"Officier Suisse" means "Official Swiss" or "Swiss Officer"?

GoatDragon · **on:** July 25, 2017, 11:07:42 PM

And is there any reason some models have it and some do not? Is there something more officer related in the history of my 84mm cadet with that tang stamp than my 93mm pioneer with out it?

Just something I have been wondering about SAKs for a while.

pfrsantos · **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2017, 11:12:15 PM

I think it has something to do with the time of production and maybe with the models. Some were meant for officers, other were more widely accessible...

BleaKrytE · **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2017, 11:21:35 PM

I'm pretty sure it means Swiss Army... Kinda sure, actually.

GoatDragon · **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2017, 11:32:06 PM

Quote from: BleaKrytE on July 25, 2017, 11:21:35 PM

I'm pretty sure it means Swiss Army... Kinda sure, actually.

"Suisse" obviously means "Swiss". So how the heck does "Officier " translate to "Army"?

twiliter · **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2017, 11:41:39 PM

It means Swiss officer in French. Read up on the origins here >> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Army_knife

twiliter · **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2017, 11:46:23 PM

AFAIK the Swiss Officer's Knife is a designation only for the 91mm and 84mm models.

in_sympathy · **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2017, 12:02:47 AM

Quote from: GoatDragon on July 25, 2017, 11:32:06 PM

Quote from: BleaKrytE on July 25, 2017, 11:21:35 PM
I'm pretty sure it means Swiss Army... Kinda sure, actually.

"Suisse" obviously means "Swiss". So how the heck does "Officier " translate to "Army"?

Made my day 🤣🤣🤣

GoatDragon · **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2017, 10:17:45 AM

Quote from: alexanderre on July 26, 2017, 12:02:47 AM

Quote from: GoatDragon on July 25, 2017, 11:32:06 PM
Quote from: BleaKrytE on July 25, 2017, 11:21:35 PM
I'm pretty sure it means Swiss Army... Kinda sure, actually.

"Suisse" obviously means "Swiss". So how the heck does "Officier " translate to "Army"?

Made my day 🤣🤣🤣

So if you plug Officier Suisse into google translate it translates to Swiss Officer. No surprise there. But plug Offiziersmesser in and it actually translates into "Army Knives". The weird part is if you put a space in between the words and translate Offiziers messer it changes to "Officer's Knife".

So depending on the spacing, a word that sounds like "officer" can actually translate into "army". Granted this is in German, and "Officier Suisse" is French, but still. It does open op the possibility that "Officier Suisse" could translate into "Swiss Army".

Or something like that...

Edit: hehe I said but plug.

Corwyn · **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2017, 10:30:11 AM

Officier Suisse means Swiss Officer and is on the 91mm and 85mm ones as they are based on the old Officer's knife (corkscrew and such)

Alox and 111mm are based on the Soldier's knife so they don't have it (they are bigger and beefier).

Steinar · **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2017, 10:44:47 AM

The translations are correct, but “Offizier” in German does mean “Officer” in English, it's just magic of compounds. “Offiziersmesser” in German is the term for army Knives, as in (Swiss) army knives, while with a space it becomes a knife owned by an officer (albeit missing an apostrophe for correct German syntax, but Google Translate tries to be helpful). So it's no change in the meaning of the word “Offizier”, just the meaning of the compound as a whole. For an English example, consider “skinhead”, which you could translate to another language as for instance “right wing extremist”, but “skin” does not mean “right wing” and “head” certainly does not mean “extremist”.

AlephZero · **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2017, 04:28:49 PM

Do remember that users can "help" Google Translate to translate "better" by adding their own translations, which could be
the reason for "Offiziersmesser" translating to "army knives" in this case.

GoatDragon · **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2017, 07:37:42 PM

Quote from: Corwyn on July 26, 2017, 10:30:11 AM

Officier Suisse means Swiss Officer and is on the 91mm and 85mm ones as they are based on the old Officer's knife (corkscrew and such)

Alox and 111mm are based on the Soldier's knife so they don't have it (they are bigger and beefier).

Ahh, that makes sense!
The soldiers got the beefy 93mm and 111mm models because they were out in the field doing real work, while the officers got the smaller 84mm and 91mm versions because they got to hang out in town and drink wine.
I feel like I understand Swiss Army Knives so much better now!

GoatDragon · **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2017, 07:39:40 PM

Quote from: Steinar on July 26, 2017, 10:44:47 AM

The translations are correct, but “Offizier” in German does mean “Officer” in English, it's just magic of compounds. “Offiziersmesser” in German is the term for army Knives, as in (Swiss) army knives, while with a space it becomes a knife owned by an officer (albeit missing an apostrophe for correct German syntax, but Google Translate tries to be helpful). So it's no change in the meaning of the word “Offizier”, just the meaning of the compound as a whole. For an English example, consider “skinhead”, which you could translate to another language as for instance “right wing extremist”, but “skin” does not mean “right wing” and “head” certainly does not mean “extremist”.

A most excellent explanation of the idiosyncrasies of language. Thank you!