Pioneer and Soldier blade and tool thicknesses...

[neillcurrie]

......have they changed, and if so, when?
There's lots of references on the interwebs to the Pioneer being the same as the Soldier, but with a keyring attachment, even mentions of the tools themselves being the same. However, I have a very limited selection of both, and a Farmer, and my 82 Soldier has thicker blades, and far thicker openers than anything more recent.

Also, when were Brass liners prevalent?

[daverobson]

If you'e including Wenger's, I have a 1980 Soldier with brass liner.
The tools are also significantly thicker than those on the Vic Pioneer & Wenger SI

[neillcurrie]

If you'e including Wenger's, I have a 1980 Soldier with brass liner.
The tools are also significantly thicker than those on the Vic Pioneer & Wenger SI

I was just comparing Vic's to Vic's.

[Syph007]

All the vics I have taken apart both old and new (soldiers and pioneers) have exactly the same size tools and thicknesses.  Same as wengers soldier too.

[Joe58]

I compared an older red pioneer with brass liners to a newer one with the new style shield and blank panel on the one side, so I know it's a newer production. Both were the same thickness when I put a caliper on them.

[neillcurrie]

Measured with a digital caliper just now. All Vics.

Soldier, no date.         Blade .108"   Openers  .105"
Soldier, 1982.             Blade .108"   Openers  .105"
Farmer, 2013.  Blade .108"   Openers .092"  Saw .070"
Pioneer, 2014.             Blade .108    Openers .089"

Interestingly, though the measured size of the Soldier blades are identical, there's no way the older blade will fit in the new liner gap, where the Tang enters. (feels like several thousandths of an inch difference, not close to zero).

There's definitely a big thickness difference between my Soldier openers and the Pioneer openers.

[lowtech]

This is eduacated guesswork at best, but this could be because the tools on the "civilian" models are ground smooth and polished while the ones on the Soldier are used "raw"?!

[Syph007]

Measured with a digital caliper just now. All Vics.

Soldier, no date.         Blade .108"   Openers  .105"
Soldier, 1982.             Blade .108"   Openers  .105"
Farmer, 2013.  Blade .108"   Openers .092"  Saw .070"
Pioneer, 2014.             Blade .108    Openers .089"

Interestingly, though the measured size of the Soldier blades are identical, there's no way the older blade will fit in the new liner gap, where the Tang enters. (feels like several thousandths of an inch difference, not close to zero).

There's definitely a big thickness difference between my Soldier openers and the Pioneer openers.

The only Vic soldier I have right here is a 73 and it has 0.105 blade layer and 0.090 opener layer.

[Joe58]

Measured with a digital caliper just now. All Vics.

Soldier, no date.         Blade .108"   Openers  .105"
Soldier, 1982.             Blade .108"   Openers  .105"
Farmer, 2013.  Blade .108"   Openers .092"  Saw .070"
Pioneer, 2014.             Blade .108    Openers .089"

Interestingly, though the measured size of the Soldier blades are identical, there's no way the older blade will fit in the new liner gap, where the Tang enters. (feels like several thousandths of an inch difference, not close to zero).

There's definitely a big thickness difference between my Soldier openers and the Pioneer openers.

The only Vic soldier I have right here is a 73 and it has 0.105 blade layer and 0.090 opener layer.

Ok Syph - way stupid question, but for feeble minded people like me, what are you referring to when you say opener layer?

Joe

[jazzbass]

Not a soldier expert, but I think the change was in 1993 (for Victorinox). 1961-1993 The openers in the Soldier were 2.65mm thick, and the caplifter had the wire stripper (sharpened inner edge) but not the bender. 1993-2008 the openers were 2.3mm think and the caplifter had the bender (notch at the bottom) but not the stripper. 2.5mm caplifters tend to be rough machined, where 1993+ tend to be polished.

The Pioneers got the 2.3mm tools from the beginning as far as I know. Early ones were machines and had the wire stripper like the 2.65mm Soldier tools, and all of the had the notch. They lost the wire stripper sometime before 1985, not sure when though. 

[jazzbass]

Follow up - here's a picture I took of the cap lifters of four different alox knives:



In order, L-R:
1. Caplifter from 1993 Soldier. 2.65mm, wire stripper, machined, no bender notch
2. Caplifter from 1965 Pioneer. 2.3mm, wire stripper, machined, bender notch
3. Caplifter from 1985 Pioneer. 2.3mm, no wire stripper, machined, bender notch
4. Caplifter from 1998 Soldier. 2.3mm, no wire stripper, polished, bender notch

[Caranthanus]

Measured with a digital caliper just now. All Vics.

Soldier, no date.         Blade .108"   Openers  .105"
Soldier, 1982.             Blade .108"   Openers  .105"
Farmer, 2013.  Blade .108"   Openers .092"  Saw .070"
Pioneer, 2014.             Blade .108    Openers .089"

Interestingly, though the measured size of the Soldier blades are identical, there's no way the older blade will fit in the new liner gap, where the Tang enters. (feels like several thousandths of an inch difference, not close to zero).

There's definitely a big thickness difference between my Soldier openers and the Pioneer openers.

The only Vic soldier I have right here is a 73 and it has 0.105 blade layer and 0.090 opener layer.

Ok Syph - way stupid question, but for feeble minded people like me, what are you referring to when you say opener layer?

Joe

The "opener layer" would be the layer where the "openers" (i.e. bottle opener & can opener) are layed.

"openers layer"

both layers

 

[Syph007]

Follow up - here's a picture I took of the cap lifters of four different alox knives:

(Image removed from quote.)

In order, L-R:
1. Caplifter from 1993 Soldier. 2.65mm, wire stripper, machined, no bender notch
2. Caplifter from 1965 Pioneer. 2.3mm, wire stripper, machined, bender notch
3. Caplifter from 1985 Pioneer. 2.3mm, no wire stripper, machined, bender notch
4. Caplifter from 1998 Soldier. 2.3mm, no wire stripper, polished, bender notch

Thats fascinating.  Just when you think you know it all, bam new info.  Now Id love to track down one with the wider opener layer.  I wonder if they did that so they only had to make one type of backspring, as then it would be the same thickness as the blade layer.

[GigaHz]

I have an 89 soldier with 2.65mm openers and 2.75mm main blade.

[Jmora]

thought I might as well reactivate this thread, as it is exactly on point with a question I have: is the opener layer on the old Vic soldiers supposed to be tapered? I have a soldier from 1963 and 1981, and they both have a thicker caplifter than can opener, with the spring tapered appropriately, this is not the case for an old pioneer with brushed finish or a new pioneer.

from top to bottom 63 soldier, 81 soldier, old pioneer, new pioneer (mod)

[sak60]

From left to right 2014 pioneer, 94 Vic, 78 Wenger

[Jmora]

thanks for the photos, can't see the tapering on the Wenger, but maybe the angle is deceiving.