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New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts 3303

Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 57,614 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2017, 12:46:45 PM »
When will be out these new models?

The usual answer is May, but I don't ave release dates just yet.  As soon as I find anything out I will let everyone know.  :D

Def

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Jr. Member Posts: 71
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2017, 03:20:15 PM »
 :cheers:

I have nothing against corkscrew, i'm Italian!!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2017, 05:54:13 PM »
So we might see some user reviews by June or July  :think: That's a long time to wait to see how far off the mark I am with some of my comments :ahhh


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
No Life Club Posts: 1,887 I know you are, but what am I?
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2017, 09:52:08 PM »
Last year, the Reactor and PowerPlay were released in February. So, maybe... :pok:

Without POL, pilots are pedestrians.
Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 57,614 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2017, 10:08:51 PM »
I've sent a message off to SOG to see what they have to say about release dates.

Def

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No Life Club Posts: 3,370 Nothing's typical around here
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2017, 02:55:38 AM »
I dont think I can wait until June....

Ive never purchased a NIB multitool for myself. The PowerAccess may change that.

Laughter is the best Medicine
Slaughter is just Laughter with an "S"

We are looking for Multitool Encyclopedia Editors! If you are interested, please give me a PM!

The Multitool Encyclopedia Editing for Dummies Page: http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,65751.0.html
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Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 57,614 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2017, 02:29:01 PM »
I dont think I can wait until June....

Ive never purchased a NIB multitool for myself. The PowerAccess may change that.

If that isn't high praise I don't know what is!

Def

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Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2017, 04:37:02 PM »



VS



Replaceable cutters VS Compound leverage and unimpeded gripping area

Inboard Tools VS Outboard Tools

Ph2 and 2x flat drivers VS Ph1 and 4x flat drivers

Saw and serrated blade VS central 1/4" hex driver and protractor

Lanyard ring and sheath VS pocket clip (no sheath)

$60.85 list price VS $67.00 list price


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
No Life Club Posts: 3,370 Nothing's typical around here
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2017, 06:55:23 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)


VS

(Image removed from quote.)

Replaceable cutters VS Compound leverage and unimpeded gripping area

I think PowerAcess wins here. Compound leverage is a huge plus to me, and the replacable wirecutters were never all that special
Quote

Inboard Tools VS Outboard Tools

PowerAcess, no contest, outboard is vastly superior for almost all tasks, and makes the pliers more comfortable to use.
Quote
Ph2 and 2x flat drivers VS Ph1 and 4x3x flat drivers
[\quote]
I think Rebar wins here. PH2 (especially one that also works on PH1) is just much more useful than the small driver.

Quote
Saw and serrated blade VS central 1/4" hex driver and protractor
Sigh. Rebar again, because lets face it, if im pocket carrying, I wont have a bit kit. I wish something else had gone here, but its hardly bad just because I wont use it.
Quote
Lanyard ring and sheath VS pocket clip (no sheath)
[\Quote]
PowerAcess. I wish the clip wasnt so large, but I dislike sheath carry.
Quote

$60.85 list price VS $67.00 list price
Rebar.

Totals:

Rebar: 3
PowerAcess: 3

smurf.

Laughter is the best Medicine
Slaughter is just Laughter with an "S"

We are looking for Multitool Encyclopedia Editors! If you are interested, please give me a PM!

The Multitool Encyclopedia Editing for Dummies Page: http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,65751.0.html
Multitool Encyclopedia Suggested Edits Page: http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,65746.0.html
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2017, 03:03:39 AM »
I think a lot of people would echo your feelings there. As for the bit kit, with the amount of flat blades on there, plus the smaller Phillips, many people would probably be fine with just a long Ph2 bit, which you could just keep in your wallet if you needed to.


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 57,614 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2017, 01:10:09 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)


VS

(Image removed from quote.)

Replaceable cutters VS Compound leverage and unimpeded gripping area

Inboard Tools VS Outboard Tools

Ph2 and 2x flat drivers VS Ph1 and 4x flat drivers

Saw and serrated blade VS central 1/4" hex driver and protractor

Lanyard ring and sheath VS pocket clip (no sheath)

$60.85 list price VS $67.00 list price

Just a few observations on this particular head to head matchup:

The 2x Flat drivers are dedicated flatheads on the Rebar, while half the 4x Flat Drivers on the SOG are integrated into other tools.

The folding lanyard ring on the Rebar is also quite awful, and is sheet metal so any lanyard is not likely to survive any length of time.  And, the sheath issue is easily fixed since you can always buy a sheath to go with it.

I really hate folding lanyard rings.  The LM ones are flimsy and sharp and the Gerber ones are really thick and take up too much space.  Thankfully at least Gerber has had the sense to stop putting them on tools.

Def

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No Life Club Posts: 2,284
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2017, 03:01:09 AM »
I've been closely examining the Powergrab and a few things to note

1) The screws that hold the internal tools together are regular torx screws. Which imo means the inner tools will be somewhat interchangeable. Which would be great because I hate sog scissors and the file is not great by any means. I've emailed sog about this but so far no response. If the possibility is there to custom, then  :gimme:  :gimme:  :gimme:

2) The tabs on the side are new lock styles for sog. If you zoom in you can see a small unlock icon on the side. I've attached a pic below. Thank god they didn't use the awful studs from the powerplay. That would immediately turned me off of this tool. Another win....if they work :drool:  :drool:  :drool:

3) With all of these things in mind, I'm actually hoping this is the new successor to the Powerlock. I enjoy using my PL but it has one huge fault...flimsy covers :bnghd: The powergrab is really looking like a winner, it's like they used the powerplay as a pilot tool and this is their ace.
22.61 kB | 361x330
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 03:02:18 AM by Demel »

"Talent is God given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful." -John Wooden
Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 57,614 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2017, 12:53:32 PM »
That is very interesting- I hadn't looked that closely at it, but that is one of the things I love about this forum!  Nothing gets past MTO members!  :D

Def

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No Life Club Posts: 3,370 Nothing's typical around here
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2017, 01:24:15 PM »
I thought 50ft had already established those were locks.... :shrug:

I am going to have to change my opinion though, initially I thought those were plenty robust for lock releases, but now that Demel has posted that close up, I'm beginning to have my doubts. That is one thin piece of metal going from the loop to the locks.

Laughter is the best Medicine
Slaughter is just Laughter with an "S"

We are looking for Multitool Encyclopedia Editors! If you are interested, please give me a PM!

The Multitool Encyclopedia Editing for Dummies Page: http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,65751.0.html
Multitool Encyclopedia Suggested Edits Page: http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,65746.0.html
No Life Club Posts: 2,284
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2017, 01:31:48 PM »
I thought 50ft had already established those were locks.... :shrug:

I am going to have to change my opinion though, initially I thought those were plenty robust for lock releases, but now that Demel has posted that close up, I'm beginning to have my doubts. That is one thin piece of metal going from the loop to the locks.
He might have but I'm still getting caught up on reading. I've been out for a while.

I'm not sure how reliable they are either but that's why I said "if" they work. :tu:

"Talent is God given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful." -John Wooden
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #75 on: January 13, 2017, 01:39:55 PM »
I thought 50ft had already established those were locks.... :shrug:

I am going to have to change my opinion though, initially I thought those were plenty robust for lock releases, but now that Demel has posted that close up, I'm beginning to have my doubts. That is one thin piece of metal going from the loop to the locks.

Yeah, I'd spotted they were the new lock releases, and mentioned earlier in this thread that I thought they looked a bit delicate. Depending how high they sit off the frame, they might snag on stuff too

EDIT: Actually, I might have mentioned it in the catalogue thread instead
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 01:43:10 PM by 50ft-trad »


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
No Life Club Posts: 1,887 I know you are, but what am I?
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #76 on: January 13, 2017, 08:11:50 PM »

3) With all of these things in mind, I'm actually hoping this is the new successor to the Powerlock. I enjoy using my PL but it has one huge fault...flimsy covers :bnghd: The powergrab is really looking like a winner, it's like they used the powerplay as a pilot tool and this is their ace.

I agree, especially on this last point. From the initial pic from the catalog, I was thinking that the PowerGrab would end up being the replacement for the PowerLock, but that it didn't look the part. But after the additional images on SOGs website went live, it looks similar to the PL in the right ways, but with some necessary enhancements. I think the bit driver on the reverse of the pliers head was a real game changer, not just for SOG, but the MT industry, so they aggressively sought to saturate the market with their innovation. Now, their "heavy-duty" offering matches up even better with the Surge. Now they have a "mid-size" tool with the PowerPlay to go head to head with Wave. They have the "lightweight" Reactor that competes directly with Skeletool. SOGs answer to the Wingman/Sidekick is the PowerAccess. Basically, from 2014 until now, SOG has completely revamped their multitool line up and they are more competitive with Leatherman

Without POL, pilots are pedestrians.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,343
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2017, 06:49:12 PM »
I hate to admit it, but I'm intrigued by the Baton Q1.  And then I look at the additional pictures, realize how large it is, and retract my statement.  :facepalm:

I'll probably end up with a Flint, though, once it comes to market.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2017, 10:31:30 PM »
I hate to admit it, but I'm intrigued by the Baton Q1.  And then I look at the additional pictures, realize how large it is, and retract my statement.  :facepalm:

I'll probably end up with a Flint, though, once it comes to market.

I know I'm repeating myself, but I'm REALLY struggling to see market potential for the Batons. Sure, a handful of collectors might grab one, but they are big, too expensive to be "Dad gifts", not particularly ergonomic, and quite light on features considering price and size. There's a lot of better options out there.


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
No Life Club Posts: 2,107
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #79 on: January 19, 2017, 06:21:44 AM »
Whoa. Some very cool looking stuff coming out!  :tu:

multi-tools—folding contraptions fixed with all kinds of doo-dads
Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 57,614 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2017, 01:37:23 PM »
I have poopoo-ed enough new designs then ended up liking them after using and carrying them (cough Freestyle cough) that while I may have some preconceived notions about the usefulness of a tool, I always keep an open mind about it.  It's fine if you don't think you are interested, but my curiosity drives me to the point where I want to try the new tools, and I really want them to work.

Maybe it's because of that cheapo Benchmark that I have played with often that I see more potential in the Baton series, but I have to say they may just be something interesting and new in an unfamiliar package, and I would hate to shoot them down simply because they are different.

Def

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No Life Club Posts: 1,162
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2017, 02:37:52 PM »
I have poopoo-ed enough new designs then ended up liking them after using and carrying them (cough Freestyle cough) that while I may have some preconceived notions about the usefulness of a tool, I always keep an open mind about it.  It's fine if you don't think you are interested, but my curiosity drives me to the point where I want to try the new tools, and I really want them to work.

Maybe it's because of that cheapo Benchmark that I have played with often that I see more potential in the Baton series, but I have to say they may just be something interesting and new in an unfamiliar package, and I would hate to shoot them down simply because they are different.

Def

I agree, this could be a good seller since there's so many ways of carrying a pen and most of them would work for carrying these. They might simply be that these aren't really aimed at MT.o users though since we, almost by definition, are OK with carrying traditionally shaped multitools. I believe that in the EDC-crowd these would fit in perfectly in pocket organisers or indeed in pen slots in briefcases and other bags.
OCD Squad Leader Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 10,306
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #82 on: January 23, 2017, 03:25:14 PM »
I have poopoo-ed enough new designs then ended up liking them after using and carrying them (cough Freestyle cough) that while I may have some preconceived notions about the usefulness of a tool, I always keep an open mind about it.  It's fine if you don't think you are interested, but my curiosity drives me to the point where I want to try the new tools, and I really want them to work.

Maybe it's because of that cheapo Benchmark that I have played with often that I see more potential in the Baton series, but I have to say they may just be something interesting and new in an unfamiliar package, and I would hate to shoot them down simply because they are different.

Def
Did that with the Signal. Still hate the plastic bits, but apart from that it is great.

I'm going to get the Q4. Don't really think it is all that expensive. I mean between the bits, the ratchet, the sheath and the R&D, new production line etc... it seems not that expensive to me.

Emergency Kit: Ovo Sport, chocolate, cheese, crispbread and a coin
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #83 on: January 23, 2017, 05:00:13 PM »
I have poopoo-ed enough new designs then ended up liking them after using and carrying them (cough Freestyle cough) that while I may have some preconceived notions about the usefulness of a tool, I always keep an open mind about it.  It's fine if you don't think you are interested, but my curiosity drives me to the point where I want to try the new tools, and I really want them to work.

Maybe it's because of that cheapo Benchmark that I have played with often that I see more potential in the Baton series, but I have to say they may just be something interesting and new in an unfamiliar package, and I would hate to shoot them down simply because they are different.

Def

I don't mind different. I like different, but only if the differences yield improvements without screwing up the design elsewhere, and offering a good functional return for the cost outlay. If the differences offer no benefit other than marketting, and sacrifice functionality, ergonomics, or value, they deserve calling out.

I'm also prepared to be proved wrong on these.

The Batons are indeed innovative in style, and on many (though not all) of the functions seem quite ergonomic. I don't think those differences are enough to justify those prices though. Functional worth doesn't seem to tally with the cost.

The Sync has two positive design aspects, and a few negative. The small pliers/long handles idea is a great concept. The carry system is innovative, and may well be attractive to some people. the carry options bump the price up though, and the cost of making it belt buckle shape is primarily ergonomics. Those castings still concern me too, as does the retention pluger at the pivot.

PowerAccess is a real winner from a design perspective, annoyingly let down on ergonomics (potentially) through no reason other than styling. Making a tool uncomfortable so that is looks nicer, is not a good trade off. Otherwise great effort!

The PowerGrab is a total smurf up in too many other ways to bother mentioning any positives. Lock releases, tool location, duplication, and whatever else annoyed me. It's that bad it's not even worth me remembering why it's bad.

Quality is a different issue, and time will tell on that one. Again, these are all just initial thoughts, which may or may not be relevant to final product.


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 57,614 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #84 on: January 23, 2017, 08:27:10 PM »

I don't mind different. I like different, but only if the differences don't actually change anything.


Fixed that for you... :D

Sorry, I couldn't help it.  You are absolutely right though- the changes are only good if they are sensible, and your points earlier are absolutely valid.  All I am saying is that if they don't try new things, how will we know if they are any good or not?  This is not nearly as radical a departure form the norm as others have in the past, like the Coleman Pro Lock or CRKT Flux that tried component based loadouts, or the Gerber Fit that looked like it belonged on the cover of an 80's mix tape.





Maybe some of the Batons will sink, maybe they all will.  I don't know, but at least I can see the logic in their design and I am looking forward to trying them out.  :D

Def

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Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #85 on: January 23, 2017, 09:53:40 PM »

I don't mind different. I like different, but only if the differences don't actually change anything.


Fixed that for you... :D

Sorry, I couldn't help it.  You are absolutely right though- the changes are only good if they are sensible, and your points earlier are absolutely valid.  All I am saying is that if they don't try new things, how will we know if they are any good or not?  This is not nearly as radical a departure form the norm as others have in the past, like the Coleman Pro Lock or CRKT Flux that tried component based loadouts, or the Gerber Fit that looked like it belonged on the cover of an 80's mix tape.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Maybe some of the Batons will sink, maybe they all will.  I don't know, but at least I can see the logic in their design and I am looking forward to trying them out.  :D

Def

 :D

And I look forward to seeing the reviews  ;)

I'm not going to knock a company simply for trying something new, but some of the design faux pas that we see from time to time (or to be brutally honest, too smurfing often), are the kind of errors or shortfalls in thinking that you would expect from someone making their first soiree into multitools.

When someone who has been making multitools for over a decade, and has shortfalls that a numpty like me can spot in 10 seconds, they're doing it wrong and deserve a wedgie! It doesn't matter if it's SOG, Leatherman, Gerber, Victorinox (CRKT I can forgive to an extent, as they've never really got the hang of making multitools), they really should have gotten to grasp with the concepts of ergonomics, cost vs value, the basic design essentials (minimum parameters) for each function offered, and fully scrutinised process control in terms of quality, and ensuring there's no loss of meaning or misinterpretation from design to final product.


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 57,614 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #86 on: January 23, 2017, 10:34:20 PM »
I agree for sure.  Of course, when a manufacturer gets too far out of line we have to confront them on it.... that's what we are here for, to tread on designs that are all about hype and short on function....

Def

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Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #87 on: January 23, 2017, 10:59:33 PM »
 :P :D


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #88 on: June 04, 2017, 11:35:51 PM »
The Sync 1 and 2, are for me starting to stray a little further into the "novelty gadget" realm.

Firstly, there's the carry method. Some people might really like the idea of a smurfing big belt buckle that can be detatched and used as a tool. Some people might not! I suspect that the polarisation here will be somewhat parallel to thos who like or don't like the look of the Leatherman Tread.

The next thing that struck me was the short pliers and long handles all folding up into a small package. That's clever! The fact that it's an open webbed investment cast construction, is less clever. Here's the thing with castings - they are great under compression, and crap in tension. Yes, some can have improved ductility through smart chemical composition and heat treatment - I have been involved in a number of projects involving centrifugally cast pipe - but generally speaking tensile forces on castings are to be avoided at all costs.

Why are you saying this Al? Where are the tensile forces?

Let's look at the pliers again. When gripping something with the pliers, the extra handle length and short jaws will in theory really let you get a good gripping force. If you give someone that opportunity, they WILL use it. Working from the plier pivot back down the handles, the arm will want to bend due to the forces applied - hopefully it will be rigid enough not to. However, as that wants to bend, the inside is subject to compression forces, and the outside is subject to tension.

Now look at the tool closed up. The part that will be in tension, I reduced in thickness so that it partially fits inside the other handle part and reduces the closed profile.

Did you spot it yet?

The thinnest part of the casting - which doesn't like tensile forces - is the bit that's under tension. The part that is thickest, doesn't need to be. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that just either side of the centre triangle on the outer edge of the handles are potential fracture points (barring casting defects elsewhere). This might not happen straight away if the casting has been carefully considered at a metallurgical level, but could still be prone to fatigue in these areas.

I see this as potentially being a bigger problem than the hollow plier pivot (a frequent chunter of mine) which enables the engagement plunger to lock the tool into the belt buckle. I can't really make two many presumptions about that, as it's not clear as to how much metal may have been removed to accommodate plunger and spring.

Also, why the smurf do tools this small need locks?

And, why the smurf are the locks on the blade and scissors which shouldn't be subject to axial loads, and the drivers which WILL be subject to axial loads are the lock releases.

AND the form factor of using any of these smaller, unnecessarily locking components looks awkward and uncomfortable.

This tool looks to me like it was designed by marketting people not toolmakers. Target audience is definitely people who don't often buy and use tools - let's call them "Dad gifts" from family members.

I have been guilty in the past of ruthlessly criticising multitools that I have seen online, without even handling one of them.

Today, I had the opportunity to appraise both of these tools close up. I feel totally justified in my original appraisal, and the only new thing that I would add, is that the ergonomics (particularly on the larger version) are even worse than I expected.

I shall therefore continue to criticise tools that I haven't handled yet, as I seem to be fairly good at it  :whistle:

 :D


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,256 Firm believer of Sturgeon's Law
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #89 on: June 15, 2017, 09:47:09 PM »
review I found today, more of a first looks but anyway...


My toys:

MTs: Surge (2x), Skeletool (2x), Rebar, ST300, Kick, Blast, Fuse, Micra (2x), Squirt (3x), Core, Wave, Wingman, Crunch, Mini, Spirit (3x), MP600, Pro Scout, MP700, MP800, Diesel, Powerlock, PowerPlier (2x), PocketPowerPlier (2x), Blacktip (3x), ST6 (2x), 5WR, A100

SAKs:Waiter, Mountaineer, Bantam, Executive, Ambassador, Rambler, Minichamp, Classic SD, Champion, Handyman, Farmer, Explorer, Swisschamp (2x), OHO Soldier, Golf Tool, Wenger S557, 14, Champ, EVO 52, Pocket Tool Chest

 

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