Weapons of War Through History

[kirk13]

Ah, the Sabre.   One of the most beautiful fighters ever built.  The MiG-15 was intended more as a bomber destroyer than an air superiority fighter, hence its cannon armament.  Like in my post above regarding the Zero, the guns on the MiG had a slow rate of fire, which was a disadvantage in a dogfight.  Plus, the trajectories for the 23mm and 37mm guns were different.  American pilots reported cases of the 23's going over their aircraft, while 37mm shells went below them!    The Sabre also had a radar gunsight while the MiG did not.  However, one famous US ace, Gabby Gabreski, didn't bother with it.  He chewed gum in the cockpit, and in action stuck it to the windscreen and aimed with that.  Didn't hurt that he'd already racked up 32 kills flying P-47's over Europe before he got 6 MiGs over Korea......


The above post was done at work all from the useless stuff rattling around my head, without reference materials.  That No Life tag under my profile pic is appropriate at times.... 

You think that's bad?

A lot of years ago,I was at the RAF museum in Hendon with a mate. We were wandering around the Bomber a Command hall,and I was pontificating on one of the exhibits,when we caught up with a guided tour. The guide ended up being quiet,and suggested his party listen to me instead

[ducttapetech]

M1 Garand.








The M1 Garand......nuff said.
)

that's us mobile

[kirk13]

The legendary McDonnell Douglas F4 Phantom, in this instance the RAFs FGR2. The GE J79 turbo jets were replaced by Rolls Royce Spey turbofans,which were more powerful,burnt less fuel,and eliminated the tell tale black exhaust trails. Problem was,the redesigned air intakes created more drag,nullifying any advantage the Spey offered.

[ducttapetech]

The M1 was designed by John c. Garand and produced by Springfield armory and later by other companies like Browning to meet wartime production during WW2.
It is a semi auto rifle shooting a 30.06 round. The clip held eight rounds. After the 8 round is shoot out it a make "ping" ejecting the clip also.
The M1 is notorious for cause "garand thumb" when it was being loaded with a new clip and the receiver would smash there thumb if they where not careful.


that's us mobile

[jerseydevil]

M1 Thumb hurts just a tiny bit.....    Beautiful rifle though, I have one.    Here's me with one this spring at a military vehicle show...

[jerseydevil]

You think that's bad?

A lot of years ago,I was at the RAF museum in Hendon with a mate. We were wandering around the Bomber a Command hall,and I was pontificating on one of the exhibits,when we caught up with a guided tour. The guide ended up being quiet,and suggested his party listen to me instead

   I had a similar experience several years ago at Gettysburg.  I was with some friends, describing the Confederate First Corps assault on the Union left on July 2.  Walking the field through the Peach Orchard, I realized that my group of five friends had grown to fifteen people.....

[ducttapetech]

Last year, the tourguide asked me to quit drooling on the Bf 109s and the C130 gunships.

that's us mobile

[kirk13]

AC130U-

I remember reading a story,I think from the invasion of Grenada,where a squad of Marines were pinned down by a HMG nest on the third or fourth floor of a building. A prowling Spestre was called in,and contacted the Marines. The Captain of the Spectre wanted to know where the target was,the Marines indicated the building...the irate pilot demanded to know what WINDOW,not what building!

[Wilfried]

I've a funny feeling I'm going to learn a thing or two about weapons...     

[ducttapetech]

M1 Thumb hurts just a tiny bit.....    Beautiful rifle though, I have one.    Here's me with one this spring at a military vehicle show...

Nice looking rifle tom. I have one myself. Great shooter.

that's us mobile

[jerseydevil]

AC130U-

I remember reading a story,I think from the invasion of Grenada,where a squad of Marines were pinned down by a HMG nest on the third or fourth floor of a building. A prowling Spestre was called in,and contacted the Marines. The Captain of the Spectre wanted to know where the target was,the Marines indicated the building...the irate pilot demanded to know what WINDOW,not what building!

   A guy I know was a crewman on the AC-119s in Vietnam.  A very proud, distinct group those gunship crewmen......

[jerseydevil]

I've a funny feeling I'm going to learn a thing or two about weapons...     

Wait until you read the big post I started working on last night.  Jacky Fisher and his "greyhounds"...... 

Nice looking rifle tom. I have one myself. Great shooter.

Yeah the M1 is a great rifle.  My father had a National Match one for many years.  Mine is nothing crazy like that, but is still a tack driver.  As a lefty though, I can't load by blocking the operating rod handle with the edge of my palm.  Thumb in and get it the hell out of there quick or OW!

[ducttapetech]

I've a funny feeling I'm going to learn a thing or two about weapons...     

Might as well. One of the few threads here with good intel in it.
)

that's us mobile

[kirk13]

AC130U-

I remember reading a story,I think from the invasion of Grenada,where a squad of Marines were pinned down by a HMG nest on the third or fourth floor of a building. A prowling Spestre was called in,and contacted the Marines. The Captain of the Spectre wanted to know where the target was,the Marines indicated the building...the irate pilot demanded to know what WINDOW,not what building!

   A guy I know was a crewman on the AC-119s in Vietnam.  A very proud, distinct group those gunship crewmen......

My other favourite story about Spectres is about the crew pulled in front of their CO after a mission... The CO complements their shooting,taking 3 shots with the 105 to get a hidden MG nest,but tearing a strip off them,because as a tax payer he could justify 66% wastage

[Wilfried]

Fokker Eindecker (“Monoplane”)



The first airplanes that took to the sky in WW-I had only one purpose -- scouting enemy positions and movements. Still, in no time at all, their pilots looked for ways to shoot each other down. Flyers made the first kills by firing pistols and rifles off to the side. Then backseat observers began operating movable machine guns. But what they clearly needed were forward-firing guns that could bring an enemy down from behind.


The Fokker Eindecker fighters were a series of German World War I monoplane single-seat fighter aircraft designed by Dutch engineer Anthony Fokker.

Developed in April 1915, the first Eindecker ("Monoplane") was the first purpose-built German fighter aircraft and the first aircraft to be fitted with a synchronization gear, enabling the pilot to fire a machine gun through the arc of the propeller without striking the blades.

The Eindecker granted the German Air Service a degree of air superiority from July 1915 until early 1916. This period was known as the "Fokker Scourge," during which Allied aviators regarded their poorly armed aircraft as "Fokker Fodder".

Boelcke, Immelmann and Wintgens all received Germany's highest military decoration, the Pour le Mérite or "Blue Max", while flying the Eindecker, after each pilot passed the then-required eight victory total for each aviator.

The arrival in early 1916 of the Airco DH.2 and Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.2 and F.E.8 pusher aircraft, along with the French Nieuport 11, brought the dominance of the Eindecker to an end, and with it, the "Fokker Scourge".


Anthony Fokker at the controls of the Fokker Eindecker




Fokker Eindecker 1915




Fokker Eindecker

[J-sews]

AC130U-

I remember reading a story,I think from the invasion of Grenada,where a squad of Marines were pinned down by a HMG nest on the third or fourth floor of a building. A prowling Spestre was called in,and contacted the Marines. The Captain of the Spectre wanted to know where the target was,the Marines indicated the building...the irate pilot demanded to know what WINDOW,not what building!

   A guy I know was a crewman on the AC-119s in Vietnam.  A very proud, distinct group those gunship crewmen......

My other favourite story about Spectres is about the crew pulled in front of their CO after a mission... The CO complements their shooting,taking 3 shots with the 105 to get a hidden MG nest,but tearing a strip off them,because as a tax payer he could justify 66% wastage

Those are great stories Kirk, thanks!

[Wilfried]

Ah, the Sabre.   One of the most beautiful fighters ever built.  The MiG-15 was intended more as a bomber destroyer than an air superiority fighter, hence its cannon armament.  Like in my post above regarding the Zero, the guns on the MiG had a slow rate of fire, which was a disadvantage in a dogfight.  Plus, the trajectories for the 23mm and 37mm guns were different.  American pilots reported cases of the 23's going over their aircraft, while 37mm shells went below them!    The Sabre also had a radar gunsight while the MiG did not.  However, one famous US ace, Gabby Gabreski, didn't bother with it.  He chewed gum in the cockpit, and in action stuck it to the windscreen and aimed with that.  Didn't hurt that he'd already racked up 32 kills flying P-47's over Europe before he got 6 MiGs over Korea......

Great story!   

I can hardly wait for your take on the dreadnought class of battleships!

 

[kirk13]

Fokker Eindecker (“Monoplane”)



The first airplanes that took to the sky in WW-I had only one purpose -- scouting enemy positions and movements. Still, in no time at all, their pilots looked for ways to shoot each other down. Flyers made the first kills by firing pistols and rifles off to the side. Then backseat observers began operating movable machine guns. But what they clearly needed were forward-firing guns that could bring an enemy down from behind.


The Fokker Eindecker fighters were a series of German World War I monoplane single-seat fighter aircraft designed by Dutch engineer Anthony Fokker.

Developed in April 1915, the first Eindecker ("Monoplane") was the first purpose-built German fighter aircraft and the first aircraft to be fitted with a synchronization gear, enabling the pilot to fire a machine gun through the arc of the propeller without striking the blades.

The Eindecker granted the German Air Service a degree of air superiority from July 1915 until early 1916. This period was known as the "Fokker Scourge," during which Allied aviators regarded their poorly armed aircraft as "Fokker Fodder".

Boelcke, Immelmann and Wintgens all received Germany's highest military decoration, the Pour le Mérite or "Blue Max", while flying the Eindecker, after each pilot passed the then-required eight victory total for each aviator.

The arrival in early 1916 of the Airco DH.2 and Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.2 and F.E.8 pusher aircraft, along with the French Nieuport 11, brought the dominance of the Eindecker to an end, and with it, the "Fokker Scourge".


Anthony Fokker at the controls of the Fokker Eindecker

(Image removed from quote.)


Fokker Eindecker 1915

(Image removed from quote.)


Fokker Eindecker

(Image removed from quote.)

There's a few little point here I'd like to raise...

The primary use of aircraft,at least of a tactical level in WW1 was recon and artillery spotting. The rise of the scout,or fighter,was to limit or stop the enemy recon flights. As stated,the first air combats were undertaken with pistols and rifles. The breakthrough of using the whole airplane as a aiming system was made by the French, and Morane-Saulnier test pilot Roland Garros( I always wondered why the French named a tennis court after a fighter pilot...turns out he'd been a tennis player before the war)

Garros was responsible for fitting deflector blades to his propeller, allowing the machine gun to fire through the arc of the prop,thus allowing Garros to aim the plane,rather than the gun. Garros scored three confirmed kills before an engine failure forced him down behind German lines. The panic caused by Garros accelerated the development of the cam driven interrupter gear at Fokkers.

The German Jastas dominated the skies under Boelcke and his contemperies. The RFC pilots had a life expectancy of 2weeks.

Ironically,the eindekkers  were terrible airplanes,even by the standard of the times.

On a personal note,in the town I'd lived in in SA, Uitenhage,there was a persistent story that Max Immelmann,was born there,as there'd been a lot of German settlers in the Eastern Cape from the 1840s on. Turns out there was no truth to it,but it was a nice story

[kirk13]

On the subject of WW1 fighters, Richard Bach,the author pilot, wrote an article called 'I shot down the Red Baron and so what?' Where he'd flown recreations of Fokker DVIIs and Albatross DV scouts,both of which were quantum leaps over the Fokker E series,and a condemned them as suicidal death traps

[kkokkolis]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Κopis


Greek hoplite (standing) using a kopis against a Persian warrior. Depiction in ancient kylix, 5th century BC, National Archaeological Museum of Athens.


An illustration showing a kopis with a hook-like hilt. Contemporary representations often show the kopis being raised over the left shoulder in preparation for a powerful downward swing.

The term kopis (from Greek κοπίς, plural kopides from κόπτω - koptō, "to cut, to strike"; alternatively a derivation from the Ancient Egyptian term khopesh for a cutting sword has been postulated) in Ancient Greece could describe a heavy knife with a forward-curving blade, primarily used as a tool for cutting meat, for ritual slaughter and animal sacrifice, or refer to a single edged cutting or "cut and thrust" sword with a similarly shaped blade.

The kopis sword was a one-handed weapon. Early examples had a blade length of up to 65 cm, making it almost equal in size to the spatha. Later Macedonian examples tended to be shorter with a blade length of about 48 cm. The kopis had a single-edged blade that pitched forward towards the point, the edge being concave on the part of the sword nearest the hilt, but swelling to convexity towards the tip. This shape, often termed "recurved", distributes the weight in such a way that the kopis was capable of delivering a blow with the momentum of an axe, whilst maintaining the long cutting edge of a sword and a capability to deliver a thrust. Some scholars have claimed an Etruscan origin for the sword, as such swords have been found as early as the 7th century BC in Etruria.
The kopis is often compared to the contemporary Iberian falcata and the more recent, and shorter, Nepalese kukri. The word itself is the Greek feminine singular noun. The difference in meaning between kopis and makhaira (μάχαιρα, another Greek word, meaning "chopper" or "short sword", "dagger") is not entirely clear in ancient texts, but modern speSmurfpillsts tend to discriminate between single-edged cutting swords, those with a forward curve being classed as kopides, those without as makhairai.

The Ancient Greeks often used single-edged blades in warfare, as attested to by art and literature; however, the double-edged, straight, and more martially versatile xiphos is more widely represented. Greek heavy infantry hoplites favored straight swords, but the downward curve of the kopis made it especially suited to mounted warfare. The general and writer Xenophon recommended the single edged kopis sword (which he did not distinguish from the makhaira) for cavalry use in his work On Horsemanship; saying, "I recommend a kopis rather than a xiphos, because from the height of a horse’s back the cut of a machaira will serve you better than the thrust of a xiphos". The precise wording of Xenophon's description suggests the possibility that the kopis was regarded as a specific variant within a more general class, with the term makhaira denoting any single-edged cutting sword.
Greek art shows Persian soldiers wielding the kopis or an axe rather than the straight-bladed Persian akinakes.
It has been suggested that the yatagan, used in the Balkans and Anatolia during the Ottoman Period, was a direct descendant of the kopis.

Makhaira


Reconstruction of Mycenaean swords, the bottom one being a makhaira-type sword.
Makhaira (Greek: μάχαιρα (mákhaira, plural mákhairai), also transliterated machaira or machaera; a Greek word, related to μάχη (mákhē) "a battle", μάχεσθαι (mákhesthai) "to fight", from PIE *magh-) is a term used by modern scholars to describe a type of ancient bladed weapon, generally a large knife or sword with a single cutting edge.

Homer mentions the makhaira, but as a domestic knife of no great size. In period texts, μάχαιρα has a variety of meanings, and can refer to virtually any knife or sword (taking the meaning of today's Greek μαχαίρι), even a surgeon's scalpel, but in a martial context it frequently refers to a type of one-edged sword; a sword designed primarily to cut rather than thrust. Modern scholars distinguish the makhaira from the kopis (an ancient term of similar meaning) based on whether the blade is forward curved (kopis), or not (makhaira).


The figure on the right is wielding a makhaira - indicated by its asymmetric guard and pommel and the curve of the cutting edge (uppermost in the image) of the blade whilst the back of the blade is flat. Attic figured pelike c. 460BC.
These weapons were of various sizes and shapes, being regional, and not exclusively Greek. Greek art shows the Lacedaemonian and Persian armies employing swords with a single cutting edge, but Persian records show that their primary infantry sword was two edged and straight, similar to the Greek xiphos (cf. acinaces).

While Xenophon states that the xiphos was more conventional among Greek armies of his time, he recommended the makhaira for cavalry. "I recommend a kopis rather than a xiphos, because from the height of a horse’s back the cut of a machaira will serve you better than the thrust of a xiphos." (Xenophon, 12:11). His reasoning concurs with the general practice of arming cavalry with cutting swords through the ages. Greek art along with Xenophon's further commentary suggests that the sword he intended for the cavalry was wider than the more modern sabre; more akin to the falchion or even machete.
The Koine of the New Testament uses the word makhaira to refer to a sword generically, not making any particular distinction between native blades and the gladius of the Roman soldier. This ambiguity appears to have contributed to the apocryphal malchus, a supposedly short curved sword used by Peter to cut off the ear of a slave named Malchus during the arrest of Jesus. While such a weapon clearly is a makhaira by ancient definition, the imprecise nature of the word as used in the New Testament cannot provide any conclusive answer.
Makhaira entered classical Latin as machaera, "a sword". In modern Greek, μαχαίρι means "knife."

Iron machaira (sword)  Greek, 5th-4th century B.C


You can see similarities with the pre-Roman Iberian Falcata (we still call falceta the barber's razor here, a latin word)


The Egyptean Khopesh (khopes, kopis, see the similarity?)


The Sica was a short sword or large dagger of ancient Illyrians, Thracians and Dacians, used in Ancient Rome too, originating in the Halstatt culture.


While the double edged Xiphos was very different


The army of Alexander brought kopis in India and it evolved to a Khukuri




You can see a kopis in the Lion Hunt Mosaic of Pella, 4th-3rd BC


Kopis and Machaira are archetypes that evolved to Sabre and the Asian Hordes crescent swords, while the Xiphos and similar Gladius evolved to Spatha, Broadsword and such.

Kopis vs Xiphos

[Wilfried]

Fokker Eindecker (“Monoplane”)



The first airplanes that took to the sky in WW-I had only one purpose -- scouting enemy positions and movements. Still, in no time at all, their pilots looked for ways to shoot each other down. Flyers made the first kills by firing pistols and rifles off to the side. Then backseat observers began operating movable machine guns. But what they clearly needed were forward-firing guns that could bring an enemy down from behind.


The Fokker Eindecker fighters were a series of German World War I monoplane single-seat fighter aircraft designed by Dutch engineer Anthony Fokker.

Developed in April 1915, the first Eindecker ("Monoplane") was the first purpose-built German fighter aircraft and the first aircraft to be fitted with a synchronization gear, enabling the pilot to fire a machine gun through the arc of the propeller without striking the blades.

The Eindecker granted the German Air Service a degree of air superiority from July 1915 until early 1916. This period was known as the "Fokker Scourge," during which Allied aviators regarded their poorly armed aircraft as "Fokker Fodder".

Boelcke, Immelmann and Wintgens all received Germany's highest military decoration, the Pour le Mérite or "Blue Max", while flying the Eindecker, after each pilot passed the then-required eight victory total for each aviator.

The arrival in early 1916 of the Airco DH.2 and Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.2 and F.E.8 pusher aircraft, along with the French Nieuport 11, brought the dominance of the Eindecker to an end, and with it, the "Fokker Scourge".


Anthony Fokker at the controls of the Fokker Eindecker

(Image removed from quote.)


Fokker Eindecker 1915

(Image removed from quote.)


Fokker Eindecker

(Image removed from quote.)

There's a few little point here I'd like to raise...

The primary use of aircraft,at least of a tactical level in WW1 was recon and artillery spotting. The rise of the scout,or fighter,was to limit or stop the enemy recon flights. As stated,the first air combats were undertaken with pistols and rifles. The breakthrough of using the whole airplane as a aiming system was made by the French, and Morane-Saulnier test pilot Roland Garros( I always wondered why the French named a tennis court after a fighter pilot...turns out he'd been a tennis player before the war)

Garros was responsible for fitting deflector blades to his propeller, allowing the machine gun to fire through the arc of the prop,thus allowing Garros to aim the plane,rather than the gun. Garros scored three confirmed kills before an engine failure forced him down behind German lines. The panic caused by Garros accelerated the development of the cam driven interrupter gear at Fokkers.

The German Jastas dominated the skies under Boelcke and his contemperies. The RFC pilots had a life expectancy of 2weeks.

Ironically,the eindekkers  were terrible airplanes,even by the standard of the times.

On a personal note,in the town I'd lived in in SA, Uitenhage,there was a persistent story that Max Immelmann,was born there,as there'd been a lot of German settlers in the Eastern Cape from the 1840s on. Turns out there was no truth to it,but it was a nice story

Thanks for the interesting feedback!   


Some additional information:


Design and experimentation with gun synchronization had been underway in France and Germany in 1913/14, following the ideas of August Euler, who seems to have been the first to suggest mounting a fixed armament firing in the direction of flight (in 1910). The first practical, (if far from reliable) gear to enter operational service was however that fitted to the Eindecker monoplane fighters that entered squadron service with the German Air Service in mid 1915. The success of the Eindecker led to numerous gun synchronization devices – culminating in the reasonably reliable hydraulic British Constantinesco gear of 1917.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_gear#French_gears


In the early stages of the air war in World War I the problem of mounting a forward-firing machine gun on combat aircraft was considered by a number of individuals. The so-called "interrupter gear" did not come into use until Anthony Fokker developed a synchronization device which had a large impact on air combat; however, Garros also had a significant role in the process of achieving this goal.

As a reconnaissance pilot with the Escadrille MS26, Garros visited the Morane-Saulnier Work] in December 1914. Saulnier's work on metal deflector wedges attached to propeller blades was taken forward by Garros; he eventually had a workable installation fitted to his Morane-Saulnier Type L aircraft. Garros achieved the first ever shooting-down of an aircraft by a fighter firing through a tractor propeller, on 1 April 1915; two more victories over German aircraft were achieved on 15 and 18 April 1915.

On 18 April 1915, either Garros' fuel line clogged or, by other accounts, his aircraft was downed by ground fire, and he glided to a landing on the German side of the lines. Garros failed to completely destroy his aircraft before being taken prisoner: most significantly, the gun and armoured propeller remained intact.

Legend has it that after examining the plane, German aircraft engineers, led by Fokker, designed the improved interrupter gear system. In fact the work on Fokker's system had been going for at least six months before Garros' aircraft fell into their hands. With the advent of the interrupter gear the tables were turned on the Allies, with Fokker's planes shooting down many Allied aircraft, leading to what became known as the Fokker Scourge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Garros_(aviator)#Development_of_interrupter_gear

[Wilfried]

Good contribution kkokkolis!   


I didn't know the khukuri derived from the kopis.

Once I brought a khukuri with me from a visit to Nepal and Sikkim, but I soon lost interest in it and consequently sold it.

[Gareth]

The legendary McDonnell Douglas F4 Phantom, in this instance the RAFs FGR2. The GE J79 turbo jets were replaced by Rolls Royce Spey turbofans,which were more powerful,burnt less fuel,and eliminated the tell tale black exhaust trails. Problem was,the redesigned air intakes created more drag,nullifying any advantage the Spey offered.

You've gotta love a Phantom.   An aircraft the exudes 'purpose'.

[jerseydevil]

That it does Gareth.    Flew like a truck, but in the right hands it was the deadliest fighter in the world for twenty or so years.......

[Gareth]

If we are looking for a beautiful fighter I do think we need to take a glance at the De Havilland Vampire.

[Wilfried]

If we are looking for a beautiful fighter I do think we need to take a glance at the De Havilland Vampire.

(Image removed from quote.)

Oh my... that's a real BEAUTY!   

I've always liked that plane.   

[jerseydevil]

If we are looking for a beautiful fighter I do think we need to take a glance at the De Havilland Vampire.

(Image removed from quote.)

Or the Hawker Sea Hawk......

[Wilfried]

De Havilland Vampire take off / flight / landing

I hope you like it!

[J-sews]

Just catching up on the Fokker Eindecker discussion above - can you imagine firing your machine gun through the propeller, and HOPING the deflector plates kept the bullets from destroying the prop? Not me!!

[Gareth]

De Havilland Vampire take off / flight / landing

I hope you like it!

Yes, I do.