Help to identify my SAK

[rmagralha]

Hi All,

this is my first post, so if I made any mistakes related to forum policies I apologize in advance. I like SAKs since my childhood and recently I brought this passion back. I need a quick help from you. I have posted two pictures from an old SAK (my first one) that my father gave to me around 25 years ago.

He doesn't know who gave to him and I could not find more details in the web. Can you help me?
Thank you very much!

[ColoSwiss]

Hi, welcome aboard!

The knife is an early version of the current Huntsman. Earlier versions were sold as the Sport and the Woodsman. In fact yours may predate the assigning of names. The old style can opener dates it to pre-1951. Other features such as the large reamer and visible pins are also old, pre-dating the early 1960s. Others will probably be along in a bit who can narrow the date down further.

Nice knife!

[J Mackrel Jones]

Victorinoxes had this style of can opener from 1946 to 1951.
Nice tang stamp !

[rmagralha]

Thank you very much guys, appreciate your help. Will check the local customer support to see if they can help me with the broken scissor tip.

[T.J. Hooker]

Never seen that writing before.
Wish I had that knife

[rmagralha]

Thank you T.J. another doubt....can it be considered rare? A "collector " piece? Or is a piece that is easy to be found? 

[T.J. Hooker]

Yes it is a rare knife.
I would say its a collector piece(to us).

First time I seen Elsener Schwyz Swiss Made on a red knife. I live in Australia so there isn't much old Swiss knives here, just the newer ones(therefore only seen a few oldish swiss knives). Very hard for me to collect.

In USA there is a few found in old esates, garage sales etc.

[rmagralha]

Got it, thank you for the reply. 

[Reinier]

Wow I didn't notice the unusual tang stamp when I saw the pics this morning (due to a lack of coffee I guess). It makes the knife even nicer!

[Waterlander]

Wow I didn't notice the unusual tang stamp when I saw the pics this morning (due to a lack of coffee I guess). It makes the knife even nicer!

Yes, interesting. Must be prior Armee Suisse stamp?
Also the stamp Swiss Made on the screwdriver..
Hmm..where's ICanFixThat when you need him? 

Is this 84 or 91mm size?

It has the old lobster style canopener (1946 - 1951), but not thé oldest style canopener.

BTW, did anybody ever seen or heard of an Officers Knife with stainless scales?? (~1930)

[jazzbass]

This knife is a 91mm Victorinox model 236, made sometime around 1946-1948 judging by the front of it (pictures of the backside would help). Many (including myself) will call this a "Huntsman" as that is the modern equivalent to this knife (i.e. four layers, same basic tools). However, the Huntsman name didn't show up until the early 1950s, and only then it was applied to a more "deluxe" version of this knife - one with toothpick, tweezers, bail, and long nail file. In the Early 1950s this knife would have been known as a "Woodsman" (a name that has since been recycled many times over). Technically, when sold originally, this knife had no name except "236".

This is an old knife, pretty collectible (I'll buy it if you're selling, though I doubt you are) but not what you'd call super rare. Post war Huntsmans like this are out there in good numbers, as lots were purchased after WWII by GIs stationed in Europe and brought back. Their high quality means many have survived. They show up about once a month on eBay. Be VERY careful opening and closing the tools. These old knifes are build like tanks, but the back springs will eventually break on them. It's not "if", but "when".

Regarding the tang stamps, this does not pre-date the "Armee Suisse" stamp - that stamp was in use in the early 1900s. Knives from this period have MANY variations of tang stamps on the same knife. I think it depended on where the knife was going to be sold. On knives from this era you typically see:

Main blade stamping (f/r):

Armée Suisse / Victorinox
Victorinox / Inoxyd **
Elsener - Switzerland - Stainless / Victorinox *
Armée Suisse / Inoxyd
Elsener - Switzerland - Stainless / Inoxyd *
Elsener - Switzerland - Stainless / [blank] *
Elsener - Schwyz - Swiss Made / Inoxyd *
Armée Suisse / Victoria -Switzerland - Stainless
Victoria -Switzerland - Stainless / [blank]

* - typically has "Swiss Made" stamped on cap lifter
** - known to have "Armée Suisse" stamped on the cap lifter

[rmagralha]

Wow!!! Thank you jazzbass, that's a lot of details! And you are right it is a 91mm (to answer Waterlander's question). Will take a picture from the back and post later today here.

I don´t plan to sell it, not only because was my first SAK, but also the first one that my father gave to me.

I have another old one, black, that I would like to identify as well, but seems to be German not Swiss,so will post in another part of this forum as I think here is just for the Swiss Made.

[Waterlander]

Yes, thank you! You're da man! I was finaly able to identify the name of my Armee Suisse:
Woodsman 236, with bail and T&T, 84mm.

So is it correct that in those days you could order each model in both sizes??
Whatabout the bail and toothpick? And did they offer other colors as well in cellidor?
Questions, questions, questions...I wish I had an old brochure from the forties.. 

[jazzbass]

Yes, thank you! You're da man! I was finaly able to identify the name of my Armee Suisse:
Woodsman 236, with bail and T&T, 84mm.

So is it correct that in those days you could order each model in both sizes??
Whatabout the bail and toothpick? And did they offer other colors as well in cellidor?
Questions, questions, questions...I wish I had an old brochure from the forties.. 

Prior to 1950 and the introduction of all the new tools (file, fish scaler, phillips, etc) there were basically four main models of the Officer's knife. Using modern names, these would be the Spartan, Climber, Camper, and Hunstman. In the terminology of the time, these would be the 234, the 235, the 237 and 236, respectively. All of these were made in both "standard" size (91mm) and "small" size (84mm). They all had the same model number, however, if it was a "small" version it got a "k" (for "klein", the German word for small) after the number. So what we call a Tourist today would have been a 234k. A Climber Small was a 235k, and so on.

All knives could be ordered with toothpick & tweezers, a bail, or both. For these, Victorinox would append more letters to the end of the model number. For t&t, add an "a". For a bail, add a "U". So your 84mm Huntsman w/ bail & t&t would have been a 236kaU.

Now, there WERE other "special" models that were available at the time - Gourmets, Golfers Lumberjacks and Waiters - but these were almost always either 84mm or 91mm, not typically both (and exception is the occasional 91mm Gourmet).

They were primarily made in red cellidor, although there is at least one example of blue celidor showing up in this era  . Not common though. Buffalo horn scales were a lot more common during this time as an alternative to red cellidor. Blue cellidor became more common in the 1960s and beyond, however. Other colors (white, black, etc) didn't show up until the 1980s.

[Waterlander]

They were primarily made in red cellidor, although there is at least one example of blue celidor showing up in this era 

Why am I not surprised? 
Do you have one with Stag too?


Well, this is all excellent information.
Funny thing is I have seen brochures from the 20's, 30's, and 50's. Perhaps it has something to do with WWII, but never from the 40's..? (1937 when celidor started). Do you?

[ICanFixThat]

Very Nice!! 

Looks like Jazzbass pretty much covered it; at least until we see the reverse.

I think the springs on these old knives are pretty good, but not as flexible as new ones (which are quite amazing) so I would refrain from opening more than 1 tool on the same spring at any partially opened position at once, and I would only leave even a single tool on a spring in the fully opened or closed position.  I think if you do this the springs will not give you much trouble unless they have been stressed at some point in their life.

[rmagralha]

Agree ICanFixThat, thank you everyone again.

[T.J. Hooker]

Armée Suisse / Inoxyd

Now, there WERE other "special" models that were available at the time - Gourmets, Golfers Lumberjacks and Waiters - but these were almost always either 84mm or 91mm, not typically both (and exception is the occasional 91mm Gourmet).

I got a golfer(I think).
It has a main blade, small blade, scissors, corkscrew and nail file. No bail
On the main blade it says : Armée Suisse / Inoxyd.

How rare would you say that is?
Thanks.

[Waterlander]

Main blade stamping (f/r):

Armée Suisse / Victorinox
Victorinox / Inoxyd **
Elsener - Switzerland - Stainless / Victorinox *
Armée Suisse / Inoxyd
Elsener - Switzerland - Stainless / Inoxyd *
Elsener - Switzerland - Stainless / [blank] *
Elsener - Schwyz - Swiss Made / Inoxyd *
Armée Suisse / Victoria -Switzerland - Stainless
Victoria -Switzerland - Stainless / [blank]

I just remember I have one with Hoffritz on the tang. It has rivets and bail, but not the old canopener unfortunately.

[Waterlander]

I got a golfer(I think).
It has a main blade, small blade, scissors, corkscrew and nail file. No bail
On the main blade it says : Armée Suisse / Inoxyd.

How rare would you say that is?
Thanks.

I would say very rare! Is she in mint condition? With box?

[jazzbass]

I got a golfer(I think).
It has a main blade, small blade, scissors, corkscrew and nail file. No bail
On the main blade it says : Armée Suisse / Inoxyd.

How rare would you say that is?
Thanks.

With corkscrew? Sounds like a standard Golfer LNF made prior to the introduction of the combo tool in 1980. This was actually a very common production knife back then, although they haven't made them since the early 1970s, so they are getting hard to find. How rare? Well, I guess that depends on how one defines "rare". To me, rare means seldom seen - maybe two a year. Very rare means hardly ever seen - 1 or 2 every seen. I checked and these old style Golfers w/ LNF show up on eBay on average one every two months for the past 3 years. So - not common, to be sure. Very rare? Not IMO.

Now - a Golfer LNF w/o a corkscrew? That's rare.

I just remember I have one with Hoffritz on the tang. It has rivets and bail, but not the old canopener unfortunately.

That would be a knife from the early-mid 1950s, not from the mid-late 1940s era I was talking about in my last post. Hoffritz stamps become relatively common after the new style can opener knives were introduced in 1951 (ish). At first you see them on the back of "Armee Suisse" stamped blades, then later on the front of "Victoria Officier" stamped blades.

[ICanFixThat]

I got a golfer(I think).
It has a main blade, small blade, scissors, corkscrew and nail file. No bail
On the main blade it says : Armée Suisse / Inoxyd.

How rare would you say that is?
Thanks.

I would say very rare! Is she in mint condition? With box?

Rare... such a funny word....  just a bit too ambiguous around here though.

You can be assured though if it has ARMEE SUISSE /Inoxyd on the tang it is very collectable and worth a fair penny.  Condition means a lot on these knives.

[rmagralha]

Hi All, what about this one? Would any of have more information about it. Thank you!

[ColoSwiss]

According to 'Levine's Guide to Knives', Eduard Wusthof began making knives in Solingen in 1814. They still make kitchen cutlery, but stopped making pocket knives in the 1950s. The knives are of 'moderate' value.

Hope that helps.

[rmagralha]

Thank you ColoSwiss!

[kazuya]

Very Nice!! 

[T.J. Hooker]

If I have a knife that ends in 000 KP, what does the P stand for?

My first Victorinox(and that got me loving swiss knives) was a Huntsman.

So if any one has a vintage Huntsman that would like to sell/trade then contact me!
I noticed one on a auction site once. Went way over my budget!

[MARIOS7319]

Rare... such a funny word....  just a bit too ambiguous around here though.

You can be assured though if it has ARMEE SUISSE /Inoxyd on the tang it is very collectable and worth a fair penny.  Condition means a lot on these knives.

I totally agree.

[enki_ck]

Rare... such a funny word....  just a bit too ambiguous around here though.

You can be assured though if it has ARMEE SUISSE /Inoxyd on the tang it is very collectable and worth a fair penny.  Condition means a lot on these knives.

I totally agree.

Especially if you consider what goes as rare on eBay