I got Duped!

[Aloha]

The good thing is that you learned that it isn't an actual SAK.  I'd keep the knife, as to show others what isn't a real SAK. Even Vic does for this reason.  I have a few I had as a kid that I retain for this same purpose, although most of mine are the old 1990s dark red, and those with the fake Aitor shield.

I like this idea.  Good thing is it wasn't a great deal of money spent.  There are signs that the seller could have known however I would not flat out state that he/she did.  I would however let them know it wasn't a Victorionx and let them know how you now know this.  If they were unaware ( interesting description they gave ) then they are a smarter seller.  If they knew then at least you have some piece of mind.   

I'll get the pics up in a bit for you.   

[jaya_man]

From looking at the seller’s pic alone seems shady... apart from the polish on the tools, the liners definitely don’t look like it was made by Victorinox... The shape of the liners are never the same for non-alox models...


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[jaya_man]

When in doubt, ask for more pics. Ask for pics of the tang stamp, of some specific tools, of the front and back scales.

 

+1... it never hurts to ask...


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[ThundahBeagle]

The pliers are a dead giveaway for me but I could see how it will fool people. Seems the seller knows what they are doing.

I second the Capn'. Easy to miss if you never had a SAK with plyers, but they do tend to be the thickest layer of any SAK in which they reside, and these seem rather thin.

[ThundahBeagle]

Couple of points...

Some say the seller may not know what they had. This is possible. Could be a grandmother whose husband died and she's selling his stuff. He may have been duped years before.

Everyone calls this type of knife a Swiss Army Knife, after all.

Some say the seller knew it was a B.S. sale, and deliberately took photos and gave descriptions designed to mask this knife's true lack of family lineage. I can subscribe to this and believe this is more likely, based on the picture angles and such.

Don't feel bad. The shield was there, if a little skewed.

What might I do? Depends what you want.

If you want to know if this seller is a fraud, Return it asking for my $ back. Return in whether or not you get a refund. Return it with a polite letter explaining that it is not genuine, and explain each point, politely, saying that this knife is just not what you thought and you don't want it. Then just watch eBay to see if they post it again with the disingenuous pics and description. Then you will know this seller's intent.

[Huntsman]

Yep definitely not a SAK - Clues as most people pointed out:

• Pliers - Too thin and kinda rounded head - Compare with real Vic pliers and you'll see this
• Metal surround on the mag glass
• They are not 'glued on Vic scales' with the metal inlaid shield - These are counterfeit scales using a copied, printed shield - which BTW is a trade mark infringement 
• The liners
• Price
• Also - Am I right       ....No scissors - All Vics of that size (even over four layers) have scissors

These are things that you will spot as you get more familiar with SAKs - and also with what is happening on ebay
- Don't beat yourself up - But always be suspicious !!! 

What to do - Politely ask for a refund - 'Not as described'  - Technically it is not a SAK and has a fraudulent logo
 - If he denies this - Make sure it happens -  through ebay and or Paypal

Did this seller intentionally defraud - I think yes in this case - Wording camera angles etc

Of course there are plenty of sellers on ebay who would not know that they were selling a counterfeit

But there are many, many who do and are intentionally defrauding
You can see from camera angles, careful wording etc - Some even mix in genuine SAK photos (eg the main one) with their counterfeit photos
 - I think they hook up with their Chinese manufacturers and try and dupe the general public
- Who unfortunately will get a vastly inferior product -

 It also damages the reputation of Vic and the SAK - As when this knife breaks (which it will) - The poor soul who innocently bought it will slag off SAKs in general.

I personally think that these dupers should be stopped... Possibly even tarred and feathered !!          

[Aloha]

I thought I had more parts  .  Not sure where they all went but I do have these and they are yours for the asking.  PM your address and off they go. 

[Thisjk38]

From looking at the seller’s pic alone seems shady... apart from the polish on the tools, the liners definitely don’t look like it was made by Victorinox... The shape of the liners are never the same for non-alox models...


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Thank for the heads up about the liners, didn't notice they are different. Just looked over my Saks and now noticed. Thank you.

Yep definitely not a SAK - Clues as most people pointed out:

• Pliers - Too thin and kinda rounded head - Compare with real Vic pliers and you'll see this
• Metal surround on the mag glass
• They are not 'glued on Vic scales' with the metal inlaid shield - These are counterfeit scales using a copied, printed shield - which BTW is a trade mark infringement 
• The liners
• Price
• Also - Am I right       ....No scissors - All Vics of that size (even over four layers) have scissors

These are things that you will spot as you get more familiar with SAKs - and also with what is happening on ebay
- Don't beat yourself up - But always be suspicious !!! 

What to do - Politely ask for a refund - 'Not as described'  - Technically it is not a SAK and has a fraudulent logo
 - If he denies this - Make sure it happens -  through ebay

As some one correctly suggested earlier, I have never handled the pliers on a SAK, or even the magnifying glass.I am not really interested in saks with them, so I have not really botherd to study them. My fault, and I will be a lot more suspicious now.

As for the scissors, the ad does list there is broken/missing tool, so I assumed it was the scissors since it is not shown. I was at least correct about that haha.Price did not concern me too much because it was listed as broken. The tools I mainly wanted were the knives, file, saw, cap lifter and inline phillips for my mod.

[Thisjk38]

So what do you guys think? Here is the sellers response. I admitted to them that it I can understand if they did not know, but that the ad states One broken/missing tool, but there are in fact 4. So that is going to be my argument now. I also stated that as a seller they should make the ad as accurate as possible, especially when stating there is only one problem. By way the seller’s name is Labskids.






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[pfrsantos]

So what do you guys think? Here is the sellers response. I admitted to them that it I can understand if they did not know, but that the ad states One broken/missing tool, but there are in fact 4. So that is going to be my argument now. I also stated that as a seller they should make the ad as accurate as possible, especially when stating there is only one problem. By way the seller’s name is Labskids.



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This. I think the fact that it's not as described and the underlying tone from the answer is more than enough to submit a complaint to Paypal.

[Wspeed]

So what do you guys think? Here is the sellers response. I admitted to them that it I can understand if they did not know, but that the ad states One broken/missing tool, but there are in fact 4. So that is going to be my argument now. I also stated that as a seller they should make the ad as accurate as possible, especially when stating there is only one problem. By way the seller’s name is Labskids.



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He knew what he was selling 

[Aloha]

The response to me is enough to complain further. 

[pfrsantos]

The response to me is enough to complain further.

+1

[Wspeed]

The response to me is enough to complain further.

+1

+2

[Thunderpants]

By the way, when I sell stuff on ebay I always allow for returns. Why? Because the buyer is always right in ebay's eyes. If you are a seller and the buyer is unhappy about something, the seller always ends up getting the raw end of the deal; so instead of saying "no returns!" I just let them happen and live with it. (Happened only once - some shoes that were the wrong size.)

The upshot for you is, as the buyer, the no returns policy is pretty meaningless.

[Wspeed]

By the way, when I sell stuff on ebay I always allow for returns. Why? Because the buyer is always right in ebay's eyes. If you are a seller and the buyer is unhappy about something, the seller always ends up getting the raw end of the deal; so instead of saying "no returns!" I just let them happen and live with it. (Happened only once - some shoes that were the wrong size.)

The upshot for you is, as the buyer, the no returns policy is pretty meaningless.

I am with Thunderpants on this one 
The buyer is always right in ebays eyes.
And if it's not what you expected it's your rights to return the item 
Good luck

[Fuzzbucket]

By the way, when I sell stuff on ebay I always allow for returns. Why? Because the buyer is always right in ebay's eyes. If you are a seller and the buyer is unhappy about something, the seller always ends up getting the raw end of the deal; so instead of saying "no returns!" I just let them happen and live with it. (Happened only once - some shoes that were the wrong size.)

The upshot for you is, as the buyer, the no returns policy is pretty meaningless.

I am with Thunderpants on this one 
The buyer is always right in ebays eyes.
And if it's not what you expected it's your rights to return the item 
Good luck

Yep, I agree with these guys! 

[Top-Gear-24]

The response to me is enough to complain further.

+1

+2

+3

Found a similar thing on a Belgian 2nd hand site, seller has all kinds of Victorinox stuff for sale, but one of them is sold as being "Swiss Pocket Knife"...  . 

Over here we don't say Swiss Army Knife (which would be Zwitsers Leger Mes in Dutch), we say "Zwitsers Zakmes", which is translated as "Swiss Pocket Knife", just to make clear that this is what everybody says to a SAK over here.  So this guy also knows that what he's selling is a piece of smurf fake SAK, so he "leaves out" the brand name Victorinox.  And I'm pretty sure that the gullible person who buys this one and finds out afterwards that he was scammed, get's about the same reply as the one Thisjk38 got ... 

For a link to the page, click here.

[Top-Gear-24]

After seeing the fake SAK for sale on that Belgian site, I've been thinking about giving the person who placed a bid on it a heads up about it being a fake, but I just read through some the comments his buyers gave him ...  .

Turns out mister buyer is also a huge smurfhole ...

So maybe I should just let Karma do its thing here ... 

[Wspeed]

After seeing the fake SAK for sale on that Belgian site, I've been thinking about giving the person who placed a bid on it a heads up about it being a fake, but I just read through some the comments his buyers gave him ...  .

Turns out mister buyer is also a huge smurfhole ...

So maybe I should just let Karma do its thing here ... 

What goes around comes around 

[Nick4]

The response to me is enough to complain further.

+1

+2

+3

+4

He knew what he was selling 

+1

Exactly, he knew! 

[Thisjk38]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Next time I have an Eerie about something I’m posting here. Been on this site for a while but mainly for the MTs and knives. Glad to be on the SAK train now. Going out of town so I won’t be able to update, however I have to wait until the 24th anyways before reporting back to EBay.

Quick question for those who say eBay protects the buyer.... if I leave negative feedback, and this guys does the same in retaliation, can I have it removed? I’m worried he will, even though I paid instantly and have a legitimate gripe. Thanks again.


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[Thunderpants]

Sellers cannot leave negative feedback!
But I would resist the urge to leave negative feedback for him. That's reserved for the worst behaviour. He was a bit dodgy with his photos but he never explicitely lied about the thing he was selling. Also if you have given him a negative he has little reason to be nice with you, regarding a refund etc.
I've only left one negative in ca. 15 years.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm with Thunderpants on this one, I wouldn't leave negative feedback, it limits both your choices and isn't really a civilised thing to do anyway (imo)... that should be reserved for the real scum. Wait, until you hear back from eBay.

[dks]

The issue is that most dodgy sellers will refund you or take it back and replace an item, if caught, since eBay protects the buyer.

Thus we end up not leaving a negative review or leaving no review at all.


So, there is no warning for future victims, as someone with 95% positive feedback may have had to refund people for 30% of the time, making them happy and getting a positive feedback (especially if they let you keep the piece of excrement encrusted in lies that they sold you.


This is also true with other online shops

for example B-Good lets you post bad reviews whereas G-Best will go out of their way to encourage/make you post a positive review - look for reviews on both sites, for the same item.

[pfrsantos]

After seeing the fake SAK for sale on that Belgian site, I've been thinking about giving the person who placed a bid on it a heads up about it being a fake, but I just read through some the comments his buyers gave him ...  .

Turns out mister buyer is also a huge smurfhole ...

So maybe I should just let Karma do its thing here ... 

Well done, Earl!

[Top-Gear-24]

After seeing the fake SAK for sale on that Belgian site, I've been thinking about giving the person who placed a bid on it a heads up about it being a fake, but I just read through some the comments his buyers gave him ...  .

Turns out mister buyer is also a huge smurfhole ...

So maybe I should just let Karma do its thing here ... 

Well done, Earl!

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