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SAK combo dilema 1924

Newbie Posts: 14
SAK combo dilema
« on: January 07, 2017, 04:11:13 PM »
Out of my selection of SAKs, my Deluxe Tinker is probably the one that is getting the most pocket time at the moment; it is the smallest one that has pliers and I find this particularly useful. In fact between the pliers, Phillips and variety of flat head drivers it does most of what I want...

But...

There are times when an inline Phillips is useful because you may need to get into a tight corner and I've also needed a file or wood saw (usually because I've been too lazy to walk down the six flights of stairs to the garage and get the proper tool!)

What I could do is ditch the Tinker in favour of my Cybertool 41 which has absolutely everything I could wish for but I find it is a little big for EDC purposes. I agonised long and hard over whether to go for a Cybertool 41 or the Swiss Champ but I'm never going to use a fish descaler and that was the clincher. What I have started doing is carrying a pair of 4 or 5 layer SAKs, the Deluxe Tinker and A.N.Other (currently a Fieldmaster) which increases my options while still leaving me with handy sized tools but still not quite my optimal load out. I've had a good look round but can't see a perfect solution... am I missing something somewhere?

So guys and girls my question is there a pair of current SAKs would give me pliers, wood saw, metal file and an inline Philips with no blade locking and no more than 5 tool layers? The inline screwdriver is probably my next most wanted feature after the pliers.

SAKs
Wenger Soldier, Pioneer, Pioneer Farmer, Pioneer X, Classic, Cadet
Climber, Mountaineer, Deluxe Tinker, Ranger, Cybertool 39, Cybertool 41, Fieldmaster, Handyman, Explorer, Soldier, Evogrip 18
Leatherman
OHT, Surge, Skeletool, Freestyle, Squirt and Sideclip
Spyderco
UKPK, Urban Lightweight, Squeak, Squeak Ti, PITS, Mantra, Harpy, Tasman Salt, Rescue 79, Assist, Techno, Civilian, Cliptool Serrated, Paramilitary 2, Ti Dog Tag, ARK H1, Bug, Honeybee and Grasshopper
Fallkniven F1, Mora Garberg, Ka-Bar MK 1
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,053 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2017, 04:21:37 PM »
There comes a point when carrying two separate tools is better than one cumbersome one. Personally I like to keep pliers and Phillips duty for the pliers tool rather than a SAK. An IDL T5 or T7 (or similar) might be a game changer for you. In a larger format, a knifeless plier modification might be an option too. The blade is easily removed from a Gerber Octane, and leaves a very slim profile on a deep carry pocket clip.

Sticking strictly with SAKs, you have essentially described a CT41 without scissors - which won't alter thickness much, and would need to be a modification as it's not a standard model.

Seriously, check out the T5 and T7, and maybe even some of the Swiss+tech offerings too



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Hero Member Posts: 691 With every mistake we must surely be learning
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 04:55:16 PM »
I do love the Deluxe Tinker model. 4 layers and has a pliers. But as you said about the limitation of the backside phillips driver, I feel the same about it.

Then I found one SAK named Yeoman Mechanic. But it was hard to find. So I made a custom one, with a little help of my friend.

So it's still a 4 layers SAK, has a pliers and of course inline phillips driver. Well if you want to built a custom one, just add a wood saw.

Here it is compared to my Deluxe Tinker.







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« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 04:57:05 PM by classicrock »

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Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2017, 05:05:48 PM »
Have you considered the 111mm line?  111mm pliers has an inline Phillips in the same layer.  You could get a Workchamp with everything on your list.  Or a  Hercules at 5 layers and combine with any metal-file-equipped SAK (e.g. Mountaineer).  Or a Skipper with that cool marlin spike and a Ranger.

I had similar thoughts a while back for some modding.  I had a Swiss Champ that had a broken file, as well as a chewed up blade.  I decided to disassemble and split my favorite implements over two modded SAKs.  I ended up with a Troubleshooter and a Woodsman (both discontinued models).  You may be able to find these secondhand but they're pretty rare I think.

In practice, though, I usually pair a plier-based MT with a SAK to achieve what you're talking about.  Ranger plus LM Skeletool could work, or Explorer paired with any file- and saw-equipped MT (Wave, Rebar, Spirit).
Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,964 I brake for cake
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2017, 05:28:41 PM »
Squirt PS4 + Farmer/Hiker
No Life Club Posts: 2,842
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2017, 05:44:53 PM »
Hercules are pretty solid. It has a locking blade tho..

I knew my wife was a keeper when she transitioned from calling it a knife thingy to a multi-tool.

I might be crazy but it's kept me from going insane- Waylon Jennings
Newbie Posts: 48
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2017, 06:29:35 PM »
A Vic Ranger (knife & saws) plus a Swiss+Tech 6-in-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Swiss-Tech-ST50022-Multitool-Screwdrivers/dp/B0001EFSUC) (pliers, Phillips & flathead screwdrivers) might cover your needs on a pretty small and not-too-expensive package, with minimal overlap.  But the Swiss+Tech pliers quite different from the Vic pliers (which could be a pro or con depending on your needs & preferences).

  - FiL
No Life Club Posts: 1,486
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2017, 07:02:51 PM »
What I have started doing is carrying a pair of 4 or 5 layer SAKs, the Deluxe Tinker and A.N.Other (currently a Fieldmaster) which increases my options while still leaving me with handy sized tools but still not quite my optimal load out. I've had a good look round but can't see a perfect solution... am I missing something somewhere?

So you're carrying two SAKS, totaling 10.6 ounces... and that's better than carrying one Cybertool 41 that weighs HALF as much at 5.4 ounces? :think:

even a Swisschamp at 7 ounces would be lighter, and offer more tools without the redundancy .
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 07:05:20 PM by shamus »
No Life Club Posts: 1,044
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2017, 08:01:53 PM »
For me it's not as much about weight as it is wieldiness. I like the idea of dividing a Swisschamp over 2 tools.

As mentioned, often people prefer a pliers based MT to compliment the SAK.

I see the Ranger as Cuttypants McCuttington, pretty much everything on it is for cutting. And therefore one may assume more likely to wear out eventually, whereas a mechanic or Cybertool 34/M has more tools that don't really wear out, or with the bits, can be easily replaced.

So even though it's lopsided, you could go with a Mechanic and a Ranger. Or a custom bladeless mod like a CT driver and pliers only (2 layers but 2 of the thickest) or add a 3rd layer with IL phillips and mag or LED (IL phillips and CT driver seems redundant but many have noted specific cases where one or the other is better.) This would be the Toolsy Toolington SAK for mechanical adjustments. You could get ultra custom and use a Wenger/Delemont wrench/phillips.

Also with 2 equally weighted SAKs, you can connect them together with a chain between keyrings for inprovised nunchaku. If you use one red and one blue SAK you would have a Thundercats worthy set of Panthro nunchucks. Also you could connect a wire saw between them and use them as handles and saw down giant trees (in a sustainable growth area of course)

I love the SwissChamp and would like to own a CT41 but they do get a little funky to hold especially with blades and screwdrivers that aren't centered in the tool. So splitting it into 2 makes sense.

Factory made SAKs will have redundant tools, but you could go with, for instance, a Matterhorn and a Woodsman Lite or Mountaineer Lite, so atleast the blades aren't exactly redundant. Yeoman Mechanic plus Ranger seems to be a good combo, or yeoman Mechanic plus metal fine paired with a huntsman.

Basically pick a commonly available model and then just do one custom SAK with the missing tools.

There are more options for this with Wengers since many of them had serrated blades and stranger tools. I tend to prefer the Vic tools and feel though, personally.

I have a Hercules and do appreciate how the 2 phillips don't add any layers (as mentioned, being tucked under the pliers and scissors) but I still find it a bit too wide for comfort and the blade is way off to one side.

You may want to pair 2 different sizes of SAK for the benefits of their sizes, with the file and saw on a 111mm knife for the extra stroke length.

Maybe locking OH blade, file and saw on 111 and then a CT34.

Since I gotta have a nail file, I've been pairing a rambler or mini champ with bigger knives to get that small philips and the nail file.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 08:06:31 PM by JamesJ »

-JJL
instagram: jamesjlarue (warning, lots of cat pics along with the SAKs)
No Life Club Posts: 3,021
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2017, 08:23:01 PM »
Hercules are pretty solid. It has a locking blade tho..

Of course you could just rip the red scales off and put some dual density scales on there. It would look cooler and you'd lose the lock!

The problem with the Hercules is (as I have discovered) it's just stupidly big. Not really made for schlepping around.

I solved my own Phillips dilemma by giving in to the fact that a real screwdriver is always going to be better than a SAK one. Backside or front, SAK Phillipses often can't do the job for a variety of reasons. Just ignore them and things become a lot less complicated, SAK wise...
Hero Member Posts: 666
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2017, 09:08:47 PM »
Why Vic if you really need pliers?
Get eveything else, but use separate pliers of your choosing.

Leatherman:
Charge TTi, AL, Squirt PS4, Surge, Juice XE6, CS4, S2, ST300, Crunch, OHT, MUT, Rebar, Brewzer, Signal, Raptor, Tool Adapter, Croc, Wave, Style CS, Freestyle, Skeletool RX, Micra, Wingman
SOG:
PPP, PowerLock, SwitchPlier 2.0, Paratool, PowerAssist, Reactor, CrossCut, PowerPlay
Gerber:
FliK, MP600 ProScout, MP600 blunt, Dime, MP-1, Diesel, MP400
Bahco:
MTT151, MTT051, MTT121
Knives:
Spyderco PM2, Tatanka, Bug, ZT 0452CF, CS Recon1XL, Benchmade 940-1 and 482
SAKs:
Too many to list here...
Full Member Posts: 190
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2017, 09:23:59 PM »
A Ranger (or Master Craftsman) will give you the wood saw and metal file in a thin  5 layer package.
For the Pliers and Phillips consider the following possibilities:
Pliers - A Leatherman P4 ( or PS4 or Style PS) on keyring .
Phillips - A Leatherman Crater TX 33 - has an inline Phillips in addition to the one handed opening blade.
I sometimes carry that clipped to my right pants pocket, and a SAK dangling from a cord into my left pocket.
No Life Club Posts: 3,085
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2017, 09:53:29 PM »
The Crater with bits is a good option, BUT the OP is in England, I believe he is restricted from having a locking blade.

That is a bummer and I do not understand the restriction as I have read about several attacks with knifes, that are fixed, most often kitchen knifes, larger than any pocket folder.

If I start and end the day above ground, it is a good day!

Hope yours is as good!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,498 motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: SAK combo dilemma
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2017, 09:56:56 PM »
I would go with the CT41 and just carry it until you get used to the size. I did this with the SwissChamp and carried one for years.  :salute:
Full Member Posts: 190
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2017, 10:16:18 PM »
The Crater with bits is a good option, BUT the OP is in England, I believe he is restricted from having a locking blade.

 I understand, sorry for not noting that.
How about substituting a Spartan Lite or CT 29 or Explorer in place of the Crater ?
Scientists ,Yeomans and Passengers are harder to find and more costly.

Newbie Posts: 14
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2017, 10:27:18 PM »
There comes a point when carrying two separate tools is better than one cumbersome one. Personally I like to keep pliers and Phillips duty for the pliers tool rather than a SAK. An IDL T5 or T7 (or similar) might be a game changer for you. In a larger format, a knifeless plier modification might be an option too. The blade is easily removed from a Gerber Octane, and leaves a very slim profile on a deep carry pocket clip.

Sticking strictly with SAKs, you have essentially described a CT41 without scissors - which won't alter thickness much, and would need to be a modification as it's not a standard model.

Seriously, check out the T5 and T7, and maybe even some of the Swiss+tech offerings too

That's a possibility. I do have a set of Screwpop pliers but I was trying to minimise the number of separate widgets I carry around.

SAKs
Wenger Soldier, Pioneer, Pioneer Farmer, Pioneer X, Classic, Cadet
Climber, Mountaineer, Deluxe Tinker, Ranger, Cybertool 39, Cybertool 41, Fieldmaster, Handyman, Explorer, Soldier, Evogrip 18
Leatherman
OHT, Surge, Skeletool, Freestyle, Squirt and Sideclip
Spyderco
UKPK, Urban Lightweight, Squeak, Squeak Ti, PITS, Mantra, Harpy, Tasman Salt, Rescue 79, Assist, Techno, Civilian, Cliptool Serrated, Paramilitary 2, Ti Dog Tag, ARK H1, Bug, Honeybee and Grasshopper
Fallkniven F1, Mora Garberg, Ka-Bar MK 1
Newbie Posts: 14
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2017, 10:59:28 PM »
Thanks for the input, there's certainly plenty of options there.
In an ideal world I'd probably just go with a Leatherman or Swisstool type MT but unfortunately the best plier tools all have locking blades, even the new "bladeless" Rebar risks running foul of UK knife laws because it still has a locking saw blade and reamer. The best UK legal plier tool I've found (for my purposes at least) is probably the Leatherman Squirt although it's petite to say the least it has proven itself. As I said above, I'm trying to minimise the number of widgets I carry (if I ever get asked to turn out my pockets it could be embarrassing) and it's not so much the overall weight that's the issue but the handiness of the tool itself - I don't mind two smaller SAKs over one big one but I'd rather minimise duplication. I've been looking for the perfect multitool for years and concluded that it doesn't exist and there will always have to be some compromise along the way. Maybe the CT41 isn't so bad  :)

SAKs
Wenger Soldier, Pioneer, Pioneer Farmer, Pioneer X, Classic, Cadet
Climber, Mountaineer, Deluxe Tinker, Ranger, Cybertool 39, Cybertool 41, Fieldmaster, Handyman, Explorer, Soldier, Evogrip 18
Leatherman
OHT, Surge, Skeletool, Freestyle, Squirt and Sideclip
Spyderco
UKPK, Urban Lightweight, Squeak, Squeak Ti, PITS, Mantra, Harpy, Tasman Salt, Rescue 79, Assist, Techno, Civilian, Cliptool Serrated, Paramilitary 2, Ti Dog Tag, ARK H1, Bug, Honeybee and Grasshopper
Fallkniven F1, Mora Garberg, Ka-Bar MK 1
Newbie Posts: 14
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2017, 11:31:37 PM »
I do love the Deluxe Tinker model. 4 layers and has a pliers. But as you said about the limitation of the backside phillips driver, I feel the same about it.

Then I found one SAK named Yeoman Mechanic. But it was hard to find. So I made a custom one, with a little help of my friend.
So it's still a 4 layers SAK, has a pliers and of course inline phillips driver. Well if you want to built a custom one, just add a wood saw.

That is rather nice but as you say, hard to find. The Master Craftsman is another one I'd like to get my hands on :(

SAKs
Wenger Soldier, Pioneer, Pioneer Farmer, Pioneer X, Classic, Cadet
Climber, Mountaineer, Deluxe Tinker, Ranger, Cybertool 39, Cybertool 41, Fieldmaster, Handyman, Explorer, Soldier, Evogrip 18
Leatherman
OHT, Surge, Skeletool, Freestyle, Squirt and Sideclip
Spyderco
UKPK, Urban Lightweight, Squeak, Squeak Ti, PITS, Mantra, Harpy, Tasman Salt, Rescue 79, Assist, Techno, Civilian, Cliptool Serrated, Paramilitary 2, Ti Dog Tag, ARK H1, Bug, Honeybee and Grasshopper
Fallkniven F1, Mora Garberg, Ka-Bar MK 1
Newbie Posts: 14
Re: SAK combo dilemma
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2017, 12:15:30 AM »
I would go with the CT41 and just carry it until you get used to the size. I did this with the SwissChamp and carried one for years.  :salute:

I've pretty much reached that conclusion, I used to carry my CT39 regularly - what's one or two more layers?
Next step is maybe try my own mod but not I'll have to start collecting distressed second handers first. I haven't got the nerve to break up one of mine.

SAKs
Wenger Soldier, Pioneer, Pioneer Farmer, Pioneer X, Classic, Cadet
Climber, Mountaineer, Deluxe Tinker, Ranger, Cybertool 39, Cybertool 41, Fieldmaster, Handyman, Explorer, Soldier, Evogrip 18
Leatherman
OHT, Surge, Skeletool, Freestyle, Squirt and Sideclip
Spyderco
UKPK, Urban Lightweight, Squeak, Squeak Ti, PITS, Mantra, Harpy, Tasman Salt, Rescue 79, Assist, Techno, Civilian, Cliptool Serrated, Paramilitary 2, Ti Dog Tag, ARK H1, Bug, Honeybee and Grasshopper
Fallkniven F1, Mora Garberg, Ka-Bar MK 1
Hero Member Posts: 955
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2017, 01:04:40 AM »
I do love the Deluxe Tinker model. 4 layers and has a pliers. But as you said about the limitation of the backside phillips driver, I feel the same about it.

Then I found one SAK named Yeoman Mechanic. But it was hard to find. So I made a custom one, with a little help of my friend.
So it's still a 4 layers SAK, has a pliers and of course inline phillips driver. Well if you want to built a custom one, just add a wood saw.

That is rather nice but as you say, hard to find. The Master Craftsman is another one I'd like to get my hands on :(


You can buy the Master Craftsman new from Amazon Japan still (with the nice Space Shuttle inlay). I did this a few weeks before Xmas and it arrived at my door in the UK 4 days later. It's 5 layers, but all quite thin ones, so it's not that thick. Every layer has a back tool, which is nice too.


https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B000AR7A3S/ref=pe_492632_159100282_TE_item


« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 01:17:47 AM by Oxford_Guy »

"We broke into Mir using a Swiss Army knife. Never leave the planet without one." - Chris Hadfield, Astronaut
Hero Member Posts: 955
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2017, 01:25:28 AM »
Thanks for the input, there's certainly plenty of options there.
In an ideal world I'd probably just go with a Leatherman or Swisstool type MT but unfortunately the best plier tools all have locking blades, even the new "bladeless" Rebar risks running foul of UK knife laws because it still has a locking saw blade and reamer. The best UK legal plier tool I've found (for my purposes at least) is probably the Leatherman Squirt although it's petite to say the least it has proven itself. As I said above, I'm trying to minimise the number of widgets I carry (if I ever get asked to turn out my pockets it could be embarrassing) and it's not so much the overall weight that's the issue but the handiness of the tool itself - I don't mind two smaller SAKs over one big one but I'd rather minimise duplication. I've been looking for the perfect multitool for years and concluded that it doesn't exist and there will always have to be some compromise along the way. Maybe the CT41 isn't so bad  :)


But I did find somewhere selling NOS Leatherman Knifeless Fuses - I bought one myself last year, but they had more - this has no knife, saw or awl, so UK-friendly but does have scissors, metal file, can/bottle opener and Phillips and flat drivers, all of which lock. If interested PM me and I'll send you a link to the shop

"We broke into Mir using a Swiss Army knife. Never leave the planet without one." - Chris Hadfield, Astronaut
Sr. Member Posts: 278
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2017, 07:54:01 AM »
In practice, though, I usually pair a plier-based MT with a SAK to achieve what you're talking about.  Ranger plus LM Skeletool could work, or Explorer paired with any file- and saw-equipped MT (Wave, Rebar, Spirit).

This.

I also realised that even though I wanted the saw/file/pliers/3d Philips, I rarely need them on person. So I like to carry my favourite 3 layer sak on person (Pioneer X handles most Philips screws just fine), and leave a Rebar in my work/EDC bag that's usually in the vicinity.

Hans
Newbie Posts: 14
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2017, 07:50:02 PM »
Been carrying my CT41 for a while and it's been surprisingly handy as I did have misgivings about its size. I had another look at my Handyman which is a little more compact, the only problem being the lack of a Phillips.

Here's one possible solution 😀

SAKs
Wenger Soldier, Pioneer, Pioneer Farmer, Pioneer X, Classic, Cadet
Climber, Mountaineer, Deluxe Tinker, Ranger, Cybertool 39, Cybertool 41, Fieldmaster, Handyman, Explorer, Soldier, Evogrip 18
Leatherman
OHT, Surge, Skeletool, Freestyle, Squirt and Sideclip
Spyderco
UKPK, Urban Lightweight, Squeak, Squeak Ti, PITS, Mantra, Harpy, Tasman Salt, Rescue 79, Assist, Techno, Civilian, Cliptool Serrated, Paramilitary 2, Ti Dog Tag, ARK H1, Bug, Honeybee and Grasshopper
Fallkniven F1, Mora Garberg, Ka-Bar MK 1
No Life Club Posts: 1,544
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2017, 02:26:16 AM »
Before I was finished reading the original post, I was already thinking Victorinox Spirit X.  Working around legal restrictions that prevent carrying multi-tools with locking blades does put a crimp in the better options.  Although particularly fond of my Spirit X and LM Charge TTI & AL, I find myself spending more time with one of my LM Juice multi-tools (none of which have locking blades).  I always have a Vic Explorer in my pocket and have swapped out a Vic Compact with a LM Juice S2 for the other pocket.  The pliers are far superior to the Vic fold-out (Tinker Deluxe, Mechanic, Swiss Champ, etc) and it has a set of drivers (using the optional extender, it can use standard 1/4" bits). 

Since one of your requirements was a saw, you can opt for the LM Juice CS4 and it would only add an extra ounce.  Want the saw, a serrated blade & a file?  The LM Juice Pro (retired) and the Juice XE6 add a little more weight to the CS4 but pack more functions.  These tools are small, dense and will weigh more that their small size would suggest but the return is a very useful pliers/wire cutters/needle nose.

Another option would be to go with a Cybertool 29, reducing SAK layers to 3 then and use something like a LM Squirt PS4 for scissors and pliers (I would still look at a Juice S2 or C2 for pliers & drivers...the S2 has scissors).

Good luck!
Newbie Posts: 14
Re: SAK combo dilema
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2017, 05:15:50 PM »
Had occasion to walk up Tottenham Court Road (for non U.K. readers this is a street in London famed for its cut price electronics shops although they are getting a bit thin on the ground these days due I guess to more internet shopping), happened to glance in the window of a photographic shop and saw this, a Handyman with a Phillips aka the much missed Craftsman! I suspect my enthusiasm may have counted against getting a discount for "old model" but I didn't want to lose this one.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 05:17:31 PM by Nick762 »

SAKs
Wenger Soldier, Pioneer, Pioneer Farmer, Pioneer X, Classic, Cadet
Climber, Mountaineer, Deluxe Tinker, Ranger, Cybertool 39, Cybertool 41, Fieldmaster, Handyman, Explorer, Soldier, Evogrip 18
Leatherman
OHT, Surge, Skeletool, Freestyle, Squirt and Sideclip
Spyderco
UKPK, Urban Lightweight, Squeak, Squeak Ti, PITS, Mantra, Harpy, Tasman Salt, Rescue 79, Assist, Techno, Civilian, Cliptool Serrated, Paramilitary 2, Ti Dog Tag, ARK H1, Bug, Honeybee and Grasshopper
Fallkniven F1, Mora Garberg, Ka-Bar MK 1

 

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