Leatherman Wave Quality Control

[Miknitro]

My wave also has that, it is designed that way so that the tool doesn't open in your pocket. My wave is also scratched on the pliers. I absolutley hate leatherman's way they designed their way to keep the tools open and closed. It is 100% garuanteed that it will not last 25 years. On al my leatherman tools it wore out in a year, some tools wore out in a month others in half a year. Their is no engineering behind it. It is just designed on luck or something. On some tools it works good, on others it never worked good.
They could learn something from victorinox who uses springs and has notches in the plier so it locks open and closed.

No offence but i think it is funny that there are treads here where they show you how you can adjust your new tool with hammers, screwdrivers and torx bits.
Leatherman is an excellent brand and designes great stuff, and every time my new tool is deliverd to my house my excitement is killed because i have to adjust it again and the standard problems occur again.

If you buy a new Mercedes you don't have to adjust the doors so that they close properly or are hard to open, even on the cheapest car you don't have to do that.

A new product should function good from the factory, no work needed. (you pay for it)

I myself kind of agree here. I can't give Leatherman as a present currently. Especially if recipient has experienced my tooling. They are rough, gritty an smooth as gravel out of the box. Not a pleasant experience for a layman of MTs.
Vic's an others beat Leatherman out of the box experience wise. Through once tuned up a bit an put on equal ground via a decently lubed break in, they are no less then their peers in usage an experience.

 One thing I mentioned they can be adjusted easier then hammering a rivet, as once they're too tight it's being sent in to OEM.
Plier head rubbing is not a tension retention adjustment, it is a poorly aligned fit an finish. I've tweaked a Wave so no interference an it has no slop what so ever. Thus a myth of sorts.

Now once a LT Wave is prepped,.. I'd put it and a Gerber an Vic in a pillow case an tossed in dryer on cool for a week an I bet Vic needs OEM services beyond end user capability. Gerber would be a warranty call an Leatherman would need it's tools tweaked to close again, but could be done by end user returning tool to service asap.
Yes crazy my theory is and a long shot but is how I see end result.
But prior to being broken in an adjusted, LT is a iffy experience out of box in my findings agreed. All others seem to be better out of box. Except one Gerber Clutch, it broke shortly after being released from box.
Jmtc, flamesuit on.

Yeah true, if you give a non mt person a leatherman he would probably put it in the drawer because he can't open some of the tools or it is almost impossible to do.
Probably the reason why so many companies give saks as a present. (And the price)

I am always glad the fist two weeks with my new leatherman are over. After that the fun can begin.

Is not that you can't use any part of the tooling...its that every action is gritty an unlubed.
At least out of my findings, every option worked, but was a test of my nerves, smooth action is not an option.

[anditsgone]

My wave also has that, it is designed that way so that the tool doesn't open in your pocket. My wave is also scratched on the pliers. I absolutley hate leatherman's way they designed their way to keep the tools open and closed. It is 100% garuanteed that it will not last 25 years. On al my leatherman tools it wore out in a year, some tools wore out in a month others in half a year. Their is no engineering behind it. It is just designed on luck or something. On some tools it works good, on others it never worked good.
They could learn something from victorinox who uses springs and has notches in the plier so it locks open and closed.

No offence but i think it is funny that there are treads here where they show you how you can adjust your new tool with hammers, screwdrivers and torx bits.
Leatherman is an excellent brand and designes great stuff, and every time my new tool is deliverd to my house my excitement is killed because i have to adjust it again and the standard problems occur again.

If you buy a new Mercedes you don't have to adjust the doors so that they close properly or are hard to open, even on the cheapest car you don't have to do that.

A new product should function good from the factory, no work needed. (you pay for it)

I myself kind of agree here. I can't give Leatherman as a present currently. Especially if recipient has experienced my tooling. They are rough, gritty an smooth as gravel out of the box. Not a pleasant experience for a layman of MTs.
Vic's an others beat Leatherman out of the box experience wise. Through once tuned up a bit an put on equal ground via a decently lubed break in, they are no less then their peers in usage an experience.

 One thing I mentioned they can be adjusted easier then hammering a rivet, as once they're too tight it's being sent in to OEM.
Plier head rubbing is not a tension retention adjustment, it is a poorly aligned fit an finish. I've tweaked a Wave so no interference an it has no slop what so ever. Thus a myth of sorts.

Now once a LT Wave is prepped,.. I'd put it and a Gerber an Vic in a pillow case an tossed in dryer on cool for a week an I bet Vic needs OEM services beyond end user capability. Gerber would be a warranty call an Leatherman would need it's tools tweaked to close again, but could be done by end user returning tool to service asap.
Yes crazy my theory is and a long shot but is how I see end result.
But prior to being broken in an adjusted, LT is a iffy experience out of box in my findings agreed. All others seem to be better out of box. Except one Gerber Clutch, it broke shortly after being released from box.
Jmtc, flamesuit on.

Yeah true, if you give a non mt person a leatherman he would probably put it in the drawer because he can't open some of the tools or it is almost impossible to do.
Probably the reason why so many companies give saks as a present. (And the price)

I am always glad the fist two weeks with my new leatherman are over. After that the fun can begin.

Is not that you can't use any part of the tooling...its that every action is gritty an unlubed.
At least out of my findings, every option worked, but was a test of my nerves, smooth action is not an option.

On my new wave i could not get the flat head screw driver out with the use of another MT plier.
A person who has no technical skills this would probably be a no goer.
But i grabbed my security torx and loosend it one turn. PROBLEM SOLVED.
But on the other hand, you shouldn't have to do that on a new product.

I don't get why not one leatherman is the same, it is mass production. They all should be the same.

If a production line is set correctly it can pump out thousands of flawless products for years.

But with leatherman everyone has their own problem. Rattling back locks, poor rivits for the springs, file only grinded half way etc.
..

[Miknitro]

My wave also has that, it is designed that way so that the tool doesn't open in your pocket. My wave is also scratched on the pliers. I absolutley hate leatherman's way they designed their way to keep the tools open and closed. It is 100% garuanteed that it will not last 25 years. On al my leatherman tools it wore out in a year, some tools wore out in a month others in half a year. Their is no engineering behind it. It is just designed on luck or something. On some tools it works good, on others it never worked good.
They could learn something from victorinox who uses springs and has notches in the plier so it locks open and closed.

No offence but i think it is funny that there are treads here where they show you how you can adjust your new tool with hammers, screwdrivers and torx bits.
Leatherman is an excellent brand and designes great stuff, and every time my new tool is deliverd to my house my excitement is killed because i have to adjust it again and the standard problems occur again.

If you buy a new Mercedes you don't have to adjust the doors so that they close properly or are hard to open, even on the cheapest car you don't have to do that.

A new product should function good from the factory, no work needed. (you pay for it)

I myself kind of agree here. I can't give Leatherman as a present currently. Especially if recipient has experienced my tooling. They are rough, gritty an smooth as gravel out of the box. Not a pleasant experience for a layman of MTs.
Vic's an others beat Leatherman out of the box experience wise. Through once tuned up a bit an put on equal ground via a decently lubed break in, they are no less then their peers in usage an experience.

 One thing I mentioned they can be adjusted easier then hammering a rivet, as once they're too tight it's being sent in to OEM.
Plier head rubbing is not a tension retention adjustment, it is a poorly aligned fit an finish. I've tweaked a Wave so no interference an it has no slop what so ever. Thus a myth of sorts.

Now once a LT Wave is prepped,.. I'd put it and a Gerber an Vic in a pillow case an tossed in dryer on cool for a week an I bet Vic needs OEM services beyond end user capability. Gerber would be a warranty call an Leatherman would need it's tools tweaked to close again, but could be done by end user returning tool to service asap.
Yes crazy my theory is and a long shot but is how I see end result.
But prior to being broken in an adjusted, LT is a iffy experience out of box in my findings agreed. All others seem to be better out of box. Except one Gerber Clutch, it broke shortly after being released from box.
Jmtc, flamesuit on.

Yeah true, if you give a non mt person a leatherman he would probably put it in the drawer because he can't open some of the tools or it is almost impossible to do.
Probably the reason why so many companies give saks as a present. (And the price)

I am always glad the fist two weeks with my new leatherman are over. After that the fun can begin.

Is not that you can't use any part of the tooling...its that every action is gritty an unlubed.
At least out of my findings, every option worked, but was a test of my nerves, smooth action is not an option.

On my new wave i could not get the flat head screw driver out with the use of another MT plier.
A person who has no technical skills this would probably be a no goer.
But i grabbed my security torx and loosend it one turn. PROBLEM SOLVED.
But on the other hand, you shouldn't have to do that on a new product.

I don't get why not one leatherman is the same, it is mass production. They all should be the same.

If a production line is set correctly it can pump out thousands of flawless products for years.

But with leatherman everyone has their own problem. Rattling back locks, poor rivits for the springs, file only grinded half way etc.
..

Agreed.
It's their downfall to a good name.

[anditsgone]

My wave also has that, it is designed that way so that the tool doesn't open in your pocket. My wave is also scratched on the pliers. I absolutley hate leatherman's way they designed their way to keep the tools open and closed. It is 100% garuanteed that it will not last 25 years. On al my leatherman tools it wore out in a year, some tools wore out in a month others in half a year. Their is no engineering behind it. It is just designed on luck or something. On some tools it works good, on others it never worked good.
They could learn something from victorinox who uses springs and has notches in the plier so it locks open and closed.

No offence but i think it is funny that there are treads here where they show you how you can adjust your new tool with hammers, screwdrivers and torx bits.
Leatherman is an excellent brand and designes great stuff, and every time my new tool is deliverd to my house my excitement is killed because i have to adjust it again and the standard problems occur again.

If you buy a new Mercedes you don't have to adjust the doors so that they close properly or are hard to open, even on the cheapest car you don't have to do that.

A new product should function good from the factory, no work needed. (you pay for it)

I myself kind of agree here. I can't give Leatherman as a present currently. Especially if recipient has experienced my tooling. They are rough, gritty an smooth as gravel out of the box. Not a pleasant experience for a layman of MTs.
Vic's an others beat Leatherman out of the box experience wise. Through once tuned up a bit an put on equal ground via a decently lubed break in, they are no less then their peers in usage an experience.

 One thing I mentioned they can be adjusted easier then hammering a rivet, as once they're too tight it's being sent in to OEM.
Plier head rubbing is not a tension retention adjustment, it is a poorly aligned fit an finish. I've tweaked a Wave so no interference an it has no slop what so ever. Thus a myth of sorts.

Now once a LT Wave is prepped,.. I'd put it and a Gerber an Vic in a pillow case an tossed in dryer on cool for a week an I bet Vic needs OEM services beyond end user capability. Gerber would be a warranty call an Leatherman would need it's tools tweaked to close again, but could be done by end user returning tool to service asap.
Yes crazy my theory is and a long shot but is how I see end result.
But prior to being broken in an adjusted, LT is a iffy experience out of box in my findings agreed. All others seem to be better out of box. Except one Gerber Clutch, it broke shortly after being released from box.
Jmtc, flamesuit on.

Yeah true, if you give a non mt person a leatherman he would probably put it in the drawer because he can't open some of the tools or it is almost impossible to do.
Probably the reason why so many companies give saks as a present. (And the price)

I am always glad the fist two weeks with my new leatherman are over. After that the fun can begin.

Is not that you can't use any part of the tooling...its that every action is gritty an unlubed.
At least out of my findings, every option worked, but was a test of my nerves, smooth action is not an option.

On my new wave i could not get the flat head screw driver out with the use of another MT plier.
A person who has no technical skills this would probably be a no goer.
But i grabbed my security torx and loosend it one turn. PROBLEM SOLVED.
But on the other hand, you shouldn't have to do that on a new product.

I don't get why not one leatherman is the same, it is mass production. They all should be the same.

If a production line is set correctly it can pump out thousands of flawless products for years.

But with leatherman everyone has their own problem. Rattling back locks, poor rivits for the springs, file only grinded half way etc.
..

Agreed.
It's their downfall to a good name.

I am no production line expert, but maybe it is time for new robots that make and assemble the tools after 30 years

Toyota pumps out millions of cars with thousands of parts and they are all prefect.

Leatherman wave is now 10 years old and we still encounter problems. I think their production line /plant isn't as high tec as it should be.

We will probably never know, but it sure is a blemish for such a fine brand.

(How impressive it is that manufacturers such as Apple make millions of iPhones in less than a year and all the products are flawless.

[pingu]

I tend to do a "Miknitro" when I can solve a problem more cheaply than returning to LM and possibly getting another problem back.  I am a little more concerned about what appears to be poor design which gets to production.

Lets start with Style, OK "retired" now but still common in retail.  A product orientated to nail care which destroyed nails  .  The blade nail nick too small and too close to the pivot when there was access closer to the tip and, heck have you seen the size of the Dime nail nick.  The nail-file nail nick filled with grit  .  The scissors nail nick virtually impossible to access.

Juice pliers susceptible to jamming between the drivers.  Years after first production quietly addressed in the 2014 range by a longer driver for the jaw to ride up.  But why so long?

The lanyard loop on the flagship Wave which 550 can't pass  .

And I have to agree with anditsgone that the plier closed retention springs appear flimsy compared with the Spirit spring piece.  (which incidently is quite similar to the Wingman tool locking spring).

And yet I/we continue to chose LM.  Possibly Miknitro hits the nail on the head with the "we can fix a lot of LM issues if we want to or return if we don't want to" although I also sometimes return to Amazon no questions asked product which doesn't meet my 100%.  Puzzled what happens to the returns  .

Can we talk about Spirit uneven handles?  .   No, this is a LM quality thread and the uneven handles was a "cannot be avoided" production issue  .

[Miknitro]

Do a Miknitro huh ☺
That made me chuckle, thanks.

[pingu]

Do a Miknitro huh ☺
That made me chuckle, thanks.

I take it I got you right 

[Aloha]

@ Andi

listen at about 2:25.  It's this step that results in each tool being "different".  I'd rather a tool be "adjustable" so I can take matters to keep the tool working in the field.




SORRY EDIT time at 1:30

[Miknitro]

@ Andi

listen at about 2:25.  It's this step that results in each tool being "different".  I'd rather a tool be "adjustable" so I can take matters to keep the tool working in the field.

In my last year's of working as a mechanic, the motto R&R went from remove and repair, to remove an replace.

Junk the old, in with the new. No field service, no interest in repair, loss of skill, theory and ability through no serviceable parts as best as OEM try to make happen.

Rivets, go against all that I am as a man. I lean to keep towards working and fixing issues, instead of it all stops here during a failure.
Others may not understand these days, old school building techniques were fine when the industrial revolution hasn't occurred for most of the world, but the most have moved on from it, now are returning to it, the new R&R.

[AimlessWanderer]

@ Andi

listen at about 2:25.  It's this step that results in each tool being "different".  I'd rather a tool be "adjustable" so I can take matters to keep the tool working in the field.

In my last year's of working as a mechanic, the motto R&R went from remove and repair, to remove an replace.

Junk the old, in with the new. No field service, no interest in repair, loss of skill, theory and ability through no serviceable parts as best as OEM try to make happen.

Rivets, go against all that I am as a man. I lean to keep towards working and fixing issues, instead of it all stops here during a failure.
Others may not understand these days, old school building techniques were fine when the industrial revolution hasn't occurred for most of the world, but the most have moved on from it, now are returning to it, the new R&R.

Two reasons:

Ability to employ lower skilled workforce. Recruiting is easier, returns on personnel investments are quicker, and wage bill is reduced.

Litigation. This is another biggie! If you make a user servicable item, you run the risk of being sued for loss, damage or injury -why? Because you made something that the user can adjust wrongly. A court of law could argue that you should ensure it's safe for the user towork on, or make it so they can't work on itat all. Even without a lawcase, this impacts all the insurance premiums, or increases the chance of the insurer wriggling out of payouts should an incidence occur.

[Miknitro]

@ Andi

listen at about 2:25.  It's this step that results in each tool being "different".  I'd rather a tool be "adjustable" so I can take matters to keep the tool working in the field.

In my last year's of working as a mechanic, the motto R&R went from remove and repair, to remove an replace.

Junk the old, in with the new. No field service, no interest in repair, loss of skill, theory and ability through no serviceable parts as best as OEM try to make happen.

Rivets, go against all that I am as a man. I lean to keep towards working and fixing issues, instead of it all stops here during a failure.
Others may not understand these days, old school building techniques were fine when the industrial revolution hasn't occurred for most of the world, but the most have moved on from it, now are returning to it, the new R&R.

Two reasons:

Ability to employ lower skilled workforce. Recruiting is easier, returns on personnel investments are quicker, and wage bill is reduced.

Litigation. This is another biggie! If you make a user servicable item, you run the risk of being sued for loss, damage or injury -why? Because you made something that the user can adjust wrongly. A court of law could argue that you should ensure it's safe for the user towork on, or make it so they can't work on itat all. Even without a lawcase, this impacts all the insurance premiums, or increases the chance of the insurer wriggling out of payouts should an incidence occur.

Yes absolutely the two main reasons, money and litigation from idiocy.
Warning, your coffee may be hot.

[anditsgone]

With knives and multi tools i don't agree, but with house hold equipment i agree.
Nothing is user replaceble, and what i hate the most is that the products are designed to last only about five years. Think of all the wasted materials and polution we are all worrying about.
Victorinox is using rivits for over a century so they are probably doing something good.