Vic Ranger for Bushcraft

[israelpiper]

Probably a very old story, but I have been comparing Vics for bushcrafting. I usually take my LM Surge, plus a Vic. The forestry rules in Israel are strict. We've gone from less than 1% forested, to approaching 10%, in 116 years of planting. In an arid country that is three-fifths desert. No fires except in designated public fire areas. But small fuel tablet fires for coffee is OK if not on fire alert. 

Personal use from natural forest branch and tree fall is OK, and any removal of potential fuel load lessens fire risk. So plenty for bushcrafters. But no cutting down of living trees. So that means that the Vic saws are excellent. As are some MT saws. My 130mm Rangerwood 55 is a dream.

But I tested a few 91mm models. Ranger,  Huntsman, and Camper. All with saws, regular and pen blades, and all the usual kit.

●Ranger has file, chisel, scissors as well.
●Huntsman has scissors but no file or chisel.
●Camper has no file or scissors or chisel.

The Surge has nearly all of that, one might say. And locking tools to boot. However,  I love the feel of the Vic 91mm in my hand for light bushcraft. Say making a camp stool or chair, or a small shelf. The heavier awl is useful. Sometimes I grip a branch with the Surge while carving on it with my Vic. Great combo.

I don't us the file hugely, but I discovered that finer  bushcrafting can use a small, aggressive file. And ditto the small chisel.  My verdict is that the Vic Ranger file has been more useful than the Surge file. Better, and feels easy for delicate work. Surge diamond file is not bad for light touch-up of blades if one keeps a light touch and doesn't take off metal perceptibly.

So my current perfect bushcraft kit is the Vic Ranger and the LM Surge. I can build a small rain-proof hut in no time. Give me a day, voilà a bed, stool, shelf/table too. Ugly as sin, but up there with prehistoric man 10-20,000~ years ago.

Cheers All!

(Haven't figured out the photo uploading answer yet...)

[pomsbz]

Do you have a link for the specific fire/bushcraft rules here? I'd be interested as I've never seen anything more official than 'don't be an idiot!' I have an Emberlit Fireant and have used it but specifically with open sky overhead and around. Do you think that's following the rules?

[styx]

The only question that remains is can you build a saddle to ride a sabertooth cat to battle?

Other than that, really nice write up

[sergemaster]

Amici,
Just as long as you have the bush craft skill set, any SAK, fixed, or folding blade will do the user just fine. With only a tanto being a possible exception . 

Cheers,
Serge

[styx]

Amici,
Just as long as you have the bush craft skill set, any SAK, fixed, or folding blade will do the user just fine. With only a tanto being a possible exception . 

Cheers,
Serge

Hawkbill/karambit?

[Barry Rowland]

I'm going to try this combo out on my next overnight hike... sounds great to me!  I'd love to backpack Israel!!

[Poncho65]

Great write-up The Ranger was my favorite SAK So much my favorite that I made a mod that pretty well just added the Phillips and mag layer then swapped the small blade for an in-line awl I carry this SAK everyday

[israelpiper]

Do you have a link for the specific fire/bushcraft rules here? I'd be interested as I've never seen anything more official than 'don't be an idiot!' I have an Emberlit Fireant and have used it but specifically with open sky overhead and around. Do you think that's following the rules?

The Keren Kayemet קרן קימת לישראל forester can and does function like nature police. Yes, DON'T BE AN IDIOT is the rule. I've never seen an actual full guide. Just statements in context here and there. Such as environmental behaviour on the Israel National Trail שביל ישראל in guide books. But go the Keren Kayemet Web site and they give you a good idea of the rules. In fact less strict about many details, but deadly serious about fire.

The Parks Authority also posts rules online. Not everything online is translated.

Personal videos by Israelis and foreigners who have hiked the 1200 kilometer Israel National Trail also reveal the ins and outs, if not systematically.

Guy Sirossi's bushcraft הישרדות videos are great. גאי והר. Only in Hebrew. He is big on knife craft, and fond of SAKs. 

Personally I prefer late autumn to early spring for being out. Summer dramatically increases water requirements. Almost need a pack mule. Lots of great natural herbals to make from natural growth.

I take a few short lengths of wire to close up any fence cuts I might make, though this is rare. Barbed wire is a factor though. And don't pound tent pegs into old mines!

Main bushcrafter rule: Only cut what you need; leave only your footprints behind.

[israelpiper]

I'm going to try this combo out on my next overnight hike... sounds great to me!  I'd love to backpack Israel!!

Look up the ISRAEL NATIONAL TRAIL online. There is English information.

1200 kilometers north to south.

Absolutely no carrying of knives for defensive purposes on the trail. Despite what you may hear, Israel is a safe country.  Our rate of violence,  normal societal, criminal and terrorist together is still much lower than America. So a non-locking SAK for tourists only. Up to 10cm.

Hope you get here someday. Lots of short and long hikes in varied landscapes.

[israelpiper]

The only question that remains is can you build a saddle to ride a sabertooth cat to battle?

Other than that, really nice write up

Saddle? Who needs a saddle? Lean forward and grab a tooth!

[pomsbz]

Do you have a link for the specific fire/bushcraft rules here? I'd be interested as I've never seen anything more official than 'don't be an idiot!' I have an Emberlit Fireant and have used it but specifically with open sky overhead and around. Do you think that's following the rules?

The Keren Kayemet קרן קימת לישראל forester can and does function like nature police. Yes, DON'T BE AN IDIOT is the rule. I've never seen an actual full guide. Just statements in context here and there. Such as environmental behaviour on the Israel National Trail שביל ישראל in guide books. But go the Keren Kayemet Web site and they give you a good idea of the rules. In fact less strict about many details, but deadly serious about fire.

The Parks Authority also posts rules online. Not everything online is translated.

Personal videos by Israelis and foreigners who have hiked the 1200 kilometer Israel National Trail also reveal the ins and outs, if not systematically.

Guy Sirossi's bushcraft הישרדות videos are great. גאי והר. Only in Hebrew. He is big on knife craft, and fond of SAKs. 

Personally I prefer late autumn to early spring for being out. Summer dramatically increases water requirements. Almost need a pack mule. Lots of great natural herbals to make from natural growth.

I take a few short lengths of wire to close up any fence cuts I might make, though this is rare. Barbed wire is a factor though. And don't pound tent pegs into old mines!

Main bushcrafter rule: Only cut what you need; leave only your footprints behind.

I do follow Guy's channel. Thanks!

I will take issue with your comment on knife legality. Carrying a fixie or a locking knife is legal if you can provide a good reason other than self defence. Hiking would be such a reason. I've looked into the law extensively and Guy makes this clear on his channel*. Thankfully both leatherman and victorinox are so ubiquitous that they are ignored by security for the most part. What he also comments on often is the lack of necessity of most of the knife equipment usually seen on US bushcraft channels for hiking here. Those big battoning choppers, really unnecessary.

I agree with you on time of year! Autumn or Spring is perfect here. Right now, no way.

Yeah forest fires. A fire a couple of years ago here in Jerusalem got within 50m of my apartment. I've seen two fires here just this summer. It's very hot, gets very dry and people are uneducated as we see with deaths and injury on the trail .

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzHpS1fm-5g (hebrew only I'm afraid)

[Smashie]

Interesting that this thread came up, I just got a couple of books that Vic have just released in English. The knife they recommend for Bushcraft are the 111mm and 130mm.









I haven't really started with the book yet, I'm looking for interesting things for the cubs and scouts to do.

The other one is this and has some fun little projects in that turn knife skills in to something interesting.

[styx]

The only question that remains is can you build a saddle to ride a sabertooth cat to battle?

Other than that, really nice write up

Saddle? Who needs a saddle? Lean forward and grab a tooth!

not sure that would work

[pomsbz]

The only question that remains is can you build a saddle to ride a sabertooth cat to battle?

Other than that, really nice write up

Saddle? Who needs a saddle? Lean forward and grab a tooth!

not sure that would work

OK, grab both teeth then. Sheesh! 

[styx]

The only question that remains is can you build a saddle to ride a sabertooth cat to battle?

Other than that, really nice write up

Saddle? Who needs a saddle? Lean forward and grab a tooth!

not sure that would work

OK, grab both teeth then. Sheesh! 

And grow a third hand to hold the spear

[pomsbz]

The only question that remains is can you build a saddle to ride a sabertooth cat to battle?

Other than that, really nice write up

Saddle? Who needs a saddle? Lean forward and grab a tooth!

not sure that would work

OK, grab both teeth then. Sheesh! 

And grow a third hand to hold the spear

Real men hold their spears between their teeth while riding saber toothed tigers.

[Aloha]

Interesting that this thread came up, I just got a couple of books that Vic have just released in English. The knife they recommend for Bushcraft are the 111mm and 130mm.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

I haven't really started with the book yet, I'm looking for interesting things for the cubs and scouts to do.

The other one is this and has some fun little projects in that turn knife skills in to something interesting.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Interesting that this thread came up, I just got a couple of books that Vic have just released in English. The knife they recommend for Bushcraft are the 111mm and 130mm.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

I haven't really started with the book yet, I'm looking for interesting things for the cubs and scouts to do.

The other one is this and has some fun little projects in that turn knife skills in to something interesting.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

 

 

[israelpiper]

Do you have a link for the specific fire/bushcraft rules here? I'd be interested as I've never seen anything more official than 'don't be an idiot!' I have an Emberlit Fireant and have used it but specifically with open sky overhead and around. Do you think that's following the rules?

The Keren Kayemet קרן קימת לישראל forester can and does function like nature police. Yes, DON'T BE AN IDIOT is the rule. I've never seen an actual full guide. Just statements in context here and there. Such as environmental behaviour on the Israel National Trail שביל ישראל in guide books. But go the Keren Kayemet Web site and they give you a good idea of the rules. In fact less strict about many details, but deadly serious about fire.

The Parks Authority also posts rules online. Not everything online is translated.

Personal videos by Israelis and foreigners who have hiked the 1200 kilometer Israel National Trail also reveal the ins and outs, if not systematically.

Guy Sirossi's bushcraft הישרדות videos are great. גאי והר. Only in Hebrew. He is big on knife craft, and fond of SAKs. 

Personally I prefer late autumn to early spring for being out. Summer dramatically increases water requirements. Almost need a pack mule. Lots of great natural herbals to make from natural growth.

I take a few short lengths of wire to close up any fence cuts I might make, though this is rare. Barbed wire is a factor though. And don't pound tent pegs into old mines!

Main bushcrafter rule: Only cut what you need; leave only your footprints behind.

I do follow Guy's channel. Thanks!

I will take issue with your comment on knife legality. Carrying a fixie or a locking knife is legal if you can provide a good reason other than self defence. Hiking would be such a reason. I've looked into the law extensively and Guy makes this clear on his channel*. Thankfully both leatherman and victorinox are so ubiquitous that they are ignored by security for the most part. What he also comments on often is the lack of necessity of most of the knife equipment usually seen on US bushcraft channels for hiking here. Those big battoning choppers, really unnecessary.

I agree with you on time of year! Autumn or Spring is perfect here. Right now, no way.

Yeah forest fires. A fire a couple of years ago here in Jerusalem got within 50m of my apartment. I've seen two fires here just this summer. It's very hot, gets very dry and people are uneducated as we see with deaths and injury on the trail .

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzHpS1fm-5g (hebrew only I'm afraid)

Israel's knife laws, as written, make all locking knives "fixed blades" for the purpose of the law. Just like the UK and Australia, and other countries, the issue is "good reason."  But the biggest issue is how the police act in fact. My long experience is excellent. I used to live in central Galilee, in Karmiel. I would walk for 15 or 18 minutes through town with a Norwegian Helle sheath knife. Only once an officer asked about it, wanted to see it, how much it cost, and if it was available in Israel.

I know that all locking multi tools or locking SAKs are de facto accepted,  but technically can be a problem. Technically but few police ever care if you are not exhibiting any questionable behaviour.  What they are concerned about is WHO has a knife. Though I hasten to say the terror knifings are 99% of the time done with mama's kitchen knife.

The police do frown on the larger so-called tactical folders with assisted opening.  One of my students was in a big park in Jerusalem with his family. They had a large watermelon.  His mother pulled out a tactical flipper to cut the melon. A police man confiscated the knife, duly wrote up a warning, explained knife law, gave her a copy of the confiscation report, and that was that.

So for outsiders I they they must know the law as it stands. In truth wearing a sheath knife on trail is almost never going to be a problem.  But you never know once you enter a gray zone.

I worked with goats in Upper Galilee,  including taking them out to wild pasture. Often I'd forget if I went into town that I had a knife or multi tool. Leatherman were new here. Metal detectors always buzzed. I'd take it out and open it up. The guards would be curious, but thought it was a folding pliers.  Now many police carry a multi tool. They are very popular in the armoured corps. Especially the Surge.

Anyway, for foreigners hiking here, stick to the Ranger or similar. If you can do the schmooze, great. You can argue with police here usually. They are generally just normal men and women.

Police discretion is used well here. My knife friends in Britain and Australia do not fare as well.

[israelpiper]

Interesting that this thread came up, I just got a couple of books that Vic have just released in English. The knife they recommend for Bushcraft are the 111mm and 130mm.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

I haven't really started with the book yet, I'm looking for interesting things for the cubs and scouts to do.

The other one is this and has some fun little projects in that turn knife skills in to something interesting.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

On my list to order. Thanks for reminding me. 

[styx]

The only question that remains is can you build a saddle to ride a sabertooth cat to battle?

Other than that, really nice write up

Saddle? Who needs a saddle? Lean forward and grab a tooth!

not sure that would work

OK, grab both teeth then. Sheesh! 

And grow a third hand to hold the spear

Real men hold their spears between their teeth while riding saber toothed tigers.

that is where the knife goes

[Zhenchok]

I've hiked a few places in Israel, beautiful country and people! Am Israel Chai


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pomsbz]

Do you have a link for the specific fire/bushcraft rules here? I'd be interested as I've never seen anything more official than 'don't be an idiot!' I have an Emberlit Fireant and have used it but specifically with open sky overhead and around. Do you think that's following the rules?

The Keren Kayemet קרן קימת לישראל forester can and does function like nature police. Yes, DON'T BE AN IDIOT is the rule. I've never seen an actual full guide. Just statements in context here and there. Such as environmental behaviour on the Israel National Trail שביל ישראל in guide books. But go the Keren Kayemet Web site and they give you a good idea of the rules. In fact less strict about many details, but deadly serious about fire.

The Parks Authority also posts rules online. Not everything online is translated.

Personal videos by Israelis and foreigners who have hiked the 1200 kilometer Israel National Trail also reveal the ins and outs, if not systematically.

Guy Sirossi's bushcraft הישרדות videos are great. גאי והר. Only in Hebrew. He is big on knife craft, and fond of SAKs. 

Personally I prefer late autumn to early spring for being out. Summer dramatically increases water requirements. Almost need a pack mule. Lots of great natural herbals to make from natural growth.

I take a few short lengths of wire to close up any fence cuts I might make, though this is rare. Barbed wire is a factor though. And don't pound tent pegs into old mines!

Main bushcrafter rule: Only cut what you need; leave only your footprints behind.

I do follow Guy's channel. Thanks!

I will take issue with your comment on knife legality. Carrying a fixie or a locking knife is legal if you can provide a good reason other than self defence. Hiking would be such a reason. I've looked into the law extensively and Guy makes this clear on his channel*. Thankfully both leatherman and victorinox are so ubiquitous that they are ignored by security for the most part. What he also comments on often is the lack of necessity of most of the knife equipment usually seen on US bushcraft channels for hiking here. Those big battoning choppers, really unnecessary.

I agree with you on time of year! Autumn or Spring is perfect here. Right now, no way.

Yeah forest fires. A fire a couple of years ago here in Jerusalem got within 50m of my apartment. I've seen two fires here just this summer. It's very hot, gets very dry and people are uneducated as we see with deaths and injury on the trail .

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzHpS1fm-5g (hebrew only I'm afraid)

Israel's knife laws, as written, make all locking knives "fixed blades" for the purpose of the law. Just like the UK and Australia, and other countries, the issue is "good reason."  But the biggest issue is how the police act in fact. My long experience is excellent. I used to live in central Galilee, in Karmiel. I would walk for 15 or 18 minutes through town with a Norwegian Helle sheath knife. Only once an officer asked about it, wanted to see it, how much it cost, and if it was available in Israel.

I know that all locking multi tools or locking SAKs are de facto accepted,  but technically can be a problem. Technically but few police ever care if you are not exhibiting any questionable behaviour.  What they are concerned about is WHO has a knife. Though I hasten to say the terror knifings are 99% of the time done with mama's kitchen knife.

The police do frown on the larger so-called tactical folders with assisted opening.  One of my students was in a big park in Jerusalem with his family. They had a large watermelon.  His mother pulled out a tactical flipper to cut the melon. A police man confiscated the knife, duly wrote up a warning, explained knife law, gave her a copy of the confiscation report, and that was that.

So for outsiders I they they must know the law as it stands. In truth wearing a sheath knife on trail is almost never going to be a problem.  But you never know once you enter a gray zone.

I worked with goats in Upper Galilee,  including taking them out to wild pasture. Often I'd forget if I went into town that I had a knife or multi tool. Leatherman were new here. Metal detectors always buzzed. I'd take it out and open it up. The guards would be curious, but thought it was a folding pliers.  Now many police carry a multi tool. They are very popular in the armoured corps. Especially the Surge.

Anyway, for foreigners hiking here, stick to the Ranger or similar. If you can do the schmooze, great. You can argue with police here usually. They are generally just normal men and women.

Police discretion is used well here. My knife friends in Britain and Australia do not fare as well.

Well written Sir!