those in that budget).

First of all you've chosen a stainless grade which I'm always dubious about for chopping duties (irrespective of what the knife makers say). Secondly with one knife you are putting all your eggs in one basket and if that one single solitary knife gets lost, broken or otherwise unusable .... you're in trouble. From a redundancy perspective, if you lose any one of those three items (loss or breakage) you can still get the job done. You can prepare game/fish and whittle with a knife or sharp hatchet, and process all the firewood and shelter materials you need with any two of the three (using the tools to make a baton and wedges will get you through big stuff). Many people will say ESSE, BUSSE or RAT big knife. The UK equivalent is probably the Nowills survival knife ... but I'd much rather have three efficient tools than one great hunking chunk of metal. You'll probably also find that there isn't that much of a weight penalty going for the trio either.

With the combo approach you've got chance of having a better tool for the job. Efficiency not only saves vital energy and minimises fluid loss to perspiration, but also gets the job done quicker (essential if you've got soaking wet and need to get a fire going QUICK) AND less chance of injury through overexertion or a tired worried mind doing something wrong.

I'm far from being an expert in such matters, but I'm pretty sure if I (personally) was trying to do everything with a honking knife instead - I'd lose energy quicker, lose heat quicker, get tired quicker, get dehydrated quicker, and get thoroughly miserable and dejected quicker than if I'd got the three tools mentioned - not to mention being worried about breaking/losing it. If I'm stopping at the boat for any length of time I'll use this exact combo to feed the solid fuel stoves to keep me warm and cook with ... why should I compromise all that efficiency, security and redundancy if I'm in a life threatening situation - surely that's when I need it most.

Of course the old adage still stands that what is in your head is more important than what's in your bag

...but of course, there is no right and wrong and many others will view me as loony for thinking all this 

[AimlessWanderer]

Aside from that, I've no experience with them, but they look very nice knives 

[Sparky415]

Or
If you are going to go for a bigish knife why not go for something really classy and hand made in the USA like two or three of the big boys on this page 


http://www.michaelmorrisknives.com/current.php   


Ooh And they will keep their value if you ever need to sell them 

[jekostas]

First, a little about the thought process behind what I'm going to say:
Use the proper tool for the job at hand.  If you're in a true survival situation, unless you train daily with your tools you're going to fall back to gross motor movements.  Depending on specific mechanical skills in such situations is a recipe for disaster.  In essence, I agree with what 50ft-trad is saying.

Get a smaller knife and a pocket chainsaw or bahco laplander/Gerber folding saw.  I really don't give a crap what most "experts" say, knives are not meant to fell trees or process wood.  The fact that some "can" do it, with proper technique, perfect conditions and lots of work is entirely besides the point.
Besides, a smaller, more controllable knife makes a better spearhead and is easier to gut and clean animals with.

I would also suggest a very tough steel like a 10XX series steel with a coating, or even a 440A/440B.  VG-10, while a very good steel for day to day use, is prone to chipping and breaking when used hard.  This is something I have personal, and unpleasant experience with.  That is NOT something you want to happen to a survival knife in a life or death situation.  Even something made from DIN1.4116 (which is the steel Victorinox and Wenger use) would be a better choice than VG-10.

Knives I would suggest instead:
Mora Clipper series in Carbon steel
Ka-Bar Short Utility or Short USMC

Any of those knives are inexpensive, lighter than either knife you listed, and have 40+ years of proven service in their designs.  Add something like a Gerber Sliding Saw or Bahco Laplander to a Ka-Bar Short Utility and you have a for the same weight as the Spyderco Rock you get substantially more utility at half the cost.  Or, add a Supreme pocket chainsaw or a Coghlan Sierra folding saw and you get more utility for less weight.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Thanks for the suggestions guys...  I've definitely been thinking about a pocket chainsaw for this bag.

I guess I should have been more clear though, strictly speaking I wasn't planning on not carrying some sort of saw, I just have to decide whether I want a folding one or a pocket chainsaw.  I've had a 21" Sven Saw that I've used for family camping for a few years now, and only in the past year or so has the blade become noticeably dulled.  I like the light weight of it, and how it collapses, but it's flexy so if you're not good on your form while using it, it binds up.  I was thinking about one of the folding hacksaw style survival/camping saws instead. 

With respect to the knife, durability and utility are the two main things I want.  I want something that's going to hold its edge well, but not chip or break either.  I had been thinking that a mid-grade steel would be best for that, rather than some really expensive top-end steel.  I'm wondering if something with removable scales would be a good idea for cleaning or use as a spearhead.

The reason I asked about cutting wood with a knife is that I wasn't planning having an axe or hatchet type of tool, mainly for weight/bulk reasons.  I've yet to see a decent hatchet that can really do what you'd expect an axe to do.  If anyone has any suggestions on a high quality capable hatchet, I'd love to hear them, and whether or not one is a necessity for a survival bag.

I guess I should have lead off with this one, but I want this bag to have stuff I need to survive in the wilderness for extended periods of necessary.  I want to have the equipment to make shelters, wooden tools and the like, hunt for small game, and so on.  While I was planning on putting a firesteel in it, I don't want to rely on it as it's a limited resource and would prefer to make my own firebow and drill for that kind of longer term use.

It might sound kind of crazy, but I really think it's a good idea for me to be planning this out for long term survival situations.  While I try to have hope that things are going to get better, I do genuinely worry that in the future such preparations will become a necessity, and make the difference in surviving for myself, my wife, and my kids.

Again, thanks for the info and food for thought.  It's helpful. 

[jekostas]

You can split and cut wood pretty easily with a decent saw.  I've done it with both a pocket chainsaw and a Fiskars pruning saw (which the Gerber sliding saw is based on).

[AimlessWanderer]

Personally, I'd want an axe. In fact if I'd got something like an SAK in the bag I'd rather have a good hatchet than a fixed blade knife. No joke. I've hacked through and split some sizable chunks of wood with a hatchet then used it to make fuzzy sticks/shavings for tinder. I've not cooked dinner with one yet, but have no doubt I could if needed.

As for which hatchet, well my exposure is limited - which in turn makes me baised. Gransfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet is superb, a wonderful piece of equipment. If that's too long for the bag they do another version (can't remember the name) which is the same head on a much shorter shaft. To put it in perspective, I have heard that the GB Mini (which has a smaller head) was conceived for cold water fishermen so they could process fish with thick mittens on (don't know if that's true or just cyberbabble - but it'd certainly do the trick).

I'm also expecting a Roselli axe coming tomorrow which is more of a bearded axe. This allows choking up even closer on the head giving almost an ULU knife capability and the unusual grind etc does by all accounts make this a very versatile piece of equipment ... but until I've had chance to play with it this weekend at the UK meet I'm just working on other peoples (people who I don't know) opinions.

I also have a Vaughan Mini which is quite reasonable - but not great. It's a lovely sized little tool for delicate work (though can be used above it's weight if you've got the knowhow), but ... the first one I got via mail order I hasten to add was horrendously bad. The blade was off centre to the handle, not parallel, assymetrically ground and with a very striking diagonal grain on the shaft. I sent it back telling them it would be extremely dangerous in the hands of a novice such was the misalignments etc and should be binned. I also gave full instructions on what an axe should be like and they hand picked one for me from my instructions. It still needed touching up even then. Don't buy one online - only buy one if you can hold it first and check everything is as it should be.

Here's what one guy did with his ....
(Photo is by a guy called Old Jimbo on various forums - google his review on the Vaughan Mini for more info)

See the hatchet in the end face?

Wetterlings (owned by GB) is less of a gamble apparently as regards quality, but not as sure a bet as GB ... but that certainty does cost extra money.

Beyond that I've no significant experience with other brands - but don't write off the axe too quickly  Don't just chuck one in your bag and expect to conquer the world though - it takes a while to relearn how to use it efficiently and safely - and I consider myself still learning

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I'm also expecting a Roselli axe coming tomorrow which is more of a bearded axe. This allows choking up even closer on the head giving almost an ULU knife capability and the unusual grind etc does by all accounts make this a very versatile piece of equipment ... but until I've had chance to play with it this weekend at the UK meet I'm just working on other peoples (people who I don't know) opinions.

Thanks for the thoughts.  I saw a nice but expensive bearded axe that was really more a hatchet, on Knifecenter's site and it looked like it could also be used for skinning because of the shape of the head. 

[asupernothing]

In terms of what I think is best for a B O B, I would have to go with an ESEE Izula2. Its small enough to conceal, but still has enough knife to get the job done. I have one, and keep it in my SHTF/camping kit. I lashed a magnesium firestarter to it and a diamond file, so its more or less ready to go.

I used it on a trial run 2 weeks ago, and was able to start a nice fire fairly easily. It was raining, so as much as I dislike the idea of batoning, I had to split some wood to get to the dry stuff.

The Izzy is cheap enough to leave you budget for something else, and still be all you really need.

[AimlessWanderer]

I did like the look of their HEST but failed to grab one before they disappeared. Can't figure out why they discontinued those 

[AimlessWanderer]

I'm also expecting a Roselli axe coming tomorrow which is more of a bearded axe. This allows choking up even closer on the head giving almost an ULU knife capability and the unusual grind etc does by all accounts make this a very versatile piece of equipment ... but until I've had chance to play with it this weekend at the UK meet I'm just working on other peoples (people who I don't know) opinions.

Thanks for the thoughts.  I saw a nice but expensive bearded axe that was really more a hatchet, on Knifecenter's site and it looked like it could also be used for skinning because of the shape of the head.

Might be the same one. They do a 14" (360mm) and 18" (460mm) version.
I've gone for the longer one as I needed to fill a gap in the size range

[nuphoria]

I agree with a lot of the above - love my folding saw and always throw it in the bag when I'm likely to need it.

Not much else to add except that pic is great!

[Carlos]

I'm working on putting a survival/bug-out bag together, and a good reliable fixed blade knife is the first thing I'm looking into.

I'm not talking about something cheap like the Big Rock I got a few weeks ago, or my Tenacious or the like.  I'm talking a serious, stake-your-life-on-it knife, that can be used for anything from being a machete, to cleaning and butchering an animal, splitting sticks for kindling, scraping a fire-steel, use as a spear-head, etc.  I've decided a budget of about $150 would be a good price point for this.

Fallkniven's are highly praised on this.

The most popular is the F1, which is considered perhaps the best survival knife, with a small blade (9,7cm 3,8in).
Its bigger brothers are the S1, with a medium size blade (13,0cm 5,1in) and the A1, with a longer blade (16,0cm 6,3in).

They're not cheap but the F1 or the S1 should fit your budget.

[PyroJames]

Hi all,

I'm working on putting a survival/bug-out bag together, and a good reliable fixed blade knife is the first thing I'm looking into.

I'm not talking about something cheap like the Big Rock I got a few weeks ago, or my Tenacious or the like.  I'm talking a serious, stake-your-life-on-it knife, that can be used for anything from being a machete, to cleaning and butchering an animal, splitting sticks for kindling, scraping a fire-steel, use as a spear-head, etc.  I've decided a budget of about $150 would be a good price point for this.

Right now I really like this one:

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=SPFB20FPBK

The holster got some bad remarks in the reviews, but I think it would actually be a good way to go, because with a really stiff sheath like that you can easily strap it to your lower leg or a pack and not worry about it whipping around and banging into stuff.  Seems like it would be a good fighter too, if needed.

I don't own the Rock but I do own the Rock Salt (The original H1 version of the Rock) and without a doubt, it is one of the most comfortable fixed blades I have ever held.  Everyone that I've shown it to also loves the way it feels in the hands. 

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Hi all,

I'm working on putting a survival/bug-out bag together, and a good reliable fixed blade knife is the first thing I'm looking into.

I'm not talking about something cheap like the Big Rock I got a few weeks ago, or my Tenacious or the like.  I'm talking a serious, stake-your-life-on-it knife, that can be used for anything from being a machete, to cleaning and butchering an animal, splitting sticks for kindling, scraping a fire-steel, use as a spear-head, etc.  I've decided a budget of about $150 would be a good price point for this.

Right now I really like this one:

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=SPFB20FPBK

The holster got some bad remarks in the reviews, but I think it would actually be a good way to go, because with a really stiff sheath like that you can easily strap it to your lower leg or a pack and not worry about it whipping around and banging into stuff.  Seems like it would be a good fighter too, if needed.

I don't own the Rock but I do own the Rock Salt (The original H1 version of the Rock) and without a doubt, it is one of the most comfortable fixed blades I have ever held.  Everyone that I've shown it to also loves the way it feels in the hands.

I've decided that the Rock isn't going to be the best solution for me for what I want, but I have to say that I really like the size and the styling of that blade...  Something about it just speaks to me.  (I've found that kukri style blades really appeal to me...) 

For now, I'm just going to use my Gerber Big Rock, so I can fit a folding saw and a small axe into my budget, but I so want that Spydie...  I'm going to save my pennies for a couple or three months and once I get the Spydie, the Gerber will be the backup, so I'll have both, and can use the Gerber as a beater when needed.

[PyroJames]

I've decided that the Rock isn't going to be the best solution for me for what I want, but I have to say that I really like the size and the styling of that blade...  Something about it just speaks to me.  (I've found that kukri style blades really appeal to me...) 

For now, I'm just going to use my Gerber Big Rock, so I can fit a folding saw and a small axe into my budget, but I so want that Spydie...  I'm going to save my pennies for a couple or three months and once I get the Spydie, the Gerber will be the backup, so I'll have both, and can use the Gerber as a beater when needed.

I agree, while it looks and feels great, the Rock/Rock Salt is too nice to be a heavy duty workhorse.  For camping duties, I have a SOG Fixation Bowie that I picked up for $35 and that's good enough to split firewood with.

I'm planning on getting a Rock too.  (Gotta complete the set.)

Here's my RS; with my Endura and Native:

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

That is a sweet knife...  Is the edge hollow ground?

[PyroJames]

Yes, it's hollow ground.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Yes, it's hollow ground.

Doh!!! 

As beautiful as it is, now I'm gonna rethink that one...  I hate hollow ground edges and avoid them when I can.  I'm surprised they put one on a knife of that level.  Why didn't they just flat grind it? 

[jekostas]

Yes, it's hollow ground.

Doh!!! 

As beautiful as it is, now I'm gonna rethink that one...  I hate hollow ground edges and avoid them when I can.  I'm surprised they put one on a knife of that level.  Why didn't they just flat grind it?

H1 steel cannot be flat ground.  The newer Spyderco Rock (which is VG-10 and not H1) is flat ground.