Speaking of Karma; Thirty Billion to "fight AIDS" in Africa?

[Anthony]

This is for the American members mainly, but if you're not from here, pretend YOUR country is giving away a few billion to fight AIDS in Africa. 

The thing that gets me is 99% of the time, contracting HIV and subsequently AIDS is entirely avoidable.  I'd like someone (prefferably President Bush) to explain to me how my tax money is going to help "fight" AIDS...in another country of all places!  I'd hate to be rude, but why does the continent of Africa matter to the United States today?  This thirty billion dollars will be skimmed and stolen so much it's laughable. 

This isn't like Europe is fighting off a black plauge in 2008 and they desperately need assistance...this is AIDS...in Africa.  Something doesn't make sense...if I'm missing something please inform me

[toytoy]

What if Trajan, a Roman Emperor, decided that Rome should colonize the moon?

No way!

There's no way people two thousand years ago can ever reach the moon. Without sufficient science and technology, you can't go to the moon no matter how much money you're willing to spend.

HIV has been around since the early 1980s. In my opinion, the disease is still not curable. If you get it, you die in a couple of decades even if you take medicine. The medicine only delays eventual death. Before you die, you suffer a prolonged deterioration of health. The therapy also can be painful.

Paying for HIV/AIDS, in my opinion, only helps you feel better and makes pharma industry fatter. The patients suffer. Most of them could hardly enjoy life before they die. Their families also suffer because of prolonged caring and torture. Their countries suffer because money spend on HIV/AIDS could be used elsewhere such providing clean water.

HIV/AIDS is a high-profile disease thanks to gay lobby. I admit people discriminate the gay. However, it remains a fact that male homosexuals generally have the highest rate of HIV+. Only in some highly disordered societies (e.g., southern African countries), the heterosexual may have high infection rates. In the mid-1980s, some gay groups sucessfully created a heterosexual AIDS fear. They wanted people to believe HIV/AIDS will become epidemic among straight people. No, gay populations around the world still have the highest the infection rates. You cannot save your ass by creating myths.

For the record, pure lesbians (not bi-sexual) generally have the lowest infection rates thanks to dildos. Penile penetration of rectum certainly is not safe. Like it or not, this is a fact. No political correctness can save you from the law of nature.

I believe, thanks to gay lobby, worldwide governments have to pay top money on developing HIV/AIDS medicine. However, it has been proven we still cannot cure it after more than 25 years. YOU HAVE TO WAIT. Could Leonard da Vinci build a working helicopter if these fat Venetian bankers gave him all the gold?

If I were in charge, I would pay nothing to "cure" HIV/AIDS. I would provide euthanasia to those infected persons. If they don't want to die, I would detain them. This is surely against human rights but quarantine has always been the way human deal with infectious diseases. We certainly have to compromise.

If Ronald Reagan and 1980s world leaders sent all earliest gay HIV patients to a remote hospital, HIV would have little chance to spread, today's gay population would be spared from infection. Many African countries would also be spared.

Is it cruel? This is cruel but on the other hand, isn't it even worse to let HIV spread and kill more people?

I can safely stop spending money to make drugs. Either you make big drug tycoons fatter, or you make Indian drug moghals fatter. Buying these drugs helps no one else. There are cheap and proven ways to combat HIV/AIDS: FREE CONDOMS and FREE CLEAN NEEDLES. Why all these drugs?

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I voted yes, for the simple fact that while a lot of money will go to fund drug's (no bad thing) it's also going on education in order to prevent it's spread.

The fact is there is a huge stima to aids in africa, and the health care profesionals have a huge problem in trying to get the victims to the clinic's, a big educational drive could solve that and help contain if not cure it.

Plus there are drugs available that prevent a mother passing on the virus to her unborn child, so the money would be going to save the lives of children and to look after the orphans too

As long as the money is sent and spent by western health agencies (local goverment's are even less trust worthy than our's) I think it's all good

[Sea Monster]

If we can stop 3rd world Africa from dicking around and being useless, then we'll have another source of cheap labour to use in preference over employing overpriced US citizens!

I've started printing little gold "Made in Africa" stickers in anticipation for the boom. I'll be rich!

[toytoy]

Plus there are drugs available that prevent a mother passing on the virus to her unborn child, so the money would be going to save the lives of children and to look after the orphans too

You don't let your son play Russian Roulette, do you?

You don't load the gun and press the trigger, do you?

Russian Roulette is pretty safe (1/6 death rate; marginally lower if you live next to a great hospital) in comparison with living in a HIV+ mother's womb for 9 months (1/4 infection rate; possibly 100% death before 20 years of age if they are infected). Even if the mother takes antiretroviral drugs everyday on time. The rate of vertical transmission is still about 2-3% if the mother takes drugs and medical workers do their jobs properly and the infant takes drugs for six weeks. If anything goes wrong, the infection rate shall be between 2% and 25%.

http://aids.about.com/od/hivprevention/f/verticaltrans.htm

Can I sell you a car that has a 2-3% possibility of fuel tank explosion per year?

Is giving babies antiretroviral drugs for six weeks from DAY ONE humane? These drugs may have serious side effects. Depending on the mother's HIV strain, they may be given any drugs. Some drugs may have more painful side effects.

How do we know if the drugs may induce long term damage to their systems? Many good mothers give up smoking, drinking wine and coffee, and start only eating organic foods. They don't want their babies exposed to bad chemicals. Now there are some parents who would expose their kids under HIV (2-3% infection rate; much larger expose rate) and possibly dangerous antiretroviral drugs (100% exposure rate; unknown long term risks). What do you think?

If we provide free antiretroviral drugs to them, we shall include birth pills as a part of the medical program. Even better, we may implant long term hormone capsules (e.g., Norplant) to the women. Males are supposed to use condoms anyway. If there's a birth pill for men, I would also give them the pills. If they are pregnant, I would administer abortion.

Having babies is not a right. It is a very serious thing.

[felinevet]

I was talking to missionaries from my church to the Republic of Congo. Ten years ago they had VERY few AIDS cases but in the last ten years they have been invaded by troops from surrounding African countries who have raped the women and children and the AIDs incidence has skyrocketed. Things aren't always easy to explain with platitudes.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I understand the pro's and the very real cons, but we in the west can't wash our hands of the situation

[Anthony]

America can't babysit the entire third world...look at the Iraq; they don't even know what democracy is.  It's like trying to teach calculus to a second grader.  They can't grasp it, they haven't moved up through addition, subtraction, multiplication, dividsion, decimals, percentages...

But back to africa...they simply do not CARE what AIDS does.  Tim mentioned a few posts up, soldiers spread it to Women they rape.  What form of education can we give a thirty year old man with AIDS and a machine gun who enters villages and rapes Women and children?  Does he want education?  Does he want a handfull of condoms?

I just don't get any of this.  From what I read and see, africa for the most part is beyond the third world...it's like an alternate universe with a black hole I'm throwing my tax dollars into.

[CQC-7]

I think that the world need to fight AIDS not just the USA.  Our economy is on a downward spiral and what do we do, we help everyone else but ourselves.  If you want to see our economy skyrocket, use that money to pay off all student loan debt of those students that have actually graduated college.  With an extra $400 in my pocket every month, imagine what I could do for the economy.  As far as Africa goes, I say SCREW THEM.  They hate us anyway and we still give them money which eventually will go to help someone by an RPG and shoot at one of out helicopters.  I say let the garbage men take care of the garbage.   

[J-sews]

A very interesting discussion gentlemen, one which we all obviously have strong feelings about.

Strong feelings or not though, lets try to keep the discussion respectful of all people, even those who may be reading this thread but not posting.

Thanks,
Bob

[Sea Monster]

America can't babysit the entire third world...look at the Iraq; they don't even know what democracy is.  It's like trying to teach calculus to a second grader.  They can't grasp it, they haven't moved up through addition, subtraction, multiplication, dividsion, decimals, percentages...

I know there's a big bubble made out of 10 gallon hats, spent rifle rounds, and General Lee novelty horns around the US, but the rest of us send aid and funds around the planet once in a while too.

Just saying.

Also - The Internet is somewhat international, avoid picking on countries (unless of course that country is the US, then they can just call the Wah-bulance) - Nothing against seppos in general, but on the world stage you get no sympathy.
Apparently there is a downside to saturating the media.

[toytoy]

The War Against AIDS is totally wrong. In my opinion, you need condoms and clean needles then nothing will go wrong. HIV would not have become a major problem if they have done proper invention and just let the infected die.

Rape is a natural part of war. With or without HIV, African soldiers would rape women. Same thing occurred all over the world including those wars where U.S. soldiers were involved. If the earliest HIV was effectively confined by good policy, those African women would have got herpes but very unlikely HIV.

The War Against AIDS is a typical policy failure. It overly stressed on "cure," which can be billions light years away. You don't go to a war having a banana in your hands as your weapon. If you know anything about evolution, you may like to see the virus co-evolve with Homo sapiens and become less virulent in the long run. I can explain how evolution works, but it takes time.

Democracy works in the 1st World not because it is good, but because people do not have a choice. You may prefer Coke over Pepsi. But if I force you drink Pepsi, you are not going to die. Both Coke and Pepsi are water plus HFCS plus some other unknown ingredients. They are biologically almost the same. The Republicans and Democrats are almost the same. They would not sell you a candidate who kills whores in London and tears apart their guts. You may not like the end result, but you know there will still be a U.S. of A. four years later.

In many places of the world, people are practicing TRUE democracy: THEY DO HAVE A CHOICE. Such as a choice between being slaughtered by Jack-the-Ripper and taking a pill of cyanide.

[ringzero]

This is for the American members mainly, but if you're not from here, pretend YOUR country is giving away a few billion to fight AIDS in Africa.

Giving money to help fight AIDS in Africa bothers me somewhat less than typical American foreign aid to Third World nations.

Foreign aid is supposedly given to improve the lot of desperately poor people.  But, much of foreign aid - sometimes most of it - sent to Third World countries goes straight into the pockets of corrupt political elites who lead lives of incredible luxury while their countrymen suffer or even literally starve.

Read up on Zimbabwe - formerly Rhodesia - once one of the most advanced nations in Africa that regularly exported food to its neighbors, now a hellhole of racist repression and starvation.

Zimbabwe's political elites live in incredible, ostentatious luxury rivaling that of the richest Hollywood movie stars.

Meanwhile, their countrymen die of malnutrition that the policies of the politcal elite has brought about.

.

[CQC-7]

AIDS and poverty seem to be great problem in Africa.  African troops led by warlords should be executed for raping.  Not bringing religion t it but I hope that all rapists regardless of which side they are fighting on find their destiny in hell.  Although I agree that AIDS is a problem it canot be solved by the USA or any other country for that matter by simply throwing money at the problem.  It think the answer is just the opposite.  Dont give any money to fight the problem and eventually aids will die out much like the plague of the middle ages.  HIV and AIDS is a virus and like the common cold it mutates quickly.  I guess there is now a "superbug" that is resistant to treatment.  By treating it we are fueling our own demise.

[ducktapehero]

Look at the bright side, with the way that the US dollar is tanking pretty soon 30 billion dollars won't be very much. 

[CQC-7]

Look at the bright side, with the way that the US dollar is tanking pretty soon 30 billion dollars won't be very much. 

That is very true but also very sad.  A little off topic here but when they raise the mininum wage it make those of us that make a higher wage that much more poor.