Wheelchair Accessible - Ben's thread

[pomsbz]

I wonder what you'd say about Firebox Nano after this experience. Same conclusions or is it just a gimmick?

I like it. It solves some of the problems with the Fireant for the same footprint and can be used as a wind shield for a gas burner. I love solutions with dual usage. I also think the wood entrance solution is better thought out and the removable base allows you to avoid the  'too much coals' problem.

Would I buy it? Meh. Not right now. It's a better design but it's 40 bucks.

to be fair, I don't see the allure of most packable woodstoves for their given price

Hence the chinese knockoffs for a fraction of the price. These stoves are really priced at double what they should be. Hard to justify that when you can buy it for a quarter off aliexpress.

-i'm sure that manufacturers wouldn't agree, but I do

Thing is, something like the esbit. It's a design from 1936, made for the Wehrmacht, it's not under patent any more. If I have the choice of $2 from Hong Kong or $10 from the original manufacturer, I don't feel any reason not to get the cheap one.

I'm currently thinking of a way to use the esbit as a wood burner in conjunction with the fire lighters it carries anyway. I'll try it out next week if I get the chance.

[styx]

I wonder what you'd say about Firebox Nano after this experience. Same conclusions or is it just a gimmick?

I like it. It solves some of the problems with the Fireant for the same footprint and can be used as a wind shield for a gas burner. I love solutions with dual usage. I also think the wood entrance solution is better thought out and the removable base allows you to avoid the  'too much coals' problem.

Would I buy it? Meh. Not right now. It's a better design but it's 40 bucks.

to be fair, I don't see the allure of most packable woodstoves for their given price

Hence the chinese knockoffs for a fraction of the price. These stoves are really priced at double what they should be. Hard to justify that when you can buy it for a quarter off aliexpress.

-i'm sure that manufacturers wouldn't agree, but I do

Thing is, something like the esbit. It's a design from 1936, made for the Wehrmacht, it's not under patent any more. If I have the choice of $2 from Hong Kong or $10 from the original manufacturer, I don't feel any reason not to get the cheap one.

I'm currently thinking of a way to use the esbit as a wood burner in conjunction with the fire lighters it carries anyway. I'll try it out next week if I get the chance.

there you're 100% right. I'm thinking of newer designs like the Emberlit line up and Firebox. their manufacturers would probably take issue with us going the cheaper route. but then again, that's how most would probably react

[pomsbz]

About time I started eating healthily in work again. Oh and the Pruner is back in the pouch. Man but it's nice to cut with!

[pomsbz]

So I got some outside time today and decided to try out the Esbit stove using wood. The idea being that it stores a bunch of firestarter cubes inside which can then be used, requiring only a tiny bit at a time, to quickly get the stove working with wood.



OK so here are my findings. It works and it's easy enough to get lit and keep lit. I stocked it up inside with twigs and then fed more in as time went on. However. It is a very slow way to cook and required constant maintenance. Non stop in fact. It would have been easier perhaps if I could have used longer sticks and just moved them in as they burnt but that grass was very dry indeed so I'd had to use the stove on a stone and the longer sticks just fell out.



I have to be honest at this point. I can cook using wood stoves. I can get them alight using a firesteel alone (as I did today). But. I'm going to leave it as a backup option. A gas canister with a small and cheap burner cooks far faster, cleaner, more evenly and predictably, with almost no maintenance and packs up cleanly and immediately when you've finished using it. Yes it's bulky but it doesn't weight all that much. By all means stick a folding wood stove in your bag, they're under $10 on ebay for the bigger ones and $3 for the Esbit style. However, if you intend to use them on route to your location, when you are hungry or don't want to be working for half an hour just to heat up your small lunch on the trail, do yourself a favour and just use gas. Not as cool, not as minimalist, not as rugged but hey, just my opinion.

While I was struggling with the Esbit today I thought that it would have been far easier to build a 'n' shaped stove of rocks and just build the fire in that. I could have far better access, have put far more wood in and probably would have been able to cook considerably faster. The only problem would have been the small diameter of the pot. It would however have meant that I wouldn't have needed the wood stove at all. I think I'll try that next time.

[pomsbz]

I think I've finally found 100g butane canisters here, woohoo! Only thing is it's in another city and they don't seem to do shipping. Groan.

[Aloha]

I really like using the gas canisters for outdoor cooking.  Fast and simple and it does pack decently enough for me.  With stoves that require wood, pellets, or similar type combustibles I'd just as well build a small fire pit and cook directly on top.  I do like my little trangia liquid fuel stove BUT cooking times are relatively short. 

Glad you to see you got out.  Looks like a nice location     

[pomsbz]

I really like using the gas canisters for outdoor cooking.  Fast and simple and it does pack decently enough for me.  With stoves that require wood, pellets, or similar type combustibles I'd just as well build a small fire pit and cook directly on top.  I do like my little trangia liquid fuel stove BUT cooking times are relatively short. 

Glad you to see you got out.  Looks like a nice location     

Thanks for confirming my idea about the fire pit!

Keeping what I wrote above, the wood stove as backup, I thought to myself that I already had a fire kit in my bag, currently in an old tobacco tin. How about if I just made the Esbit a firekit tin instead? Kill two birds with one stone.

Here was the original kit:



and here is the 'esbit kit'.



It now contains windproof matches, a mini bic, 4 cubes of firelighter and a whole bunch of thick waxed jute. Oh and it's a stove! What is noticeably not in there is a firesteel. I've got about 4 mini bics in my pack in various compartments plus one always in my pocket and a bunch of weatherproof matches in the bag as well. To be frank when I can have a lighter or matches, I don't quite see the point of a firesteel for real world use, at least not where I'm going.  Like the wood stove, it's fun to be able to use and useful to learn perhaps but I don't feel I need it in my kit.

[styx]

yea the alcohol stoves are nice but they don't last long if you're really cooking and not just heating up water.
Since you're experimenting with wood stoves, have you heard of the Ikea stove? it falls under the DIY mantle of stoves. it is just a cutlery caddy that is modified to a degree (a lot of variations out there), but it is light and fairly inexpensive

[Aloha]

The Ikea stove is neat.  I think I recall a SS water bottle fitting inside as well  .



I like the esbit kit  .  I really like your waxed jute, I though it was waxed wool or something.  I like having a fire steel but like you I will always have a lighter or 2.  I have some storm matches as well but my lighter is what I use when I'm not messing about.  My canister stove has a piezo ignition which works great.  I have also shot a spark and lit the stove too.

   

 

[pomsbz]

Problem with the ikea stove (I have two of them but they're currently in use in the kitchen as designed  ) is that it's bulky and heavy compared to the folding wood stoves. You could carry a 450g gas stove for that bulk, that's 5 plus hours of cooking.

[pomsbz]

My next thoughts are on the subject of a wind shield. Below is a stock picture of the one I have.



You see these everywhere. They're cheap, fold up flat and although rather large still in the pack, don't take up much room because they're so flat. Weight is ok. Not great but ok. The problem with them is the height. I have to explain. When it is up and open like in the above picture, if there is a breeze, such as the kind which requires it in the first place, it simply blows around, either into your pot which falls off the gas and spills all your nice food or it blows away from the pot and usually ends up falling flat down on the ground. The designer was aware of this problem and there is a clip at the top which can be used to clip the two sides together to make a full circle and stop it blowing around like a big wind sail. When the clip is done up however you have to reach directly down to stir your food which is uncomfortable and can lead to steam burns and if your pot has a handle like mine shown above, the sides won't close.

I think the solution is either this mini version of the above: https://www.ebay.com/itm/262906835072 which is considerably shorter, or this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/351303663834 This second one does interest me. It's Ti for lighter weight (and I love Ti ) More so, it's been better designed with a cutout specifically for the handle. That said, because it is so flimsy in comparison to the other I'd worry about whether it has the structural rigidity to stay there at all in a breeze. It also has a rather small diameter. My little pots should be ok but anything larger like a frying pan simply won't fit inside. I'm also wondering about just how sharp those edges are. No one needs to slice a finger open in the field when reaching in for a hot pot.

I'd be interested in your thoughts!

[Aloha]

My understand is you don't want to "cover" the fuel canister at all.  There are some specific windscreens that look pretty nice and some DIY versions made from heavy duty foil.  A foldable version of the one in the video would be nice.  This one does what needs to be done without covering the fuel possibly heating it a dangerous level.   

[pomsbz]

My understand is you don't want to "cover" the fuel canister at all.  There are some specific windscreens that look pretty nice and some DIY versions made from heavy duty foil.  A foldable version of the one in the video would be nice.  This one does what needs to be done without covering the fuel possibly heating it a dangerous level.   

Hmmm, does the fuel canister heat up? The heat goes upwards not down. I've never noticed any heat at all in the canister when using the wind shield though perhaps that's due to the open design of the one in the stock picture I showed? I still think it's unlikely. A design like the one you showed would also be very specific to the type of burner used (theirs) due to the height and collar and dare I say, it doesn't particularly shield the actual flame area at all from the looks of it? I'm not hugely persuaded by that model at least.

[pomsbz]

Just had a look at the Optimus version of the one you linked to, better design but would only work with a very specific shape and size of pot (11cm diameter max). I'll keep looking around.

[pomsbz]

I've been reading a bit, apparently the heat thing is a very real problem. Again I'd have to wonder about it being a problem with the original setup I showed. It has plenty air space around it. Question is then about keeping it from blowing around (cause if you close it up the heat problem comes back) and whether the shorter one would be the right solution. The tight round versions like the Ti one I showed are out though, thanks Aloha007!

EDIT I saw someone write about using tent pegs to secure the windshield to the ground. Stick them in around the windshield and it is locked in place. That's a rather good idea actually! Unless of course you're using the tent pegs for your tent at the time.

[styx]

Problem with the ikea stove (I have two of them but they're currently in use in the kitchen as designed  ) is that it's bulky and heavy compared to the folding wood stoves. You could carry a 450g gas stove for that bulk, that's 5 plus hours of cooking.

5 hours is a lot. didn't notice that it was so heavy. it has been showing up on and off again on different light and ultralight sites and forums, so didn't give it much thought

[styx]

I've been reading a bit, apparently the heat thing is a very real problem. Again I'd have to wonder about it being a problem with the original setup I showed. It has plenty air space around it. Question is then about keeping it from blowing around (cause if you close it up the heat problem comes back) and whether the shorter one would be the right solution. The tight round versions like the Ti one I showed are out though, thanks Aloha007!

EDIT I saw someone write about using tent pegs to secure the windshield to the ground. Stick them in around the windshield and it is locked in place. That's a rather good idea actually! Unless of course you're using the tent pegs for your tent at the time.

that's what came to my mind when I was reading your post on the subject.

looking at some of the UL guys out there, many seem to not even bother with a windscreen for gas burning stoves, which is unusual

[pomsbz]

Problem with the ikea stove (I have two of them but they're currently in use in the kitchen as designed  ) is that it's bulky and heavy compared to the folding wood stoves. You could carry a 450g gas stove for that bulk, that's 5 plus hours of cooking.

5 hours is a lot. didn't notice that it was so heavy. it has been showing up on and off again on different light and ultralight sites and forums, so didn't give it much thought

I have to apologise, the smaller of those Ikea stoves is actually lighter than my Emberlit Fireant (by 42g / 1.5oz). I didn't expect that. It's still the bulk factor though. Perhaps if you're carrying a pot of a smaller diameter that can fit in or a water bottle as Aloha007 mentioned. I don't carry either though. You also need the tools to do the mod. It is however a very cheap solution ($2.50!) and I love how much air intake it has compared to most wood stoves! I'll bet that thing works far better than my emberlit. Or do the flames just all go out sideways rather than up? Doesn't seem to from the video above.

[pomsbz]

looking at some of the UL guys out there, many seem to not even bother with a windscreen for gas burning stoves, which is unusual

That's a good point actually. Do we need one? Can we just pull up some rocks around it, use some packs, find a more sheltered spot, etc. Like a lot of this gear, it's there for convenience rather than necessity. To keep you from having to do more traditional things, like people had to do before the present century of camping aids, i.e. make a circle of rocks as a fire pit and put your pot on an open fire, etc.

I bought the smaller version of the one I already have to test out. Was only $5 on ebay.

[pomsbz]

I did a little test today. My Esbit firekit vs the Emberlit Fireant and extra (more complete) firekit.



Yes the Esbit kit is far smaller. But (as my wife reminded me last night, she had been hungry ). It took an hour yesterday to cook a packet of 10 thin hot dogs and 6 eggs with the esbit when using wood as the fuel. Is a backup solution that you don't want to have to use called a solution? I don't remember the fireant even taking anywhere near that long. It's a good future test though.

A little bird in my head keeps saying 'yeah but if you didn't have the metal containers at all you could fit the firekit in a ziplock'.  That would leave me with having to use the firepit solution as a backup solution for a stove though. I'm a bit wary of minimalism as a goal in of itself. By the time I'm computing 100g here or there, I should lose the weight off my stomach first. 

[styx]

A quick google search would indicate that the Ikea stove should be able to house a gas fuel canister. However since most people already use their pots to store those, you're right on the bulk issue

[Aloha]

I think the Ti wind screen you showed does have quite a lot of air flow.  The canister should not get hot enough to explode and it blocks the wind plus allows you to use your current pot.  The video I offered was specific tho I've seen UL guys use heavy duty foil to construct a funnel ( triangle ) shape to block wind. 

My experience is the flame without a wind block dances around instead of being focused on the cooking vessel.  I had posted about my experience and Comis initially mentioned about the dangers of certain type windscreens.  This prompted my search.  Thus far my solution is block the wind using my pack and body "best I can".  I, like you, am interested in a solution. 

Heres is another idea thats DIY
https://thetrek.co/appalachian-trail/diy-pocket-rocket-windscreen/

There are others as you can imagine that could worth testing.  Even tho the front area is open I think it would still be a good option.  Keeping the open area best you can out of the direct line of wind also use your body to deflect. 

This topic comes at a good time.  I'll have to try out a few ideas as well.  I'm no UL hiker but I'd like to keep my stove set up as streamlined as possible.  I wont peel labels off to save weight thats for sure.   

[styx]

The whole UL approach is a bit odd if you ask me. There are amazing ideas, the minimalism is courageous but in some instances things become stupid light and not necessarily well thought out.

A good example are UL packs. Sure they are light but a lot of them won't hold up to being a klutz or a trail that is less than perfectly maintained.
An excellent example is the logic with water bottles and footwear. A usual plastic water bottle is lighter than a Nalgene or just about any other longer term solution, but it is also not as environmentally friendly in the long run even with recycling. And at some point the cost doesn't make sense. Similar thing with footwear that has a limited life

[pomsbz]

The whole UL approach is a bit odd if you ask me. There are amazing ideas, the minimalism is courageous but in some instances things become stupid light and not necessarily well thought out.

A good example are UL packs. Sure they are light but a lot of them won't hold up to being a klutz or a trail that is less than perfectly maintained.
An excellent example is the logic with water bottles and footwear. A usual plastic water bottle is lighter than a Nalgene or just about any other longer term solution, but it is also not as environmentally friendly in the long run even with recycling. And at some point the cost doesn't make sense. Similar thing with footwear that has a limited life

UL is more expensive and a lot more work when using in the field. I suppose it depends on your budget and way you want to live. Do you want to spend all the energy carrying the stuff or using it when you get on location. Comes to the same thing though. I learnt the hard way that these super light bags are light because of really thin poly material (70 denier in my case) which will hole up from putting the loaded bag down on stony ground. Had an expensive new backpack develop a hole first time I used it outdoors due to that. I'm not gentle on my stuff but I was rather unimpressed with that.

[styx]

The whole UL approach is a bit odd if you ask me. There are amazing ideas, the minimalism is courageous but in some instances things become stupid light and not necessarily well thought out.

A good example are UL packs. Sure they are light but a lot of them won't hold up to being a klutz or a trail that is less than perfectly maintained.
An excellent example is the logic with water bottles and footwear. A usual plastic water bottle is lighter than a Nalgene or just about any other longer term solution, but it is also not as environmentally friendly in the long run even with recycling. And at some point the cost doesn't make sense. Similar thing with footwear that has a limited life

UL is more expensive and a lot more work when using in the field. I suppose it depends on your budget and way you want to live. Do you want to spend all the energy carrying the stuff or using it when you get on location. Comes to the same thing though. I learnt the hard way that these super light bags are light because of really thin poly material (70 denier in my case) which will hole up from putting the loaded bag down on stony ground. Had an expensive new backpack develop a hole first time I used it outdoors due to that. I'm not gentle on my stuff but I was rather unimpressed with that.

that's what I figured as well. tarps and biivy bags that they use are really good though. but it is more for through hiking than anything else

[pomsbz]

Rant alert: I've been a life long cyclist until a year ago when I had to stop for medical reasons. I'm also, like most of us a car driver. If you frequent bike forums you'll see drivers vilified without pause but I've always been of the opinion that the majority of bikers on the roads causing driver stress and anger fully deserve it. Those driving without lights. Those driving without care and attention, on their phones or simply clueless of what's happening on the road around them. Those breaking the law. Those who go out of their way to annoy drivers. Case in point today. Rider going down the exact centre of the lane. Some 15 cars backed up behind him. After a couple of minutes of this I honk. He looks round and gives a middle finger. Then at the lights he blocks the entire lane when it goes green to 'punish' me for having honked. He then pulls out his phone to video the cars with the intention of scaring us from doing anything and no doubt to post our faces on his favourite bike forum or facebook group to 'out' the angry drivers.

You can't win driving a car. Whether it's the pedestrian too busy on their phone to look before stepping out onto the road or the the cyclist breaking all the rules with impunity - should anything happen, it's our insurance, our fault and us who will be standing in court trying at best to keep our license and at worst, to keep out of jail on a criminal charge.

Truth be told I don't like driving. You can't win. You're the bad guy the moment you sit behind the wheel.

 

[styx]

after this rant you'd probably get a kick out of my not so endearing pet name for cyclists that do dumb smurfery

[pomsbz]

after this rant you'd probably get a kick out of my not so endearing pet name for cyclists that do dumb smurfery

 

[Aloha]

I have a dash camera but this doesn't stop stupid people being stupid.  I do hope it would vindicate me should a stupid person behave stupidly within the cameras frame. 

I was a long time cyclist and I'm sure I've pissed off a few drivers.  We have a very active cycling community now.  Unfortunately some cyclist like some drivers are just stupid and/or rude.  I'd venture to guess some dont know the rules of the road while others are arrogant, again like some drivers.  No lights is just nonsense tho.     

[pomsbz]

I have a dash camera but this doesn't stop stupid people being stupid.  I do hope it would vindicate me should a stupid person behave stupidly within the cameras frame. 

I was a long time cyclist and I'm sure I've pissed off a few drivers.  We have a very active cycling community now.  Unfortunately some cyclist like some drivers are just stupid and/or rude.  I'd venture to guess some dont know the rules of the road while others are arrogant, again like some drivers.  No lights is just nonsense tho.     

Yeah I've got a dashcam too. Must have around here.