MLCT Crony - Need your input!

[Tarrodemierda]

to me its all the same what kind of lence it has,as long as it can be used to make fire

[DoughDTD]

We're throwing around the idea of nixing the magnifying glass.  What would you guys like to see in that big blank space instead of a magnifying glass.  We might be able to shift the 1/4" hex-driver there, and have a ball bearing insert to lock the bits in place, but I'd like to see a totally different implement, so throw you're ideas my way. 
PS. The project has slowed a bit due to the end-of-the-semester crunch time.  We do have a couple steel parts made up though, and we'll see what we can do about sending them out even though they are smurftier steel (not even stainless), a little smurfed up on the grinding operation (trying some things out, ended up screwing up the grinding) and have the hole for the magnifying glass.  Hopefully we can get the passaround parts out before the end of the semester.

[Gareth]

 :think:The two round tools that spring to mind are a compass and a 360 protractor.  The protractor would be very rough due to the small size however.

[NutSAK]

Good idea!

A compass with a bubble that can be used as a level.

Or, just a bubble level would be good too.

[Freudian Frog]

I liked the magnifier idea. =(

[NutSAK]

Good idea!

A compass with a bubble that can be used as a level.

Or, just a bubble level would be good too.

I'm not sure the compass idea would work what with all the surrounding ferrous metal. 

[DoughDTD]

Good idea!

A compass with a bubble that can be used as a level.

Or, just a bubble level would be good too.

I'm not sure the compass idea would work what with all the surrounding ferrous metal. 

correct

[Gareth]

DOH! 

[DoughDTD]

We're thinking about making these changes, what do you guys think:
-Removing the magnifying glass and putting the 1/4 inch bit driver where it is
-Removing the wire guage on top and just put bumps in for aesthitics and grip
-In a spiral pattern around the 1/4" bit we'll put hte wire guages
-We're also going to put a spring loaded ball bearing into the bit driver now to keep the bit secured in while using it


What do you guys think?]

-Dough

[eodtech]

We're thinking about making these changes, what do you guys think:
-Removing the magnifying glass and putting the 1/4 inch bit driver where it is
-Removing the wire guage on top and just put bumps in for aesthitics and grip
-In a spiral pattern around the 1/4" bit we'll put hte wire guages
-We're also going to put a spring loaded ball bearing into the bit driver now to keep the bit secured in while using it


What do you guys think?]

-Dough

Remove glass is a good move and putting a bb 1/4" bit driver is excellent.
Remove wire gauge off the top is another good move - I see no need for the gauge at all

Perhaps drilling into the body of the tool from the rear OR making an indent where the wire gauges are now and embedding a scribe tool in the groove or hole in the rear  that could be removed and used as needed to make a mark, similar to the toothpick on a SAK.

[SteveRacer]

As a machinist I totally am in love with this project.

However, I might make my selfish needs known ...  the magnifier is what I have a fetish for ... now that my four plus decades eyes are trying to read the laser etch on a #70 drill or a 4 x 40 NF tap.

However, I'm [old] wise enough to know that my selfish needs are not the mandate of the masses.

It's a shame that my EDC "eyeballs" are not enough.  It's hard to make a workable lens EDC without serious cost, scratches, utility, etc.

Still ...  a nice lens that can start a fire AND read the fine print might distinguish this tool from all the others.

My .02 USD or .000023 Euro equivalent.

best-

-steve

P.S.  I'll buy one or two nomatter what.  Nobody understands the details anymore. Or the passion.  I do.  My fellow mt.org brothers do.  Kudos.  Cheers.     

[Tarrodemierda]

We're thinking about making these changes, what do you guys think:
-Removing the magnifying glass and putting the 1/4 inch bit driver where it is
-Removing the wire guage on top and just put bumps in for aesthitics and grip
-In a spiral pattern around the 1/4" bit we'll put hte wire guages
-We're also going to put a spring loaded ball bearing into the bit driver now to keep the bit secured in while using it


What do you guys think?]

-Dough

Remove glass is a good move and putting a bb 1/4" bit driver is excellent.
Remove wire gauge off the top is another good move - I see no need for the gauge at all

Perhaps drilling into the body of the tool from the rear OR making an indent where the wire gauges are now and embedding a scribe tool in the groove or hole in the rear  that could be removed and used as needed to make a mark, similar to the toothpick on a SAK.

+1

[DoughDTD]

Ok guys, I wanted to bump this thread up because I need your help on some design ideas.  I am going to try and heat treat the blades myself, and a 440c would be too difficult to do at home.  A tool steel, however, would not be.  This means were going to have a stronger tool, but the possibility of easier rusting.  My question to you guys is whether or not this trade off is worth it.  I want to try and do the heat treating myself to keep the costs down, and I know I can do tool steel or plain carbon steels effectively, but not the stainless.  So please chime in with your input, especially if you know about the qualities of the various grades of steel.  Thanks guys

-Dough

[Zack]

Tool steel or carbon steel is fine with me.  You could put your own patina on it which would make it look cool and help keep the rust down.

[cgk]

Just a thought.  By removing the magnifying glass would you have enough room to place the 1/4 driver and a recess for a bit.  I know the bit wouldn't sit flush but a band could hold it to the tool, the recess would keep the bit from moving around.  My problem with just the bit driver is...where do you keep a bit?  Just a thought....though I have not thought it through.

[Poncho65]

Tool steel or carbon steel is fine with me.  You could put your own patina on it which would make it look cool and help keep the rust down.

Sounds fine to me as well

[DaveK]

Can tool steel be polished up to a nice shiny finish? I think for a keychain / pocket tool, the appearance needs to be aesthetically pleasing.

[Benner]

I like the idea of a tool/carbon steel.    Like Loudliam said, a cool patina would be good.

[Zack]

I don't think tool steel can be polished, but I think carbon can to a certain degree, but I prefer the patina, as you can make designs in it, and it gives it a more satin look.

[DoughDTD]

I'm unfamiliar with the term or idea of "patina" but i will look into it with more detail.  it seems this can be achieved on steel by simply applying some gun bluing, which makes it look cool and prevents rusting, so that would be cool.  I'd like to get some more people's input regarding the steel before I move forward though, but thanks for your input so far guys.

-Dough

[Zack]

If you've seen a old carbon steel knife, there is a layer of oxidation that forms basically making it look brown or silvery in color.  This is called a patina, and can be forced or allowed to happen over time.  A lot of people who buy carbon steel moras, case xx, or other popular carbon steel knives will soak them in: Sprite, vinegar, hot sauce, lemon juice, basically anything acid and it will force a layer of oxidation.  They do this to not have to worry about rust forming.

[DoughDTD]

Ok guys, I wanted to bump this thread up because I need your help on some design ideas.  I am going to try and heat treat the blades myself, and a 440c would be too difficult to do at home.  A tool steel, however, would not be.  This means were going to have a stronger tool, but the possibility of easier rusting.  My question to you guys is whether or not this trade off is worth it.  I want to try and do the heat treating myself to keep the costs down, and I know I can do tool steel or plain carbon steels effectively, but not the stainless.  So please chime in with your input, especially if you know about the qualities of the various grades of steel.  Thanks guys

-Dough

anyone else?

-Dough

[jzmtl]

Check out crucible's website, they have lots of data on various tool steels, and recommended heat treatment.

I.e. pdf on D2, give comparison of toughness and wear resistance among D2, A2, O1 and a few others: http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsD2v12NEW.pdf?CFID=115604&CFTOKEN=10788854

I like D2 in tool steels, relatively stainless and very wear resistant. Not as tough as many others but I don't think it's important in such a small tool.

[DoughDTD]

Yea ive read up alot on the various grades and heat treat methods, and I think I'm leaning in that direction.  Thanks for the additional reference though, you can never read too much about something! Great data sheet.
 
Anyone else have any input with respect to chaning from  440c to a tool steel?

-Dough

[Neil]

Fine by me.. for what that's worth

Neil

[DoughDTD]

for what that's worth

Neil

It's worth alot!! This is geared around you guys, so your input is paramount to me!

-Dough

[jzmtl]

Yea ive read up alot on the various grades and heat treat methods, and I think I'm leaning in that direction.  Thanks for the additional reference though, you can never read too much about something! Great data sheet.
 
Anyone else have any input with respect to chaning from  440c to a tool steel?

-Dough

Whatever you choose should have at least some rust resistance. I have a couple of transmission gears which I think is made of some sort of tool steel and they literally would rust if you looked at them wrong, one even rusted under clear coat of paint I put on.

[SteveRacer]

. . . basically anything acid and it will force a layer of oxidation.  They do this to not have to worry about rust forming.

LOL.  That's like saying I impregnated my girlfriend so I don't have to worry about contraception for the next nine months.   

Rust, however, is a very good barrier for rust.  Once metal molecule is an oxide, it doesn't react with additional oxygen.

-steve

[Zack]

But its a prettier rust...if that means anything.  I always thought a patina was strange, it makes since, but still strange, but I do like the way it looks.

[SteveRacer]

Damascus!

And not the fake patina stuff; the real deal.   It might take you a few decades to perfect the process, but you could charge $2000 for each Crony then.

If tool steel is really what you want, 4130 is fine.  Reasonable cost, difficult but not impossible to machine.  No additional heat treat necessary.

When you start shopping for the exotics like D2 from botique foundrys like Crucible, you're gonna be in way over your head.  Might be worth it if you were making a knife, but the Crony doesn't have an edge anywere.  Doesn't make sense if you ask me.

Aluminum would be fine I would think...  a nice 6061 in a T6 temper.  Tough and cheap as a material.  You can't get enough torque on such a short tool to damage it, can you?  Plus you could anodize, hardcoat, passivate, etc.  Pretty  colors!

Just my never humble opinion.   

-steve