Misalignment is really annoying, it messes with my OCD profoundly. I have straightened 91mm corkscrews and scissors several times and they were only off by a tiny amount. My Swisstool collection is relativey small, 1 original and 4 Spirits, and of those I use only 1. Fortunately my user is aligned, or I would have noticed this issue early on. After reading through the thread, I believe the problem is tooling wear over time, whether it's the pivots or the stamping or a combination of both. Both of my standard Spirits are early production as well as my Swisstool, and all lay flat both open and closed -- I think this was the design intention. Sadly, the RT and BO models I have are misaligned, which is aggravating considering the premium prices for these. Both the RT and BO are later production. My advice for those of us who have trouble dealing with misalignment, unbalance, and poor quality quality control, is to find the earliest production models you can.
Or seek counseling for OCD. They're tools dude.
Misalignment is really annoying, it messes with my OCD profoundly.
Quote from: twiliter on March 11, 2015, 01:35:05 PMMisalignment is really annoying, it messes with my OCD profoundly.How are you with SAKs? The way the knives are bent to fit in really gets to me.
Quote from: zoidberg on March 11, 2015, 11:05:54 PMQuote from: twiliter on March 11, 2015, 01:35:05 PMMisalignment is really annoying, it messes with my OCD profoundly.How are you with SAKs? The way the knives are bent to fit in really gets to me.I'm ok with the blades being ground more on one side, it's properly designed that way. The only Vic SAK blade I've seen centered is the alox Solo.
Late to the party, but my Swisstool was like that too. I ended up switching to a Leatherman.
Yep, my Surge was off by at least 3mm closed at the end of the handles, and my Spirit RT is off by a tiny amount, but my older LM's and SwissTools are all aligned, therefore I try to get the first runs or oldest examples possible. Looks like these companies need quality control people for their quality control people, because they don't seem to have an effing clue or even care at all... Thank goodness for the individual craftsmen, who all seem like artists nowadays.
Quote from: twiliter on February 14, 2016, 03:36:35 PMYep, my Surge was off by at least 3mm closed at the end of the handles, and my Spirit RT is off by a tiny amount, but my older LM's and SwissTools are all aligned, therefore I try to get the first runs or oldest examples possible. Looks like these companies need quality control people for their quality control people, because they don't seem to have an effing clue or even care at all... Thank goodness for the individual craftsmen, who all seem like artists nowadays. Yeah, i am amazed when a surge with two awls leaves the factory or when a supertool 300 with the file machined only half way leaves the factory.My spirit will arrive tuesday. We wil see how that one looks.
Instant collectibles destined for ebay!!!
I have never seen perfect tool in my life. If you look close enough on any tool, you will find some imperfection on it, no ecceptions...
Quote from: Crow on February 14, 2016, 05:38:58 PMI have never seen perfect tool in my life. If you look close enough on any tool, you will find some imperfection on it, no ecceptions...I agree, i have never had an MT that was absolutely perfect in my life. The best i've had is my current EDC Swisstool X. But even that one is not perfect.The leatherman tools where so bad that i have stopped buying leatherman multitools, i have given up the hope for a flawless leatherman. Victorinox is my new MT supplier so i hope my spirit x is flawless. I dont mind a little bit of missalingement but 1 mm or more is too much. I have a good experience with victorinox and i hope the spirit will keep my spirit high, when it has arrived a will keep you guys updated on how i am liking it.
Quote from: anditsgone on February 14, 2016, 08:31:41 PMQuote from: Crow on February 14, 2016, 05:38:58 PMI have never seen perfect tool in my life. If you look close enough on any tool, you will find some imperfection on it, no ecceptions...I agree, i have never had an MT that was absolutely perfect in my life. The best i've had is my current EDC Swisstool X. But even that one is not perfect.The leatherman tools where so bad that i have stopped buying leatherman multitools, i have given up the hope for a flawless leatherman. Victorinox is my new MT supplier so i hope my spirit x is flawless. I dont mind a little bit of missalingement but 1 mm or more is too much. I have a good experience with victorinox and i hope the spirit will keep my spirit high, when it has arrived a will keep you guys updated on how i am liking it.I own 4 Swisstools, 3 of those were bought new, the other one I won here in an awesome giveaway by Tom (known as bmot, who hasn't been online since September 7, 2015 ... which I find quite worrying ).So I can only judge the 3 I bought myself, and those are just perfect. And believe me, I'm very demanding when it comes to fit and finish. At the local army surplus store they already know me so well, that when I'm there to buy a Leatherman, they place like 10 times the same tool on the counter and leave me alone for half an hour (and more than once I ask them if they have any others ... ). Buying my Rebar there was hell, it took me about one hour to pick one, only to have it break on me 2 days later when I was taking pics of it, so I went back to exchange it for another Rebar (again taking my time to pick a "good" one) only to find out, once I got home, that the handles were so misaligned that it caused some problems while closing the tool (I checked all the tools on the Rebars they had in the store, but I did not check the tool when it was closed ... ).I also own 5 Spirits, and apart from the misalignment on some of them (Only one of them lies completely flat, all the others have a slight misalignment, two almost not visable without placing the tool on a flat surface, one you can spot without placing the tool on a flat surface, and one has a more obvious misalignment) they are all perfect. No plier head rubbing against something when you're closing the tool, no file rubbing against the inside of the tool, no knife that needs to be pushed to the inside to get it back in the tool, no ...As always, this is just my own humble opinion, but I just can't find any flaws on my Swisstools ( to be clear, I'm talking about my Swisstools, not my Swisstool Spirits) ...
Since long time ago, I always bring SAK everyday. And only in the last three years I began to combine plier based MT with my SAK. I use Wave as my first plier based MT. But because it's not comfortable in the hand (lots of sharp edges when used in a closed mode) finally I sell it and I switched to Charge TTI. This model is much more comfortable in the hand, but it's still pinching my palms when I use the pliers. Soon I also bought a Spirit, so I had a chance to compare the two in the same time. Until eventually about a few days ago I had to sell one of them, I chose to sell the Charge TTI, because the Spirit in my opinion is more suitable for my needs, I think this misalignment does not affect the function from the Spirit. Lucky me, I got the Spirit with only little misalignment.In my observations from some store, The Spirit with noticeable misalignment is the Spirit with the Vic Shield logo located above the Victorinox.
Quote from: classicrock on February 15, 2016, 03:52:50 PMSince long time ago, I always bring SAK everyday. And only in the last three years I began to combine plier based MT with my SAK. I use Wave as my first plier based MT. But because it's not comfortable in the hand (lots of sharp edges when used in a closed mode) finally I sell it and I switched to Charge TTI. This model is much more comfortable in the hand, but it's still pinching my palms when I use the pliers. Soon I also bought a Spirit, so I had a chance to compare the two in the same time. Until eventually about a few days ago I had to sell one of them, I chose to sell the Charge TTI, because the Spirit in my opinion is more suitable for my needs, I think this misalignment does not affect the function from the Spirit. Lucky me, I got the Spirit with only little misalignment.In my observations from some store, The Spirit with noticeable misalignment is the Spirit with the Vic Shield logo located above the Victorinox.I've also noticed this, I bought my three "butterblade" Spirits at the army surplus store that I've mentioned before, and they had been there for quite some time apparently, and nobody wanted to buy them. Here in Belgium, everybody knows a Leatherman, but nobody knows the plier based tools from Victorinox, and when I show them one of mine, they still call it a Leatherman .
Quote from: Top-Gear-24 on February 15, 2016, 04:44:28 PMQuote from: classicrock on February 15, 2016, 03:52:50 PMSince long time ago, I always bring SAK everyday. And only in the last three years I began to combine plier based MT with my SAK. I use Wave as my first plier based MT. But because it's not comfortable in the hand (lots of sharp edges when used in a closed mode) finally I sell it and I switched to Charge TTI. This model is much more comfortable in the hand, but it's still pinching my palms when I use the pliers. Soon I also bought a Spirit, so I had a chance to compare the two in the same time. Until eventually about a few days ago I had to sell one of them, I chose to sell the Charge TTI, because the Spirit in my opinion is more suitable for my needs, I think this misalignment does not affect the function from the Spirit. Lucky me, I got the Spirit with only little misalignment.In my observations from some store, The Spirit with noticeable misalignment is the Spirit with the Vic Shield logo located above the Victorinox.I've also noticed this, I bought my three "butterblade" Spirits at the army surplus store that I've mentioned before, and they had been there for quite some time apparently, and nobody wanted to buy them. Here in Belgium, everybody knows a Leatherman, but nobody knows the plier based tools from Victorinox, and when I show them one of mine, they still call it a Leatherman .A bit off-topic but the same goes here in the Netherlands, i think at has to do with bad marketing from victorinox and not enough marketing from victorinox. I also think that the availability has room for improvement, the most well know knives and multitools retailer in the Netherlands doesn't offer all the different models and black oxide versions. I also think Victorinox should only focus on a couple of models. I guess that the average person has the most utility from the X version. Make a lot of them and make them cheaper. Wave price is 99 retail, think that victorinox should try be at that price or maybe make it 89. It is now 109 which isnt that bad. But i guess that 99 and 109 is some magical barrier In total they have 29 Spirit reviews and 544 wave reviews. Where did it go bad?? I guess mainly on an array of marketing faults. Not advertised enough, not available in all the stores that also sell leatherman's, and when they are in the stores they are too expensive compared to leatherman tools. They also have too many models and versions. If i search Spirit on the retailers website i get nine pictures of the same spirit in the plier position. How will a unexperienced buyer ever make a decission which one to choose, the only difference is the price from 109 all the way to 179 for the plus model.So victorinox if you are reading this, stay with the X models (sorry guys that love the butter blade ) and try to retail it for the price that the Rebar / wave retails for. The quality will make it a best seller. I do understand that this is hard to do because it will probably cost more to make a spirit than to make a wave because of the higher fit and finish and polished finish. But looking at their SAK's they are the master in producing high quality for low prices
Quote from: anditsgone on February 15, 2016, 07:25:12 PMQuote from: Top-Gear-24 on February 15, 2016, 04:44:28 PMQuote from: classicrock on February 15, 2016, 03:52:50 PMSince long time ago, I always bring SAK everyday. And only in the last three years I began to combine plier based MT with my SAK. I use Wave as my first plier based MT. But because it's not comfortable in the hand (lots of sharp edges when used in a closed mode) finally I sell it and I switched to Charge TTI. This model is much more comfortable in the hand, but it's still pinching my palms when I use the pliers. Soon I also bought a Spirit, so I had a chance to compare the two in the same time. Until eventually about a few days ago I had to sell one of them, I chose to sell the Charge TTI, because the Spirit in my opinion is more suitable for my needs, I think this misalignment does not affect the function from the Spirit. Lucky me, I got the Spirit with only little misalignment.In my observations from some store, The Spirit with noticeable misalignment is the Spirit with the Vic Shield logo located above the Victorinox.I've also noticed this, I bought my three "butterblade" Spirits at the army surplus store that I've mentioned before, and they had been there for quite some time apparently, and nobody wanted to buy them. Here in Belgium, everybody knows a Leatherman, but nobody knows the plier based tools from Victorinox, and when I show them one of mine, they still call it a Leatherman .A bit off-topic but the same goes here in the Netherlands, i think at has to do with bad marketing from victorinox and not enough marketing from victorinox. I also think that the availability has room for improvement, the most well know knives and multitools retailer in the Netherlands doesn't offer all the different models and black oxide versions. I also think Victorinox should only focus on a couple of models. I guess that the average person has the most utility from the X version. Make a lot of them and make them cheaper. Wave price is 99 retail, think that victorinox should try be at that price or maybe make it 89. It is now 109 which isnt that bad. But i guess that 99 and 109 is some magical barrier In total they have 29 Spirit reviews and 544 wave reviews. Where did it go bad?? I guess mainly on an array of marketing faults. Not advertised enough, not available in all the stores that also sell leatherman's, and when they are in the stores they are too expensive compared to leatherman tools. They also have too many models and versions. If i search Spirit on the retailers website i get nine pictures of the same spirit in the plier position. How will a unexperienced buyer ever make a decission which one to choose, the only difference is the price from 109 all the way to 179 for the plus model.So victorinox if you are reading this, stay with the X models (sorry guys that love the butter blade ) and try to retail it for the price that the Rebar / wave retails for. The quality will make it a best seller. I do understand that this is hard to do because it will probably cost more to make a spirit than to make a wave because of the higher fit and finish and polished finish. But looking at their SAK's they are the master in producing high quality for low prices Here in Belgium, a bit to the south of the Netherlands, the Wave retails at 149,95 Euro, and the Spirit (if you manage to find one) goes for around 100 Euro (the official price on the one I bought was 94 Euro, but that was a couple of years ago, back when the Wave would only cost you 139,95 Euro ). So the Spirit is about 1/3 cheaper than the Wave, and still nobody wants it ... I blame bad marketing from Victorinox, and the fact that they are very (VERY !!! ) hard to find, SAK's everywhere, but a Spirit or a Swisstool ... nope .
Here in Belgium, a bit to the south of the Netherlands, the Wave retails at 149,95 Euro, and the Spirit (if you manage to find one) goes for around 100 Euro (the official price on the one I bought was 94 Euro, but that was a couple of years ago, back when the Wave would only cost you 139,95 Euro ). So the Spirit is about 1/3 cheaper than the Wave, and still nobody wants it ... I blame bad marketing from Victorinox, and the fact that they are very (VERY !!! ) hard to find, SAK's everywhere, but a Spirit or a Swisstool ... nope .
Quote from: Top-Gear-24 on February 15, 2016, 07:38:52 PMHere in Belgium, a bit to the south of the Netherlands, the Wave retails at 149,95 Euro, and the Spirit (if you manage to find one) goes for around 100 Euro (the official price on the one I bought was 94 Euro, but that was a couple of years ago, back when the Wave would only cost you 139,95 Euro ). So the Spirit is about 1/3 cheaper than the Wave, and still nobody wants it ... I blame bad marketing from Victorinox, and the fact that they are very (VERY !!! ) hard to find, SAK's everywhere, but a Spirit or a Swisstool ... nope .Another story from Indonesia, the Spirit Plus price is around 2.200.000 IDR, Spirit only without bitkit is around 1.500.000 IDR and the Charge TTi cost you 3.179.000 IDR and the Wave price is 1.900.000 IDR. From the price you could see the Spirit are lot cheaper than the Wave or Charge TTi. But the Leathermans wins here because they available in most hardware store and their warranty is excellent, the distributor will replace your broken LM in 2 weeks. But the Vic's distributor don't do the same with their products, they only can help us to send the unit back to Switzerland.And the Spirit is hard to find here, they only can be found at Vic's distributor store or in an annual outdoor gear exhibition.Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
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