Multitool.org Forum
+-

Hello Lurker! Remove this ad and much more by logging in.


A little advice please.

Gareth · 44 · 6208

us Offline JAfromMn

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 6,689
  • Stranger in a Strange Land
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #30 on: February 13, 2013, 02:51:57 AM
OK, the tint thing might not be totally Heinz's fault. ;) I also found myself with an old incan torch that was given to my daughter and thinking "that really is a nice colour of light".  Everything else was exactly what you'd expect, dull, ringy etc, but it was nice and "warm" to look at. :D
Another convert!  :D 

The thing about warm tints is they tent to be strongest in the range of the spectrum our eyes are most sensitive to.  The long wavelength (red) cones, and the medium wavelength (green) cones have a fair bit of overlap in the range of wavelengths they're sensitive to.  The brain encodes brightness based on signal intensity, and as a result, when viewing two objectively equally intense narrow spectrum lights (measured in photons, candelas, whatever), one yellow and one blue, we will see the yellow one as brighter.  That's simply because there are a lot more cones in the eye being stimulated and therefore producing a stronger signal sent to the brain. 

Now it's true that a cool tint emitter will be objectively (and perceptually) brighter than a neutral or a warm tint emitter, but this is because of how tints are done on LEDs.  They're coated with a phosphor layer that absorbs some portions of the spectrum, particularly the higher temperature wavelengths.  So even though we're more sensitive to warmer temperatures, we still see a cool tint as brighter because it has a greater amount of total wavelengths in its power spectrum than a neutral or warm tint emitter produces.

The advantage of this, though, is that because of the medium and long cones are being stimulated more by a neutral or warm tint, it provides a stronger activation in what's called the parvocellular retinal ganglion system. 

There are actually five major kinds of different neurons in the retina, with rods and cones being only one type, the photoreceptors.  There are at least four different kinds of retinal ganglion cells, and there may be a new one that was just discovered in the last few years, but I'll have to check to be sure...  Anyway, ganglion cells are the ones that get signals from the photoreceptors and then send that information to the brain.  There are several sub-types, with the magnocellular and parvocellular being the two main types.  It's the parvocellular ones that give us our detail, acuity, and color vision; the magno cells only encode motion and changes in brightness. 

Anyway, to get back to the point, the extra activation of the parvocellular system gives us better depth perception with a neutral or warm tint.  Shadows appear crisper and darker as a result, and it's those brightness differences that also affect the magno system, which increases our sense of depth with a neutral or warm tint as well. 

The magno system does get input from the cones, but it's important to note that rods only send their input to magno cells.  Thus, when you're fully dark adapted, what's called scotopic vision, only your rods are working as those levels of light are too dim to actually activate the cones.  Rods are six to ten times more sensitive to light than cones are; it takes only a single photon of light to stimulate a rod to fire an action potential.  A cone on the other hand, requires (you guessed it) six to ten photons of light to activate and produce an action potential.  What's more, rods are maximally sensitive at a wavelength of about 505 nm, which is on the green/blue borderline of the visible spectrum, but yet that information isn't encoded by the brain, so we are literally color blind when in true scotopic vision.  This results in a simple rule of thumb to know if you're truly in scotopic vision; if you can see the color of the light, it's too bright, and you're compromising your scotopic vision. 

I guess I should just skip explaining the difference between dark adaptation and scotopic vision for now, since I've really gone off on a wild tangent here!   :whistle:

Okay, brain-dump over.

Ahhhhhhhhhh

my brain hurts.


great post Heinz

Stay Warm
Defend the Hive!!!


gb Offline nuphoria

  • Ambidangerous Mistress of Mod
  • Admin Team
  • *
  • Zombie Apprentice
  • *
    • Posts: 15,038
  • I'm not all bad, I'm just drawn that way.
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #31 on: February 13, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
A dyslexic man walks in to a bra...

All my music for free: http://soundcloud.com/chrissyvandyke


us Offline Heinz Doofenshmirtz

  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,902
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #32 on: February 13, 2013, 09:08:02 PM
OK, the tint thing might not be totally Heinz's fault. ;) I also found myself with an old incan torch that was given to my daughter and thinking "that really is a nice colour of light".  Everything else was exactly what you'd expect, dull, ringy etc, but it was nice and "warm" to look at. :D
Another convert!  :D 

The thing about warm tints is they tent to be strongest in the range of the spectrum our eyes are most sensitive to.  The long wavelength (red) cones, and the medium wavelength (green) cones have a fair bit of overlap in the range of wavelengths they're sensitive to.  The brain encodes brightness based on signal intensity, and as a result, when viewing two objectively equally intense narrow spectrum lights (measured in photons, candelas, whatever), one yellow and one blue, we will see the yellow one as brighter.  That's simply because there are a lot more cones in the eye being stimulated and therefore producing a stronger signal sent to the brain. 

Now it's true that a cool tint emitter will be objectively (and perceptually) brighter than a neutral or a warm tint emitter, but this is because of how tints are done on LEDs.  They're coated with a phosphor layer that absorbs some portions of the spectrum, particularly the higher temperature wavelengths.  So even though we're more sensitive to warmer temperatures, we still see a cool tint as brighter because it has a greater amount of total wavelengths in its power spectrum than a neutral or warm tint emitter produces.

The advantage of this, though, is that because of the medium and long cones are being stimulated more by a neutral or warm tint, it provides a stronger activation in what's called the parvocellular retinal ganglion system. 

There are actually five major kinds of different neurons in the retina, with rods and cones being only one type, the photoreceptors.  There are at least four different kinds of retinal ganglion cells, and there may be a new one that was just discovered in the last few years, but I'll have to check to be sure...  Anyway, ganglion cells are the ones that get signals from the photoreceptors and then send that information to the brain.  There are several sub-types, with the magnocellular and parvocellular being the two main types.  It's the parvocellular ones that give us our detail, acuity, and color vision; the magno cells only encode motion and changes in brightness. 

Anyway, to get back to the point, the extra activation of the parvocellular system gives us better depth perception with a neutral or warm tint.  Shadows appear crisper and darker as a result, and it's those brightness differences that also affect the magno system, which increases our sense of depth with a neutral or warm tint as well. 

The magno system does get input from the cones, but it's important to note that rods only send their input to magno cells.  Thus, when you're fully dark adapted, what's called scotopic vision, only your rods are working as those levels of light are too dim to actually activate the cones.  Rods are six to ten times more sensitive to light than cones are; it takes only a single photon of light to stimulate a rod to fire an action potential.  A cone on the other hand, requires (you guessed it) six to ten photons of light to activate and produce an action potential.  What's more, rods are maximally sensitive at a wavelength of about 505 nm, which is on the green/blue borderline of the visible spectrum, but yet that information isn't encoded by the brain, so we are literally color blind when in true scotopic vision.  This results in a simple rule of thumb to know if you're truly in scotopic vision; if you can see the color of the light, it's too bright, and you're compromising your scotopic vision. 

I guess I should just skip explaining the difference between dark adaptation and scotopic vision for now, since I've really gone off on a wild tangent here!   :whistle:

Okay, brain-dump over.

Ahhhhhhhhhh

my brain hurts.


great post Heinz

Stay Warm
Hope it helps!   :tu:

And don't worry about your brain... I'm sure it's fine.  I've spent, literally, a third of my life studying and teaching this stuff, so I know a lot about it.  I've even worked as a neurophysiology researcher studying the visual systems and functions of the brain using rhesus monkeys.  No more stabbing monkey brains for me though... in-vivo neurophysiology research is definitely fascinating, but just not my particular bag.  If you had weirdos like me sticking needles in your brains that are hooked up to oscilloscopes, potentiometers, and other things like that, then you'd have to worry about your brain!   :o
The first Noble Truth: life is suffering.  Only by accepting that fact can we transcend it.


scotland Offline Gareth

  • Admin Team
  • Point Of No Return
  • *
    • Posts: 37,694
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #33 on: February 15, 2013, 06:28:23 PM
Just arrived today and I've had a couple of minutes to play with it.  Initial impressions are very good. :mail:
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


hr Offline enki_ck

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Absolute Zombie Club
  • *
    • Posts: 20,935
  • I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #34 on: February 15, 2013, 07:11:11 PM
Just arrived today and I've had a couple of minutes to play with it.  Initial impressions are very good. :mail:

Fast shipping, what was it, 5 days? Where did you get it from? And looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it, with pics of course. :D


scotland Offline Gareth

  • Admin Team
  • Point Of No Return
  • *
    • Posts: 37,694
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #35 on: February 15, 2013, 07:18:09 PM
Yeah, five days from time of order, bought from Illumination Gear.  I've not used them before but I will certainly consider using them again. :salute:

BTW, the "cost" of the light dropped to $15 on the declaration form. Top chaps. :whistle:
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


hr Offline enki_ck

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Absolute Zombie Club
  • *
    • Posts: 20,935
  • I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #36 on: February 15, 2013, 08:02:23 PM
:D

Very nice of them. :salute:


gb Offline nuphoria

  • Ambidangerous Mistress of Mod
  • Admin Team
  • *
  • Zombie Apprentice
  • *
    • Posts: 15,038
  • I'm not all bad, I'm just drawn that way.
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #37 on: February 15, 2013, 11:16:16 PM
Yeah, they're good like that ;)
A dyslexic man walks in to a bra...

All my music for free: http://soundcloud.com/chrissyvandyke


scotland Offline Gareth

  • Admin Team
  • Point Of No Return
  • *
    • Posts: 37,694
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #38 on: February 15, 2013, 11:59:41 PM
OK.  Second impressions are still good.  It's about as compact as I expected and I think just about small enough to be carried on my keys.  I'm very happy with the LED I picked, nice warm tint and good hot-spot.  Very well made light and good clip IMO. 

The not-so-hot; the reverse clicky is a little hard to get to with my thumb, and it's not like I have fat fingers.  The D25A Clicky does not have mode memory in the 'group 1' setting (i.e with the bezel loosened), my understanding is that the larger lights in the family do. :-\  Shame, as I rather like the medium level and I have to click through to get to it.

There is nothing however that I truly dislike on this light and it nicely falls into my "small enough, bright enough, versatile enough" wish list of features. :tu:
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


gb Offline nuphoria

  • Ambidangerous Mistress of Mod
  • Admin Team
  • *
  • Zombie Apprentice
  • *
    • Posts: 15,038
  • I'm not all bad, I'm just drawn that way.
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #39 on: February 16, 2013, 01:41:23 PM
Hmm, not perfect then... the C model is wider so no probs getting at the button.

I'm not getting the medium level on mine with an RCR123 though ???
Seems to go from low to high and high! Must be a direct drive thing.
A dyslexic man walks in to a bra...

All my music for free: http://soundcloud.com/chrissyvandyke


scotland Offline Gareth

  • Admin Team
  • Point Of No Return
  • *
    • Posts: 37,694
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #40 on: February 16, 2013, 04:13:13 PM
As my wife is currently gushing at me over her new Nexus 7, I thought I'd show her all the nifty new features of my little light. ;)  Without any prompting she commented on just how "rosy" the light colour was compared to my other lights.

I suspect if they put a little chamfer on the inner edge of the switch area then it would improve access to the boot without affecting anything else.  All-in-all I'm a happy camper though. :tu:
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


hr Offline enki_ck

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Absolute Zombie Club
  • *
    • Posts: 20,935
  • I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #41 on: February 16, 2013, 06:29:04 PM
Glad you like it. :tu: I prefer forward clickies myself.


scotland Offline Gareth

  • Admin Team
  • Point Of No Return
  • *
    • Posts: 37,694
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #42 on: February 18, 2013, 09:56:17 AM
I prefer a forward clicky myself, but it's no big deal to me.  I should also add that the sheath you get with these is very nice.   I'm not planning on using it myself, but I can see that it would be a great option for people with the larger lights who like to belt carry. :tu:

I have also just tried a 14500 in it and it does indeed go to direct drive and pump out a heck of a lot of light. :o   It also pumps out a heck of a lot of heat so, as per Eagletac's advice, I'll not be doing it often or for long.  Still a good party trick though. :D
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


scotland Offline Gareth

  • Admin Team
  • Point Of No Return
  • *
    • Posts: 37,694
Re: A little advice please.
Reply #43 on: April 03, 2013, 11:58:50 PM
A month and a half after getting this light and it's still in my pocket. :tu:  In fact I don't think I've carried another light in all that time. :o  Not quite true; I've had my iTP SA2 in my bag the whole time, but it's never been used. ;)

This really might be the "one to rule them all" light for me.  Well, until I get another urge for something bright and shiny. :D
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


 

Donations

Operational Funds

Help us keep the Unworkable working!
Donate with PayPal!
April Goal: $300.00
Due Date: Apr 30
Total Receipts: $115.65
PayPal Fees: $7.03
Net Balance: $108.62
Below Goal: $191.38
Site Currency: USD
36% 
April Donations

Community Links


Powered by EzPortal