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Vintage SAK Owners Club 74103

No Life Club Posts: 4,085 join The American Legion Family - since 1919
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #480 on: June 05, 2017, 05:44:13 AM »
Finally finished my collection of 84mm metal file SAKs with the addition of a small Mountaineer (top right).  Has issues with over-sharpening of the blades but as my dear old mom used to say, "beggars can't be choosers".  It will be a good place holder until (or is that "if") a better example comes along.  It is from the 70's.

The others are the small Grand Prix (top left), also from the 70's, small Master Craftsman (bottom left) from the 70's and small Master Craftsman (bottom right) from the 60's.        :cheers:
Really nice collection! Congrats!

Now you need 1950s Master Craftsman small and 1980s Grand Prix small  :cheers:
Very nice. Afraid to touch my "Spartan " it's  at least 70 yoa.....and I used it as a beater as a kid. OMG (she is safe now)

join KNIFE RIGHTS
No Life Club Posts: 1,265
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #481 on: July 11, 2017, 11:58:13 PM »
I'm a big fan of the vintage look and I'm planning a mod that will hopefully have a little of the best of old and new but I got stuck a little on the bail.

How big are the "heads" of the bail (where the rivet goes through) and what's the diameter of the rod? With all these nice vintage SAKs around maybe someone could be so kind as to measure for me?
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 3,645
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #482 on: July 12, 2017, 09:04:23 AM »
Hi F2

I made a bail for an old British/Indian Army Knife last weekend
I am hoping to post a mod guide on this sometime - I took the photos etc etc

Briefly - The bail pin/rivet diameter for my BAK is the same size as a SAK - 2.5mm
And the bail itself is going to be about 2.5mm - So as you say .....
Challenge: How do I get the pin through the brass of the same thickness ???
My solution: …. was to get some 3.2mm brass rod - Then thin the middle section to 2.5, then flatten the ends so that they are wide enough to have a 2.5mm hole drilled through them, then bend to make the bail!!
Simples !! .......... Not :pok:
No Life Club Posts: 1,265
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #483 on: July 12, 2017, 05:16:25 PM »
Hi F2

I made a bail for an old British/Indian Army Knife last weekend
I am hoping to post a mod guide on this sometime - I took the photos etc etc

Briefly - The bail pin/rivet diameter for my BAK is the same size as a SAK - 2.5mm
And the bail itself is going to be about 2.5mm - So as you say .....
Challenge: How do I get the pin through the brass of the same thickness ???
My solution: …. was to get some 3.2mm brass rod - Then thin the middle section to 2.5, then flatten the ends so that they are wide enough to have a 2.5mm hole drilled through them, then bend to make the bail!!
Simples !! .......... Not :pok:

That's basically the same way I'm doing it except I started with a 4 mm rod. Rigging the rod up in a drill press to use as a lathe. Right now I have a four millimeter sphere at one end that I intend to flatten once the second is done. It just felt like 4 mm would look a bit small but it's hard to say until I'm closer to finishing it.
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 3,645
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #484 on: July 12, 2017, 11:55:06 PM »
 8) Great minds think alike  :cheers:

Yep I made a 'lathe' too - 'cept I don't have a press - So had to clamp the hand drill then use that

I am pretty sure it was 3.2mm. The thinning took for ever  >:(

I was also worried it would be too thin for the attachment point - but it worked fine

One important tip:
Heat the brass before you flatten it. My first attempt failed, as the brass split on the flattening after several hits - When heated it was fine.

EDIT: Here is how it turned out - I was pretty happy
More to be revealed later !!
96.48 kB | 249x171
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 01:00:58 AM by Huntsman »
No Life Club Posts: 1,265
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #485 on: July 13, 2017, 01:54:08 PM »
8) Great minds think alike  :cheers:

Yep I made a 'lathe' too - 'cept I don't have a press - So had to clamp the hand drill then use that

I am pretty sure it was 3.2mm. The thinning took for ever  >:(

I was also worried it would be too thin for the attachment point - but it worked fine

One important tip:
Heat the brass before you flatten it. My first attempt failed, as the brass split on the flattening after several hits - When heated it was fine.

EDIT: Here is how it turned out - I was pretty happy
More to be revealed later !!

Hmm, then it seems like our approaches were less similar than I thought, here's how I've been working. I have the second "head" left but I'm getting there. My approach will require another step where I plan on flattening the bulbs against a sander before drilling.

Hero Member Posts: 827
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #486 on: August 05, 2017, 09:46:51 AM »
Elinox 1137U and 1237U from 1960s-early 1970s. Not very common Phillips screwdriver without file. Who knows when they changed the ELINOX  stamp from big to small size?
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #487 on: August 05, 2017, 10:30:46 AM »
I believe it coincides with the change in the other stamp with at 74. 

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #488 on: August 08, 2017, 05:36:57 PM »
 :salute:

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,269 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #489 on: August 08, 2017, 06:03:02 PM »
8) Great minds think alike  :cheers:

Yep I made a 'lathe' too - 'cept I don't have a press - So had to clamp the hand drill then use that

I am pretty sure it was 3.2mm. The thinning took for ever  >:(

I was also worried it would be too thin for the attachment point - but it worked fine

One important tip:
Heat the brass before you flatten it. My first attempt failed, as the brass split on the flattening after several hits - When heated it was fine.

EDIT: Here is how it turned out - I was pretty happy
More to be revealed later !!

Hmm, then it seems like our approaches were less similar than I thought, here's how I've been working. I have the second "head" left but I'm getting there. My approach will require another step where I plan on flattening the bulbs against a sander before drilling.

(Image removed from quote.)

Wouldn't it be easier to just cut a piece of brass rod, bend it in half and then bend the two extremities and insert them in the knife?...

 :think: :think:

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Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

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No Life Club Posts: 1,265
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #490 on: August 08, 2017, 10:20:13 PM »
8) Great minds think alike  :cheers:

Yep I made a 'lathe' too - 'cept I don't have a press - So had to clamp the hand drill then use that

I am pretty sure it was 3.2mm. The thinning took for ever  >:(

I was also worried it would be too thin for the attachment point - but it worked fine

One important tip:
Heat the brass before you flatten it. My first attempt failed, as the brass split on the flattening after several hits - When heated it was fine.

EDIT: Here is how it turned out - I was pretty happy
More to be revealed later !!

Hmm, then it seems like our approaches were less similar than I thought, here's how I've been working. I have the second "head" left but I'm getting there. My approach will require another step where I plan on flattening the bulbs against a sander before drilling.

(Image removed from quote.)

Wouldn't it be easier to just cut a piece of brass rod, bend it in half and then bend the two extremities and insert them in the knife?...

 :think: :think:

Like how it is done on the Soldiers with bail? Probably would, but I'm going for the genuine look with the shaped part where the bail is riveted on (see El Corkscrews picture above). I also plan on shaping the handle closer to how the 1890 Model Soldier looks as well as adding brass bolsters and a saber-point small blade from a Delemont edition tool.
No Life Club Posts: 4,085 join The American Legion Family - since 1919
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #491 on: August 09, 2017, 01:55:38 AM »
Hi F2

I made a bail for an old British/Indian Army Knife last weekend
I am hoping to post a mod guide on this sometime - I took the photos etc etc

Briefly - The bail pin/rivet diameter for my BAK is the same size as a SAK - 2.5mm
And the bail itself is going to be about 2.5mm - So as you say .....
Challenge: How do I get the pin through the brass of the same thickness ???
My solution: …. was to get some 3.2mm brass rod - Then thin the middle section to 2.5, then flatten the ends so that they are wide enough to have a 2.5mm hole drilled through them, then bend to make the bail!!
Simples !! .......... Not :pok:

Hi guys, I neef a bale for a pocket knife, the U shape that "presses" in to eitjer side, no fancy work except the bending to shape.  Any hints ? Thank you
We now return to VSAKOC. already in progress...

join KNIFE RIGHTS
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 3,645
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #492 on: August 09, 2017, 01:27:18 PM »
Wouldn't it be easier to just cut a piece of brass rod, bend it in half and then bend the two extremities and insert them in the knife?...
No not possible - As the pin that holds the bail on is the rivet on which the tools pivot, and holds the knife together  :twak:
..... Unless you have a hollow rivet - a la Wenger Soldier - as 42 mentions !!
And for these old SAKs - that is not authentic  :o

Hi guys, I neef a bale for a pocket knife, the U shape that "presses" in to eitjer side, no fancy work except the bending to shape.  Any hints ? Thank you
We now return to VSAKOC. already in progress...
Some hints above in my and 42's posts ???
I hope to make a full step by step guide on how I did it - But it may take some time
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #493 on: August 09, 2017, 05:15:44 PM »
Elinox 1137U and 1237U from 1960s-early 1970s. Not very common Phillips screwdriver without file. Who knows when they changed the ELINOX  stamp from big to small size?

Got 2 exactly like that but the Super Tinker is Hoffritz w/ regular cross.

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Hero Member Posts: 827
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #494 on: August 09, 2017, 05:19:56 PM »
Elinox 1137U and 1237U from 1960s-early 1970s. Not very common Phillips screwdriver without file. Who knows when they changed the ELINOX  stamp from big to small size?

Got 2 exactly like that but the Super Tinker is Hoffritz w/ regular cross.
Nice! Do you have pictures?


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No Life Club Posts: 1,265
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #495 on: August 09, 2017, 05:31:46 PM »
Hi F2

I made a bail for an old British/Indian Army Knife last weekend
I am hoping to post a mod guide on this sometime - I took the photos etc etc

Briefly - The bail pin/rivet diameter for my BAK is the same size as a SAK - 2.5mm
And the bail itself is going to be about 2.5mm - So as you say .....
Challenge: How do I get the pin through the brass of the same thickness ???
My solution: …. was to get some 3.2mm brass rod - Then thin the middle section to 2.5, then flatten the ends so that they are wide enough to have a 2.5mm hole drilled through them, then bend to make the bail!!
Simples !! .......... Not :pok:

Hi guys, I neef a bale for a pocket knife, the U shape that "presses" in to eitjer side, no fancy work except the bending to shape.  Any hints ? Thank you
We now return to VSAKOC. already in progress...

If it is for a model with holes in the scales to fit a bail it should work. My best recommendation would be to start with the 90° bends, give them a quarter of an inch or so (5 mm) to have something to hold on to, a vice would be preferred but a hole drilled in a decently hard wood should work too. Bend the curve around some sort of mandrel, if that's unavailable I would try to make a small jig from some wood. Cut to length last.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #496 on: August 09, 2017, 05:37:58 PM »
Elinox 1137U and 1237U from 1960s-early 1970s. Not very common Phillips screwdriver without file. Who knows when they changed the ELINOX  stamp from big to small size?

Got 2 exactly like that but the Super Tinker is Hoffritz w/ regular cross.
Nice! Do you have pictures?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oh Man, I just notice the screwdriver doesn't have a file. Seems to be rare indeed.  I had never seen a bail without the file. :o  I think that must be one of the very last Bails before the transition in 68. Maybe a 69...  But I guess they kept selling rach piece until they ran out, into the early 70s.

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
No Life Club Posts: 1,373
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #497 on: August 09, 2017, 05:47:44 PM »
Oh Man, I just notice the screwdriver doesn't have a file. Seems to be rare indeed.  I had never seen a bail without the file. :o  I think that must be one of the very last Bails before the transition in 68. Maybe a 69...  But I guess they kept selling rach piece until they ran out, into the early 70s.

Phillips screwdrivers without files are the norm for Elinox line knives from their inception in 1957 until discontinuation in the mid 1970s. Early Elinox Phillips drivers up until c. 1970 were simply unfinished versions of the Victoria line tools where they skipped the file grinding and polishing step. Some Elinox models from the 1960s can be found with the Victoria Phillips (with file), but these tend to be the exception not the norm (probably < 10%). Around 1970 Victorinox drops the Phillips file from almost all models - both Victoria and Elinox - with the notable exception of the Fisherman. Champions, Craftsmans, Artisans, etc, all get a solid, square, fully polished, file-less Phillips from about 1970-1974, at which point the can-key slot is introduced into the square Phillips. This same time Elinox knives begin to get fully polished tools as well so they get the same Phillips as the Victoria knives. This stays the same until c. 1983 when the round, can-key slotted Phillips is introduced.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 05:52:57 PM by jazzbass »
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #498 on: August 09, 2017, 05:51:44 PM »
great information! but I thought the round can key phillips showed up closer to 80?? :cheers:

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
No Life Club Posts: 1,373
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #499 on: August 09, 2017, 05:54:39 PM »
great information! but I thought the round can key phillips showed up closer to 80?? :cheers:

I said 85 originally but should have said c 83. Definitely after 1980 by a couple years.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #500 on: August 09, 2017, 05:56:07 PM »
I mostly collect Corkscrews and had not really considered the differences between the Elinox and Victoria line that you pointed out.  I had notice more of these differences with the economy lines on the Corkscrews that came later. So thank you  :tu: :cheers:

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Hero Member Posts: 827
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #501 on: August 09, 2017, 06:15:53 PM »
Oh Man, I just notice the screwdriver doesn't have a file. Seems to be rare indeed.  I had never seen a bail without the file. :o  I think that must be one of the very last Bails before the transition in 68. Maybe a 69...  But I guess they kept selling rach piece until they ran out, into the early 70s.

Phillips screwdrivers without files are the norm for Elinox line knives from their inception in 1957 until discontinuation in the mid 1970s. Early Elinox Phillips drivers up until c. 1970 were simply unfinished versions of the Victoria line tools where they skipped the file grinding and polishing step. Some Elinox models from the 1960s can be found with the Victoria Phillips (with file), but these tend to be the exception not the norm (probably < 10%). Around 1970 Victorinox drops the Phillips file from almost all models - both Victoria and Elinox - with the notable exception of the Fisherman. Champions, Craftsmans, Artisans, etc, all get a solid, square, fully polished, file-less Phillips from about 1970-1974, at which point the can-key slot is introduced into the square Phillips. This same time Elinox knives begin to get fully polished tools as well so they get the same Phillips as the Victoria knives. This stays the same until c. 1983 when the round, can-key slotted Phillips is introduced.
Great! Thank you JAZZBASS. Here is another file-less Phillips on Victoria Champion from early 1970s


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Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #502 on: August 09, 2017, 06:30:44 PM »
Oh Man, I just notice the screwdriver doesn't have a file. Seems to be rare indeed.  I had never seen a bail without the file. :o  I think that must be one of the very last Bails before the transition in 68. Maybe a 69...  But I guess they kept selling rach piece until they ran out, into the early 70s.

Phillips screwdrivers without files are the norm for Elinox line knives from their inception in 1957 until discontinuation in the mid 1970s. Early Elinox Phillips drivers up until c. 1970 were simply unfinished versions of the Victoria line tools where they skipped the file grinding and polishing step. Some Elinox models from the 1960s can be found with the Victoria Phillips (with file), but these tend to be the exception not the norm (probably < 10%). Around 1970 Victorinox drops the Phillips file from almost all models - both Victoria and Elinox - with the notable exception of the Fisherman. Champions, Craftsmans, Artisans, etc, all get a solid, square, fully polished, file-less Phillips from about 1970-1974, at which point the can-key slot is introduced into the square Phillips. This same time Elinox knives begin to get fully polished tools as well so they get the same Phillips as the Victoria knives. This stays the same until c. 1983 when the round, can-key slotted Phillips is introduced.
Great! Thank you JAZZBASS. Here is another file-less Phillips on Victoria Champion from early 1970s(Image removed from quote.)


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Sweet knife! :like: But wouldn't that be a Craftsman?

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Hero Member Posts: 827
Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #503 on: August 09, 2017, 06:47:27 PM »
Thank you El Corkscrew! This one is c.1972-1973 Champion, very close to 1970s Craftsman but with long nail file.


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« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 06:51:39 PM by JNOXID »
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #504 on: August 09, 2017, 07:21:18 PM »
Ah so! I've got a couple champion C's, one NIB.  I really want to find a pre 61 climber and 60's standard with bail and scale tools (does it exist?)

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,138
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #505 on: August 09, 2017, 07:47:30 PM »
Thank you El Corkscrew! This one is c.1972-1973 Champion, very close to 1970s Craftsman but with long nail file.(Image removed from quote.)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 :like:
No Life Club Posts: 4,085 join The American Legion Family - since 1919
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #506 on: August 10, 2017, 03:51:51 AM »
Wouldn't it be easier to just cut a piece of brass rod, bend it in half and then bend the two extremities and insert them in the knife?...
No not possible - As the pin that holds the bail on is the rivet on which the tools pivot, and holds the knife together  :twak:
..... Unless you have a hollow rivet - a la Wenger Soldier - as 42 mentions !!
And for these old SAKs - that is not authentic  :o

Hi guys, I neef a bale for a pocket knife, the U shape that "presses" in to eitjer side, no fancy work except the bending to shape.  Any hints ? Thank you
We now return to VSAKOC. already in progress...
Some hints above in my and 42's posts ???
I hope to make a full step by step guide on how I did it - But it may take some time
Thanks, sorry bout the phone typos -

join KNIFE RIGHTS
Hero Member Posts: 827
Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #507 on: August 10, 2017, 04:03:37 PM »
Ah so! I've got a couple champion C's, one NIB.  I really want to find a pre 61 climber and 60's standard with bail and scale tools (does it exist?)
I have no 60s Standard with scale tools but here are some old "Climbers". Mod.235, 235aU, 235kaU and 245kaU  :salute:



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« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 04:08:14 PM by JNOXID »
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,138
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #508 on: August 10, 2017, 10:43:53 PM »
Ah so! I've got a couple champion C's, one NIB.  I really want to find a pre 61 climber and 60's standard with bail and scale tools (does it exist?)
I have no 60s Standard with scale tools but here are some old "Climbers". Mod.235, 235aU, 235kaU and 245kaU  :salute:
(Image removed from quote.)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 :like: :tu: :tu:
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,154
Re: Vintage SAK Owners Club
« Reply #509 on: August 11, 2017, 12:34:36 AM »
Ah so! I've got a couple champion C's, one NIB.  I really want to find a pre 61 climber and 60's standard with bail and scale tools (does it exist?)
I have no 60s Standard with scale tools but here are some old "Climbers". Mod.235, 235aU, 235kaU and 245kaU  :salute:
(Image removed from quote.)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Just beautiful  :like:

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain

 

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