School Carry

[ducttapetech]

When I was in college I used to carry my leatherman wave/charge clipped to my pocket. They don't really care here.

I see a lot of student here have LMs or some type of a knife on them. Every once in a while I will see a small SAK of some sort.

Nate
That's us mobile

[aerojet]

"Weapons" and school -- it makes me shudder. What exactly is a weapon? Define that please! A folder is the worst type of knife to use in any situation. The blades can break easily if forced off side and they can be folded back on the user. As one post said, some goof used a #2 pencil for a "weapon" -- you could also use a BIC pen for that matter. Most of this is to cover, legally, the school district from being sued by the parents for harm to their children.

As far as carrying - we work in several school districts, and I have a SAK SOS kit on the right belt section followed by a Swiss Tool right behind that - nobody has ever said thing one about it. Perhaps because I am a contractor?

If they are getting "edgy" about you having a weapon on school property, perhaps it should be treated like CCW - none on school property. Not on you, not in the truck, not in any way near the school property if you are going in or working at the location. I try to group my school jobs in order, and leave my .380 home when I do those jobs. Period. Problem solved.

Perhaps you could do that too when going over to the school. It only takes one goofy principal to make an example of you, and your life miserable for a long time. Just take some advice from on old timer -- JUST do it, and make the goofy system happy and get on with life. Don't debate the subject, don't argue, just don't carry things with you if there is going to be a problem and everyone will be happy. You, your family, your lawyer, your insurance company, and whatever you maybe offending.

My 2 cents worth - your mileage may vary

[raistlin65]

"Weapons" and school -- it makes me shudder. What exactly is a weapon? Define that please! A folder is the worst type of knife to use in any situation. The blades can break easily if forced off side and they can be folded back on the user. As one post said, some goof used a #2 pencil for a "weapon" -- you could also use a BIC pen for that matter. Most of this is to cover, legally, the school district from being sued by the parents for harm to their children.

Sure. Kids can use other items as weapons. But the difference is that kids have no need for a knife at school. Whereas a pencil or pen is a necessary tool for school.  So I wouldn't say the rules are all about preventing the school from being sued. It's about the fact that some kids would, definitely, bring a knife to school specifically to be used as a weapon. Might as well make them leave it at home.

[GoatDragon]

84mm SAK should be OK according to the rules.  Good excuse to get a small Tinker or alox Cadet.

A 91mm SAK main blade clocks in right at 2.5 inches, so it should be fine by those rules too.

[kilowatt]

I definitely DO NOT agree with the opinion that since he was a good kid he should be given a pass and if he was a problem child they should make a example and throw the book at him. While he might be right everyone should be punished equally no matter your moral character.

Just for discussion purposes. Let's assume Little Joe is caught with a knife at school. He is packing a 4 inch fixed blade in his pocket in a sheath. Little Joe has been in trouble on a number of occasions, in particular using knives or other similar devices to threaten harm to his classmates and in one particular incident managed to cut a fellow student. Not seriously, but it drew blood. In addition, Little Joe has previously given illegal drugs to his classmates and was caught drinking intoxicants at school. Needless to say Little Joe because of his past problems is currently under the supervision of the juvenile division of the court. Little Joe pulled his knife from his pocket, removed it from the sheath and threatened Sally in the classroom.


Now for another example. Little Johnny has never been in trouble and has never been reprimanded or otherwise had a problem in school, with the law or otherwise. Little Johnny spent the weekend with his granddad on a camping trip. On the way home from the camping trip grandpa gave Little Johnny his Case peanut knife and told him he had owned it for 40 years but wanted to pass it along in the family. Little Johnny was very excited over receiving his first knife from his grandpa. On the way home from school Johnny removed the peanut from his jacket pocket to show it to his best friend on the bus without removing the blade from the knife.


Should the punishment for each "offense" be equal?

[captain spaulding]

I definitely DO NOT agree with the opinion that since he was a good kid he should be given a pass and if he was a problem child they should make a example and throw the book at him. While he might be right everyone should be punished equally no matter your moral character.

Just for discussion purposes. Let's assume Little Joe is caught with a knife at school. He is packing a 4 inch fixed blade in his pocket in a sheath. Little Joe has been in trouble on a number of occasions, in particular using knives or other similar devices to threaten harm to his classmates and in one particular incident managed to cut a fellow student. Not seriously, but it drew blood. In addition, Little Joe has previously given illegal drugs to his classmates and was caught drinking intoxicants at school. Needless to say Little Joe because of his past problems is currently under the supervision of the juvenile division of the court. Little Joe pulled his knife from his pocket, removed it from the sheath and threatened Sally in the classroom.


Now for another example. Little Johnny has never been in trouble and has never been reprimanded or otherwise had a problem in school, with the law or otherwise. Little Johnny spent the weekend with his granddad on a camping trip. On the way home from the camping trip grandpa gave Little Johnny his Case peanut knife and told him he had owned it for 40 years but wanted to pass it along in the family. Little Johnny was very excited over receiving his first knife from his grandpa. On the way home from school Johnny removed the peanut from his jacket pocket to show it to his best friend on the bus without removing the blade from the knife.


Should the punishment for each "offense" be equal?

In short yes both should be punished the same.

You can make up all sorts of scenarios to try and make one sound better than the other, but at the end of the day both would have brought a prohibited item to school. Simple as that. Your first scenario with "little Joe" is quite ridiculous anyways. If a child brought a knife to school and threatened another child and even used a knife to cut them (doesn't matter how bad) he would likely be in jail and expelled immediately.

[kilowatt]

Fortunately (in my humble opinion) judicial and most other systems do not operate in this fashion, however I understand your position. Thanks for your response.

[captain spaulding]

Fortunately (in my humble opinion) judicial and most other systems do not operate in this fashion, however I understand your position. Thanks for your response.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying the troubled child does not "deserve" more punishment, but I do believe everyone should be reprimanded equally in this particular situation. If we are talking a court of law things are a bit different.

Just my opinion though. No right or wrong here. 

[pfrsantos]

I definitely DO NOT agree with the opinion that since he was a good kid he should be given a pass and if he was a problem child they should make a example and throw the book at him. While he might be right everyone should be punished equally no matter your moral character.

Just for discussion purposes. Let's assume Little Joe is caught with a knife at school. He is packing a 4 inch fixed blade in his pocket in a sheath. Little Joe has been in trouble on a number of occasions, in particular using knives or other similar devices to threaten harm to his classmates and in one particular incident managed to cut a fellow student. Not seriously, but it drew blood. In addition, Little Joe has previously given illegal drugs to his classmates and was caught drinking intoxicants at school. Needless to say Little Joe because of his past problems is currently under the supervision of the juvenile division of the court. Little Joe pulled his knife from his pocket, removed it from the sheath and threatened Sally in the classroom.


Now for another example. Little Johnny has never been in trouble and has never been reprimanded or otherwise had a problem in school, with the law or otherwise. Little Johnny spent the weekend with his granddad on a camping trip. On the way home from the camping trip grandpa gave Little Johnny his Case peanut knife and told him he had owned it for 40 years but wanted to pass it along in the family. Little Johnny was very excited over receiving his first knife from his grandpa. On the way home from school Johnny removed the peanut from his jacket pocket to show it to his best friend on the bus without removing the blade from the knife.


Should the punishment for each "offense" be equal?

What are the laws of the land? You have to take into account what the "local" law says. Can't let your own personal experience/ideas give the answer here. Read the law, apply it to the situation, you have your answer. Period.


Remember: law and justice are not synonims.
 

[Kampfer]

Just measured the blade length of Kick's blade, from tip to handle is exactly at 2.5"
I think it is legal to carry in school.

[Kampfer]

Kick-A.S.S. version 2 to meet Restrictions on knives in California schools

[captain spaulding]

[Kampfer]

(Image removed from quote.)

I take that as an approval   

[captain spaulding]

(Image removed from quote.)

I take that as an approval

Oh yea!

[Kampfer]

At the stories about little Joe and little Johnny:
They both broke the same law, but Johnny probably got off easy with a warning. Will the school call the cops on Joe? You bet! Now he must deal with the judge.

[gregozedobe]

At the stories about little Joe and little Johnny:
They both broke the same law, but Johnny probably got off easy with a warning. Will the school call the cops on Joe? You bet! Now he must deal with the judge.

I read the actions of the two boys very differently - Joe threatened Sally with his knife, Johnny didn't.  So I would expect (hope for ?) different outcomes.   Context is important !  They may have both broken a "carrying a knife" law (depending on the laws that apply where they are), but Joe threatened to use it to cause bodily harm which is a whole different ball game (to me, at least).

[captain spaulding]

At the stories about little Joe and little Johnny:
They both broke the same law, but Johnny probably got off easy with a warning. Will the school call the cops on Joe? You bet! Now he must deal with the judge.

I read the actions of the two boys very differently - Joe threatened Sally with his knife, Johnny didn't.  So I would expect (hope for ?) different outcomes.   Context is important !  They may have both broken a "carrying a knife" law (depending on the laws that apply where they are), but Joe threatened to use it to cause bodily harm which is a whole different ball game (to me, at least).

The act of the threatening bodily harm would of been a past event which is why I said in my post

Your first scenario with "little Joe" is quite ridiculous anyways. If a child brought a knife to school and threatened another child and even used a knife to cut them (doesn't matter how bad) he would likely be in jail and expelled immediately.

He would of never been in school after that to have gotten caught with a knife in the other scenario which we were discussing.

[kilowatt]

The issue is punishment for the same offense. For purposes of punishment most systems, judicial and non-judicial such as in an employment situation, factor in past conduct and the circumstances surrounding the violation itself. Two people may violate the same law or rule, but it is not unusual for one of them to receive more punishment than the other. If you prefer to analyze things with a black and white lens then both should be punished equally. If you believe all factors should be taken into consideration then perhaps each violator may receive different punishment.


There are many reasons for punishment including reformation, retribution, deterrence, rehabilitation, etc.