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Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd 8045

Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,667 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #360 on: May 22, 2019, 06:43:46 PM »
today's mail call

HP 12C Platinum 25th Anniversary Edition




Casio fx-15   (sharpies for scale)
this is from around 1975


If I can help, let me know 
No Life Club Posts: 3,563
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #361 on: May 22, 2019, 09:49:48 PM »
Very nice Casio and HP-12C detron.  :like:

Now you need the 30th Anniversary Edition.  :tu:
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,667 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #362 on: May 23, 2019, 02:08:11 AM »
Very nice Casio and HP-12C detron.  :like:

Now you need the 30th Anniversary Edition.  :tu:

i don't NEED it.

(I am sure I will grab one one day)

I am waiting for 2021 and the 40th Anniversary

If I can help, let me know 
No Life Club Posts: 3,563
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #363 on: May 23, 2019, 06:27:15 AM »
But you’ll WANT one...beautiful champagne bezel...  :pok:
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,464 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #364 on: May 23, 2019, 06:31:34 AM »
Detron,

Love that fx-15! :drool:

But you’ll WANT one...beautiful champagne bezel...  :pok:
Cool pic, Max! :like:

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
No Life Club Posts: 3,563
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #365 on: May 23, 2019, 08:07:04 AM »
 :hatsoff: thanks GLBM.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,667 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #366 on: May 23, 2019, 01:50:25 PM »
But you’ll WANT one...beautiful champagne bezel...  :pok:


ahhhhhhhh    YES I DO!!!      :twak:

 :rofl:

If I can help, let me know 
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,667 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #367 on: May 23, 2019, 04:33:47 PM »
But you’ll WANT one...beautiful champagne bezel...  :pok:

I just saw the crazy price those 30th Anniversary editions ones sell for.  I am OK without it.    :rofl:

« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 04:49:58 PM by detron »

If I can help, let me know 
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,667 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #368 on: June 25, 2019, 02:18:02 AM »
Finally picked up one of the HP-41 series calculators.









The HP-41C was released in 1979  it was the first portable alpha-numeric calculator, and HPs first LCD screen.  unlike most LCDs that are 7 segment, this one is a 14 segment LCD to accommodate the Alpha-Numeric requirements
The HP-41C had 4 expansion ports.  there are add on modules you can get and plug into the calculator to extend the features.  there are "pacs" for Aviation, circuit analysis, clinical lab/Nuclear medicine, machine design, navigation, surveying, securities, stress analysis, finance, math, statistics, engineering, extra memory, a quad memory, etc.
in 1980, HP released the HP-41CV (V as in Roman Numeral 5)  it had the quad memory module built in, providing 5 times the memory and leaving the 4 expansion ports open.

I have an HP-41CV. and there are loads of accessories available such as: bar code reader, 3.5" floppy drive, 5.25 Floppy drive, printer, magnetic card reader, port extenders, etc.

the HP-41 was the backup computer on the Space shuttle.  https://hpinspace.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/hp-41-series-and-the-space-shuttle-program/

The 41C was introduced in 1979, priced at $295. The HP-41CV was introduced in 1980, priced at $325. The HP-41CX was introduced in 1983, priced at $325.

I am exited to have a new calculator to learn!

If I can help, let me know 
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,464 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #369 on: June 25, 2019, 04:54:56 AM »
That is just awesome, detron! :drool:

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
No Life Club Posts: 2,860 Lifelike and remarkably self similar
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #370 on: June 28, 2019, 02:15:39 AM »
Finally picked up one of the HP-41 series calculators.

Congrats!  I have one, I picked up via Freecycle a few years ago.  In the early to late 80's the HP 41 series was considered the must have calculator for engineering students with the budget to afford it.

"Drink your big black cow
And get out of here." -  Steely Dan
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,667 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #371 on: June 29, 2019, 01:15:24 AM »
Congrats!  I have one, I picked up via Freecycle a few years ago.  In the early to late 80's the HP 41 series was considered the must have calculator for engineering students with the budget to afford it.

it does seem like an amazing machine, especially if you consider the other tech available at the time.
this calculator is still a great calculator, but the computers that were available at that time are not as useful.

If I can help, let me know 
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,008 Armed with camera and not afraid to use it.
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #372 on: August 28, 2019, 03:28:16 AM »
Well how is this for a tale.

I thought I stored the Casio FX-6300G in deep storage...but that was not so. I accidentally stumbled over my black cat in the dark kitchen. I didn't even know she was there. She took that rather personal and ran to the bedroom to hide under the bed. I felt really bad and took a flashlight to see if she was ok. I then spied the calculator under the bed. Huh...I hadn't seen that calculator for years and wondered how it got under there. Yes I do clean under the bed...so I am just :think: about this. On the positive side, I am now reacquainted with the calculator. I had taken the batteries out for storage ages ago. I popped in a pair of CR2032, and had a bit of trouble changing the contrast on the LCD screen. Guess the calculator didn't like the deep under the bed storage.  :rofl:

After re-inserting the batteries a few time, the calculator is now up and running.

As for the cat...well...she took her time to forgive me...2 hours, and is now out and about. Whew.  :facepalm:



« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 03:37:57 AM by Chako »

A little Leatherman information.

Leatherman series articles
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,667 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #373 on: August 28, 2019, 05:58:37 AM »
Well how is this for a tale.

I thought I stored the Casio FX-6300G in deep storage...but that was not so. I accidentally stumbled over my black cat in the dark kitchen. I didn't even know she was there. She took that rather personal and ran to the bedroom to hide under the bed. I felt really bad and took a flashlight to see if she was ok. I then spied the calculator under the bed. Huh...I hadn't seen that calculator for years and wondered how it got under there. Yes I do clean under the bed...so I am just :think: about this. On the positive side, I am now reacquainted with the calculator. I had taken the batteries out for storage ages ago. I popped in a pair of CR2032, and had a bit of trouble changing the contrast on the LCD screen. Guess the calculator didn't like the deep under the bed storage.  :rofl:

After re-inserting the batteries a few time, the calculator is now up and running.

As for the cat...well...she took her time to forgive me...2 hours, and is now out and about. Whew.  :facepalm:





I have one of those.  pretty sweet compromise to get a little graphing in a scientific size body.  I do not have a box or manual, so it is very cool to see those.

If I can help, let me know 
Head Turd Polisher Administrator Just Bananas Posts: 61,325 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #374 on: September 23, 2019, 12:10:41 PM »
From The Hustle:

Quote
Is the era of the $100+ graphing calculator coming to an end?
Texas Instruments has enjoyed a near monopoly on graphing calculators for nearly three decades. But new technology may be threatening the company’s empire.

BY ZACHARY CROCKETT

Texas Instrument’s best-selling graphing calculator, the TI-84, is a woefully outdated piece of technology.

Since its debut in 2004, its specs and components have remained virtually unchanged. With 24 kilobytes of RAM, a 96x64 pixel screen, and a power system that still relies on 4 AAA batteries, it has been usurped by hundreds of modern handheld devices. While the cost of its components has dramatically decreased, its price ($150 MSRP) has not.

Yet, for millions of middle school and high school students around America, the graphing calculator is still a required standard — and TI controls an estimated 80% of the $300m+ market.

An obsolete piece of technology has managed to maintain a stranglehold on an increasingly tech-savvy education market. But it appears that the rise of new, free-to-use technology is starting to chip away at this empire.

How TI cornered the calculator market
In the late 1980s, electronics companies began to see a space in the education market for a calculator that could graph equations.

Though Casio (1985) and Sharp (1986) were the first to market, it wasn’t until 1990, when Texas Instruments released the TI-81, that graphing calculators really began to hit the mainstream.

TI, a semiconductor giant, sensed “an opportunity to provide some inexpensive technology that students could use every day.” But there was a problem: At the time, most students were perfectly fine with drawing graphs on paper and using simpler handheld calculators. Educators were rightfully wary of change — especially change that wasn’t yet proven to improve student performance.

So, over a 20-year period, TI set out to manufacture demand by making its calculators mandated classroom tools.

The company established partnerships with big textbook companies that integrated TI-specific exercises (complete with screenshots of buttons) into classroom curricula. It sought approval for standardized test use from administrators like the College Board. And every time a competing tech innovation came along, it lobbied to maintain its perch atop the parabola.

According to Open Secrets and ProPublica data, Texas Instruments paid lobbyists to hound the Department of Education every year from 2005 to 2009 — right around the time when mobile technology and apps were becoming more of a threat.

The company campaigned against devices with touchscreens, internet connection, and QWERTY keyboards. In one instance, it even lobbied the Texas legislature to make it mandatory for all students to take Algebra II — a course that often requires the use of a TI graphing calculator.

“A lot of [TI’s] graphing calculator success was due to really aggressive lobbying for certain policies,” a source in the education space told The Hustle. “They made it so that that the types of things you were allowed to bring into a test were essentially limited to their devices.”

At the same time, TI set up a robust teacher training program, launched a help hotline (1-800-TI-CARES), and organized conferences with hands-on demonstrations.

By 2000, TI had sold 20m graphing calculators at $100+ a pop — enough for 40% of America’s high-school students. This ubiquity led The New York Times to dub it the “greatest technological advancement in math classrooms in a generation.”

But why, 20 years and many tech leaps later, are students still forced to buy these calculators? And why are they still prohibitively expensive?

Monopolies set their own prices
TI now enjoys an estimated 80% market share of the international graphing calculator market.

Its bestseller, the TI-84 Plus, was first released in 2004 for around $120. Since then, the cost of electronic components has dramatically decreased, along with TI’s R&D costs — yet the TI-84 Plus still sells for nearly the same price.

One analyst placed the cost to produce a TI-84 Plus at around $15-20, meaning TI sells it for a profit margin of nearly 50% — far above the electronics industry’s average margin of 6.7%.

Peter Balyta, the president of TI Education Technology, defends his calculators’ price point: “A TI calculator is a one-time investment in a student’s future that takes them from middle school math and science classes through college, as well as into the important exams they take along the way,” he says.

Some students don’t see it this way.

“It basically sucks,” says Marcus Grant, an 11th grader currently taking a pre-calculus course. “It was really expensive for my family. There are cheaper alternatives available, but my teacher makes [the TI calculator] mandatory and there’s no other option.”

Many math teachers make graphing calculators mandatory; others strongly suggest that students purchase one. This is partly because TI has benefitted from anti-smartphone laws passed in certain districts.

“New York state does not allow computer or phone use on Regents exams, only approved handhelds,” says Dina Kushnir, the Math Department Chair at Fayetteville-Manlius Central Schools. “So we have no choice but to equip students to use some sort of handheld device effectively and efficiently for high-stakes math assessments.”

After years of training and support, other teachers are simply too familiar with TI calculators to switch to alternate tools, like free smartphone apps.

“The process of approval [for new technologies] hinges on teacher acceptance of the technology and their willingness to integrate it into the classroom,” says Lisa Ellermann, a Math Consultant at Texas Region 8 Education Service Center. The training and support for TI calculators, she adds, outranks that offered for new tech.

Cheaper options have come along (Casio has offered $50 calculators that perform the same basic tasks) but TI was too entrenched in the system to compete with.

Analysts have long projected that the “specialized nature” of the graphing calculator would eventually be usurped by more generalized machines, like phones or computers.

That prediction hasn’t yet come to fruition. But recently, things are starting to change.

The battle to make graphing calculators free
While tutoring low-income students in 2011, a Yale math grad named Eli Luberoff began to notice a “horrible inequity” in the system.

“A lot of families simply couldn’t afford to spend $100 on a calculator,” he says, “and it was creating a huge imbalance in access to math tools.”

So, Luberoff created Desmos, a free graphing calculator application for desktop and mobile. He didn’t expect it to turn into a company — but today, more than 40m students and teachers use it.

“Our business model is the exact opposite of TI’s,” says Luberoff: “Their model has always been to give [tech] away for free to textbook companies and force families to buy it at a premium price; our model is to give [tech] away for free to students, and charge textbook companies to integrate it.”

Large middle and high school math textbook publishers like McGraw Hill have recently licensed technology from Desmos. Pages that once contained screenshots of TI-84 buttons now direct students to interactive exercises on the free Desmos app. As tests increasingly move from graph paper to school-provided computers, Desmos has also found success in the digital assessment space.

Gaining trust in the classroom, however, has been an uphill battle.

“You’re trying to convince teachers who’ve been teaching with TI for 20 years to try something new,” says Luberoff. “It’s hard enough to be a teacher without dealing with technological change. But most understand our tool is more equitable. It’s modern technology. It’s what kids use now.”

But TI says there are several problems with free alternatives like Desmos.

“Schools often have to pay for IT support and consistent, reliable broadband internet, in addition to purchasing tablets and laptops to run the apps,” says Balyta. “Using tools that require internet access is especially challenging for schools and districts in rural areas, where infrastructure is limited.”

Is change on the horizon?
Today, 90% of teachers in the US still use handheld calculators like the TI-84 as their primary math tool in the classroom. Only 6% use software or apps as their primary tool.

When asked if competing technology has impacted calculator sales, TI cited a TI-funded study showing that calculator usage has “remained consistent.”

Another source told The Hustle that graphing calculator sales have seen a 15% YoY decline in recent years — a trend that free alternatives like Desmos may be at least partially responsible for.

In its annual reports, TI wraps calculator revenue into a larger category (“Other”), which includes additional products. Since 2014, this category has seen a 35% decline, from $2.2B to $1.4B.

It is unclear how much of this decline can be attributed specifically to calculators. But it’s an indicator that the devices may not be selling like they used to.

As a company that has been on the forefront of new technologies for decades, it’s likely that TI understands its calculator kingdom will eventually cede to new innovations. And when this does happen, it won’t be that crushing: Calculators make up only a tiny fraction of TI’s $15.8B annual revenue.

“15 years ago, the TI-84 was an amazing device with a huge benefit to teachers and students,” says Luberoff. “Now, it’s time for their empire to cede way.”

https://thehustle.co/graphing-calculators-expensive/?utm_source=sunday&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=TI&utm_content=https%3A%2F%2Fthehustle.co%2Fgraphing-calculators-expensive%2F

Just thought people in this thread may find it interesting.  :D

Def

Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,932 Hidalgo, Castillo del Hook
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #375 on: September 23, 2019, 02:13:01 PM »
What I don't understand is why a TI-84 is required?
First year of Uni, and we were told to buy the same 'ol Casio fx-85GT's.

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,667 Tool Carrying Linux User
No Life Club Posts: 3,221
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #377 on: September 24, 2019, 01:49:32 AM »
I'm wondering, how good is a 12C for accounting type work, as opposed to a more general scientific/engineering calc?  A friend of mine gave me a  1992 HP-48G; which is a lot more capable. Plus outside of a little work needing done to fix the screen (dead pixels) and some buttons that require me to press the bottom of the screen bezel to work, it won't cost me much extra.  And apparently better built. Unfortunately, I have never worked with an RPL calculator before, and it's a little confusing. My Texas Instruments TI-84 Plus Silver Edition just died after a decade (I suspect a leaking backup battery, followed by its probably 200th two-foot drop played a part), and since I no longer need the graphing functions, I bought a TI-36X Pro to replace it (basically, the only reason I still use my TI-84 is I like how it displays); and on some tests/exams, the TI-36 can be used where the TI-84 obviously can't (I've had tests where a TI-34 wasn't allowed and was given a basic pocket calculator, but that's another story)

And if you're wondering what is wrong with the TI-84; I cannot enter anything. And that was before I discovered the backup battery issue. I'm hoping a new battery is the only problem. Not something serious like a busted connection inside.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,667 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #378 on: September 24, 2019, 02:29:11 AM »
I'm wondering, how good is a 12C for accounting type work, as opposed to a more general scientific/engineering calc?  A friend of mine gave me a  1992 HP-48G; which is a lot more capable. Plus outside of a little work needing done to fix the screen (dead pixels) and some buttons that require me to press the bottom of the screen bezel to work, it won't cost me much extra.  And apparently better built. Unfortunately, I have never worked with an RPL calculator before, and it's a little confusing. My Texas Instruments TI-84 Plus Silver Edition just died after a decade (I suspect a leaking backup battery, followed by its probably 200th two-foot drop played a part), and since I no longer need the graphing functions, I bought a TI-36X Pro to replace it (basically, the only reason I still use my TI-84 is I like how it displays); and on some tests/exams, the TI-36 can be used where the TI-84 obviously can't (I've had tests where a TI-34 wasn't allowed and was given a basic pocket calculator, but that's another story)

And if you're wondering what is wrong with the TI-84; I cannot enter anything. And that was before I discovered the backup battery issue. I'm hoping a new battery is the only problem. Not something serious like a busted connection inside.

I would say that the 12C is a great calculator for what it is intended for.    the 48G is a great calculator, but would not be my choice for accounting work (I own a 48G and 48GX).    I own 8 12Cs, and for calculating mortgages, and TVM calculations they are great.  I know some of the newer calculators do add a few extra features for the financial world, but the 12C does almost everything with less key-strokes.


If I can help, let me know 
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,667 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #379 on: September 24, 2019, 02:40:02 AM »
I'm wondering, how good is a 12C for accounting type work, as opposed to a more general scientific/engineering calc?  A friend of mine gave me a  1992 HP-48G; which is a lot more capable. Plus outside of a little work needing done to fix the screen (dead pixels) and some buttons that require me to press the bottom of the screen bezel to work, it won't cost me much extra.  And apparently better built. Unfortunately, I have never worked with an RPL calculator before, and it's a little confusing. My Texas Instruments TI-84 Plus Silver Edition just died after a decade (I suspect a leaking backup battery, followed by its probably 200th two-foot drop played a part), and since I no longer need the graphing functions, I bought a TI-36X Pro to replace it (basically, the only reason I still use my TI-84 is I like how it displays); and on some tests/exams, the TI-36 can be used where the TI-84 obviously can't (I've had tests where a TI-34 wasn't allowed and was given a basic pocket calculator, but that's another story)

And if you're wondering what is wrong with the TI-84; I cannot enter anything. And that was before I discovered the backup battery issue. I'm hoping a new battery is the only problem. Not something serious like a busted connection inside.

I did not appreciate RPN (or RPL) until a few years ago.  but once I understood it (which only takes an hour or so) I feel it is superior.  I think of it as a thinking persons calculator.
I wrote a program for the 12C to solve Heron's formula for solving the area of a triangle from just the length of the three sides.  very simple to program.

If I can help, let me know 
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,008 Armed with camera and not afraid to use it.
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #380 on: September 24, 2019, 03:11:31 AM »
A good read Def.

I bought a Ti 84 CE for a song and a dance at the local Staples. They were selling it for a steal. I bought one. Then I believe you told me about Wabbitemu. I am now a convert. Love that app...so much so, I told a few math colleagues, and now they instruct their students to use that if they have an android cell phone.

A little Leatherman information.

Leatherman series articles
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,667 Tool Carrying Linux User
Re: Detron's Calculator Experience, or even more proof I am a nerd
« Reply #381 on: September 24, 2019, 03:33:26 AM »
A good read Def.

I bought a Ti 84 CE for a song and a dance at the local Staples. They were selling it for a steal. I bought one. Then I believe you told me about Wabbitemu. I am now a convert. Love that app...so much so, I told a few math colleagues, and now they instruct their students to use that if they have an android cell phone.

I love emulating my calculators, I use it when I am out and about.  I do prefer the tactile feel of a real calculator though.

If I can help, let me know 

 

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