New Style Magnifying Lens Issue

[Ptisuisse]

Kind of funny, that when Vic has a quality issue, they don't get lambasted like most other companies do.
[/quote]

But they should be.        Nobody should be allowed to sell cra..p and get away with it. Send them just the lens to save on shipping.

[gerleatherberman]

But they should be.        Nobody should be allowed to sell cra..p and get away with it. Send them just the lens to save on shipping.

I have to agree. 
Only thing about sending back the lens is that I have zero issues with the newer glass lenses. It is the translucent frame that holds the lens that isn't nearly as good as the earlier grey ones.
And, to be honest, I wouldn't be so adamant about it, except that I had grown accustomed to the strong grey lens frame of my older Vics. The old layer with the grey frame and longer phillips was one of my favorite things about SAKs that had it.

But, like everything else, the older ones (SAKs) were better quality. 

On the plus side, there are a lot of older SAKs out there for sale.

[VICMAN]

But they should be.        Nobody should be allowed to sell cra..p and get away with it. Send them just the lens to save on shipping.

I have to agree. 
Only thing about sending back the lens is that I have zero issues with the newer glass lenses. It is the translucent frame that holds the lens that isn't nearly as good as the earlier grey ones.
And, to be honest, I wouldn't be so adamant about it, except that I had grown accustomed to the strong grey lens frame of my older Vics. The old layer with the grey frame and longer phillips was one of my favorite things about SAKs that had it.

But, like everything else, the older ones (SAKs) were better quality. 

On the plus side, there are a lot of older SAKs out there for sale.

My preference would be a SwissChamp with the old magnifier with gray frame and the longer phillips screwdriver, but I prefer the newer metal file/saw over the old metal file/saw.

[Sawl Goodman]

Like a few others I've complained about the lens falling out in my Explorer, even with careful opening and closing, and have long intended to use epoxy to fix it in place permanently. I didn't want to use superglue for fear of clouding the housing. I wasn't going to buy an epoxy kit specially though, so I was waiting for another job to come along. Crazy then, within an hour of my post about it yesterday, I found a 5 minute kit staring at me in my spare room. A tiny spot inside opposite sides of the frame means the lens ain't going nowhere, now!

It was a fiddly job and I was afraid to get resin on the lens as I put in place. I did smear a little of the fishy smelling part on it and was relieved that it wiped off readily with a lens tissue. The marks on the lens in the picture are dust.

I could see no point in sending the knife back to Victorinox since it would cost over 20 local dollars (big for me, and I only paid $25 or so for the knife) and could take months to come back, and I didn't feel assured the result would be much better.

[Top-Gear-24]

I only own 3 SAKs with the new glass lens (all of which are SilverTech Swisschamps), and I've never had the lens fall out.  So I do like them better than the previous plastic lens version, since those do get scratched after a while.

Don't know when Victorinox changed the plastic ones for the new glass ones, but I'm guessing my Swisschamps, being made in 2015, must be some of the first ones with the new glass lens in them.  Maybe the problem is on the more recent "new style" magnifiers ?  Or maybe I'm that lucky that I've got three of them that don't fall out ...?  Or maybe it only happens on a very small percentage of them, but as always, you only hear about the ones which are having a problem and not about the ones who work just fine ...?

[VICMAN]

Like a few others I've complained about the lens falling out in my Explorer, even with careful opening and closing, and have long intended to use epoxy to fix it in place permanently.  A tiny spot inside opposite sides of the frame means the lens ain't going nowhere, now!

Nice job Sawl!

[Sawl Goodman]

I only own 3 SAKs with the new glass lens (all of which are SilverTech Swisschamps), and I've never had the lens fall out.  So I do like them better than the previous plastic lens version, since those do get scratched after a while.

Don't know when Victorinox changed the plastic ones for the new glass ones, but I'm guessing my Swisschamps, being made in 2015, must be some of the first ones with the new glass lens in them.  Maybe the problem is on the more recent "new style" magnifiers ?  Or maybe I'm that lucky that I've got three of them that don't fall out ...?  Or maybe it only happens on a very small percentage of them, but as always, you only hear about the ones which are having a problem and not about the ones who work just fine ...?

I think they changed to the latest magnifier around 2012. It might have taken some years though to complete the transition.

It could be that the problem only affects some early manufactures and has since been addressed. Or as you suggest, it's the other way round, maybe because of worn tooling. Who knows? Unfortunately you might not know how long shop stock has been kept. Buzzbait of this parish bought a brand new Explorer the other day that surprised him with the plastic lens.

[Sawl Goodman]

Nice job Sawl!

Thanks, Vicman. It really was driving me nuts. I was lucky to be able to do it sooner rather than later!

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to ask. Did you superglue your lens in?

[gerleatherberman]

For me it isn't the lens falling out all of the time. It doesn't do that much at all. What bothers me is that I can take my SAKs with the grey mag and not be able to push the lens out, but the new ones pop out quite easily when pushed. For me personally, nothing about a SAK should "pop out" and fall to the floor except the T&T&P when pulled out. And the intermediate plastic lens was a ridiculous decision in my opinion as well. Can't tell how many times that metal dust and/or dirt has gotten on my mag lenses. One wrong move and the plastic lens is scratched. I understand most SAK users don't utilize them in dirty work environments, but Vic producing lenses that can be easily scratched or pop out is a step backwards from the good ole' grey framed mags. I am not willing to sacrifice durability, reliability and/or magnigication for a slightly larger lens.
Disclaimer: These are my subjective thoughts on the issue.

[Sawl Goodman]

I think your criticisms are absolutely fair, G-man. There's no need to make a disclaimer for opinions and personal preferences!

I agree the grey magnifier is superior to the newer ones in reliability and durability. I've never heard of the lens falling out or even being pushed out, or know of the housing breaking, or anything. I don't feel let down by it in any way. As I've said before: if it's the only magnifier you have, it works just fine. But since I also can make comparisons, I prefer the optical quality of the current magnifier. I use it often and the wider field of view makes it better for reading fine print in particular, and I don't have to hold the lens as closely to the subject or text. I have much more confidence in it now. If only some of them came from the factory with a secure lens that doesn't need a user's intervention!

I have no doubt the plastic lens damages easily and can only understand Vic's decision to introduce it as a cost saving measure. Perhaps the dies for the old model were on their way out, who knows. Or maybe they underestimated the replacement's fragility. They must have had more than a few warranty returns before replacing it with the current one.

That's not to say the glass magnifier lenses aren't immune to damage either - just less likely to suffer it. Optical glass is relatively soft. The grey one on my SC has a mysterious rash of tiny pits in it on the pliers side. Not bad considering the knife had suffered so much abuse before I got it. The pits don't seem to affect the performance of the lens.

Here's a funny thing! While the lens on my new magnifier would often simply fall out upon opening or closing it, even slowly, I found it harder to push it out with my fingers. It wasn't that easy to reseat it correctly in the frame, either. 

[gerleatherberman]

I think your criticisms are absolutely fair, G-man. There's no need to make a disclaimer for opinions and personal preferences!

I agree the grey magnifier is superior to the newer ones in reliability and durability. I've never heard of the lens falling out or even being pushed out, or know of the housing breaking, or anything. I don't feel let down by it in any way. As I've said before: if it's the only magnifier you have, it works just fine. But since I also can make comparisons, I prefer the optical quality of the current magnifier. I use it often and the wider field of view makes it better for reading fine print in particular, and I don't have to hold the lens as closely to the subject or text. I have much more confidence in it now. If only some of them came from the factory with a secure lens that doesn't need a user's intervention!

I have no doubt the plastic lens damages easily and can only understand Vic's decision to introduce it as a cost saving measure. Perhaps the dies for the old model were on their way out, who knows. Or maybe they underestimated the replacement's fragility. They must have had more than a few warranty returns before replacing it with the current one.

That's not to say the glass magnifier lenses aren't immune to damage either - just less likely to suffer it. Optical glass is relatively soft. The grey one on my SC has a mysterious rash of tiny pits in it on the pliers side. Not bad considering the knife had suffered so much abuse before I got it. The pits don't seem to affect the performance of the lens.

Here's a funny thing! While the lens on my new magnifier would often simply fall out upon opening or closing it, even slowly, I found it harder to push it out with my fingers. It wasn't that easy to reseat it correctly in the frame, either. 

Thanks and well said, Sawl! 

I think the best we can hope for is that Vic will one day introduce a larger grey frame, made of the same nearly-invincible grey plastic as the old ones, with the newer glass lens( can live with the frame not being clear). 

[Sawl Goodman]

Thanks and well said, Sawl! 

I think the best we can hope for is that Vic will one day introduce a larger grey frame, made of the same nearly-invincible grey plastic as the old ones, with the newer glass lens( can live with the frame not being clear). 

The best of both worlds.   

And if they could somehow keep the extra length of the old Phillips...

[gerleatherberman]

The best of both worlds.   

And if they could somehow keep the extra length of the old Phillips...

YES...YES..!

 

[ulzhan]

How about a layer with the old and the new philips together?

 

[Top-Gear-24]

Just how big of an issue are we talking about here, how many people here at MTO have had the lens fall out ?  I mean, it doesn't seem to happen as often as, for example, the misaligned handles on the Spirit, or the file rubbing on the Charge.  If it did, this forum would be flooded with complaints about it, since the current magnifying glass is used on a couple of very populair SAKs, like the Explorer, the Swisschamp and the Cybertool.

Don't get me wrong, it shouldn't happen, and it must be very annoying if you're one of the unlucky ones.  But maybe, just maybe that's just what it is, a couple of very unlucky few on thousends and thousends of SAKs with the magnifying glass which have no problems. Again, even if this is the case, it doesn't change the fact that somebody ends up having to fix or send in something that should have been okay when they bought it, I agree on that.

And another thing I've been wondering about, why is the old style grey plastic better than the current one ?  I mean, have there been reports of the current one breaking or cracking up ?  Except from the lens being too loose on some of them (which might not even be caused by the plastic holding the lens, it might as well be a glass lens tolerance issue, like Syph007 mentioned), but except from that, are there any other known issues with it ?

Judging from my own experience, I can only conclude for myself that the new style plastic and lens is the best so far.  The first grey plastic ones were a bit too much (what was it 8x magnification) which wasn't easy to use, the next version had the plastic lens, which scored better in magnification, but scratched up very easily, and the last version has the best of both worlds in my opinion, especially since none of mine has ever fallen out (yet  ).

Just my 2 cents, as always  .

[Mechanickal]

I have only one of each, and I also feel as if the latest version is the best so far.

Good function overall, good magnification level, large field of view.
I haven't heard any reports on the frame braking either.
They shouldn't fall out of any version though, so it seems only safe if they'd drop a tiny bit of glue in the latest version from factory.

My guess is that the thinner frame allows for more flex (especially since it's see-through plastic, which isn't as hard as solid plastic).
Does anyone of you with this problem forced out the lens to begin with? Just to see it pop out? Or did anyone buy his/hers second hand?

[gerleatherberman]

Edit: Please disregard the joke. I apologize for not realizing how offensive it would be and apologize for writing it. Apologies specifically to T-G and Mechanickal. A big mistake on my part.

Original text:
Oh my. Seal Team Vic is in full defense mode about them mag lenses.

[Top-Gear-24]

Oh my. Seal Team Vic is in full defense mode about them mag lenses. 

Why do you always see things in a "them vs us" way ?

Aren't we here to talk about tools and to share our knowledge of (and experiences with) them ?



Edit: We don't have Seal Teams over here, we have Para-commando's.

Let me explain it to you, Para-commando's vs Seals are a bit like a Wave vs a Free, a lot less bells and whistles but just as practical  .

[Mechanickal]

Please tell me where I went into defending Victorinox?

I said that I haven't had any issues with the latest lens.

I openly admitted that it's something that shouldn't happen and that Vic could glue the lenses themselves as a plain and simple solution to this.

I further speculated about a possible cause. Since it only seems logical that the frame could weaken if someone was to pop the lens in and out of his frame multiple times.

I honestly feel it all made more sense than saying someone must have tampered with some bolts and screws to put a tool in a bad daylight.
I also feel as if you enjoy trying to put people in Victorinox and Leatherman camps since there's not a single week that passes by lately without someone being called a hater or a "defence team".

I have always been open and honest about flaws in Vic designs when I see them.
Feel free to point out where I didn't.

I never said I hated your beloved tool variants, only the extreme prices they catch these days.

Why do they catch less comments for it? Because their tools cost a third or quarter of the competition and is repairable with a drop of glue in this case.

[Top-Gear-24]

Please tell me where I went into defending Victorinox?

I said that I haven't had any issues with the latest lens.

I openly admitted that it's something that shouldn't happen and that Vic could glue the lenses themselves as a plain and simple solution to this.

I further speculated about a possible cause. Since it only seems logical that the frame could weaken if someone was to pop the lens in and out of his frame multiple times.

I honestly feel it all made more sense than saying someone must have tampered with some bolts and screws to put a tool in a bad daylight.
I also feel as if you enjoy trying to put people in Victorinox and Leatherman camps since there's not a single week that passes by lately without someone being called a hater or a "defence team".

I have always been open and honest about flaws in Vic designs when I see them.
Feel free to point out where I didn't.

I never said I hated your beloved tool variants, only the extreme prices they catch these days.

Why do they catch less comments for it? Because their tools cost a third or quarter of the competition and is repairable with a drop of glue in this case.

   Euh, I mean  .

But what did you expect, He's my teammate  .

[gerleatherberman]

I am wondering where in the hell LM was brought up here? If it was inferred, I apologize you feel that way, but what I said was meant to be silly.
LET ME EXPLAIN.

We were discussing possible ways that Vic could improve the next generation of mag glass and Phillips shank. Nothing about LM there. Then two very well written posts, implying that the new mags are actually better than the old ones, and I said Seal Team Vic. I'm sorry you have a chip on your shoulder, guys. Don't know what else to say about that.

I don't even have a favorite brand, and that serves me well. If you want to argue that, then go read my numerous posts in the SOG and Gerber forums, as well as the C & C and collectors forum.

I'm done in this thread. The mag frame is not important in the big picture, and certainly not worth arguing over. We just don't have much else to talk about.

[Mechanickal]

I try to read threads completely if they aren't endlessly long.

In this same thread you mentioned:

Kind of funny, that when Vic has a quality issue, they don't get lambasted like most other companies do.

And you add the "Seal Team Vic" last.
As if I'm overly biased towards Victorinox, which I always try to avoid.

I'm only counting up the sum of posts, rather than looking at every post as a singularity.

[Top-Gear-24]

I was just trying to understand how big of an issue this was, how many people have had this problem with the lens falling out, nothing more ... 

Like I said, I own three SAKs with the new style lens and none of them have this issue, I wanted to know whether I just got lucky or this problem is more of a 1 in a 1000 (or 10.000) problem.  Just to see if I should think about this when I decide to buy a SAK with the new style lens in the future.  Which means, only buying them at a store where I can check the lens first, so no online buying anymore, if you know what I mean.

That's also why I wanted to know if there were any other known problems with the new style plastic lens holder, like breaking or cracking, just as I asked ?  No hidden agenda behind it, no Vic promo for whatever reason I would do such a thing ...


I did find it strange that you made this comment:

I would bet my left foot that Victorinox is fully aware of the issue. I've personally sent several emails to them about it. But, I am not paying the shipping to send mine back and wait weeks for another one. Shipping costs a lot more than super-glue. 

Kind of funny, that when Vic has a quality issue, they don't get lambasted like most other companies do.

But I decided not to go into that, just to make sure not to stir things up. But since SHTF now, I might just ask ...

You have an issue with a SAK but are not willing to ship it to Victorinox and wait to get a replacement, right ?

Then what is it you expect Victorinox to do exactly ?

Send you a tube of glue/epoxy to fix it ?
Send you a new SAK without you having to send yours to them ?
Send over a technician to come and fix it at your home ?

I mean, isn't that how warranty works, you send in your broken/flawed product, they examine the problem and either fix it or send you a replacement, right ?

I know that's the way I did it when I had to get something fixed under warranty, and in one case I even had to pay shipping twice (20 Euro each time) because the replacement tool they send me was used way more than the one I send in ...

Warranty claims suck, and you have to do things you shouldn't have to do when you've bought a brandnew tool, but sometimes, sh*t just happens ...

I still hope to get a better view on just how much of a problem this lens issue is, since it has me a bit worried.

[Buzzbait]

For the record, with two straight weeks of carry, and a ton of use, my new Warthog SwissChamp has had no issues with the glass magnifier lens popping out. I also greatly prefer the optical quality of the new glass lens. It’s soooooooooo much nicer to use.

With that said, my outdoor SwissChamps are all of the older variety. My need for DEET based insect repellents kind of rules out the newer SwissChamps, since the clear plastic magnifier housing reacts to DEET. The older grey nylon magnifier housings are immune to my greatest wilderness machinations.

[Top-Gear-24]

For the record, with two straight weeks of carry, and a ton of use, my new Warthog SwissChamp has had no issues with the glass magnifier lens popping out. I also greatly prefer the optical quality of the new glass lens. It’s soooooooooo much nicer to use.

With that said, my outdoor SwissChamps are all of the older variety. My need for DEET based insect repellents kind of rules out the newer SwissChamps, since the clear plastic magnifier housing reacts to DEET. The older grey nylon magnifier housings are immune to my greatest wilderness machinations.

That's the stuff I wanted to hear, so another one without the "lens popping out" problem, and a good reason to prefer the grey lens housing over the new one  .

Thanks for sharing your experiences Buzzbait  .

[kamakiri]

How about a layer with the old and the new philips together?

 

They won't fit, even with a modified spring to make each side 'work'.

And the old style is never coming back...especially not the old phillips length. Too much was done to make the light module, mag and phillips fit in with any combination and for the phillips to fit in either side.  I only choose the newer parts for a mod if the light is going to be one of the tools.

The gray mag might be able to fit in the space of the new glass mag.  I think the dimensions are pretty close, not like the plastic mag which was much larger on the round end.

...

FWIW, I haven't had any of my new '12+ glass lenses pop out. Most spin freely. I like it enough and generally prefer it, but don't care for the short phillips that go with.

[Top-Gear-24]

They won't fit, even with a modified spring to make each side 'work'.

And the old style is never coming back...especially not the old phillips length. Too much was done to make the light module, mag and phillips fit in with any combination and for the phillips to fit in either side.  I only choose the newer parts for a mod if the light is going to be one of the tools.

The gray mag might be able to fit in the space of the new glass mag.  I think the dimensions are pretty close, not like the plastic mag which was much larger on the round end.

...

FWIW, I haven't had any of my new '12+ glass lenses pop out. Most spin freely. I like it enough and generally prefer it, but don't care for the short phillips that go with.

So, another one without the "lens popping out" issue, and yes, I understand how the short phillips can be a dealbreaker for some.

Thanks for sharing your experiences Kamakiri  .

[kamakiri]

So, another one without the "lens popping out" issue, and yes, I understand how the short phillips can be a dealbreaker for some.

Thanks for sharing your experiences Kamakiri .

   You're welcome, Top-Gear. Best reason to be part of the forum!

[FiL Wisneski]

I rarely use the magnifier on my Champion Plus (bought new on Amazon just a couple of years ago), but lately I needed it a couple of times, and both time the lens popped out when I opened it.

  - FiL

[Buzzbait]

Second time was a charm with Amazon. I sent back the "new" Explorer that arrived with a plastic magnifier, and got a new glass magnifier model this time. Unlike my Warthog SwissChamp, the glass lens in this newest Explorer doesn't rotate within the housing. It's a very tight fit.

From an optical perspective, I don't see much difference between the new glass and the plastic magnifier. The glass may distort a bit toward the edge, where the plastic does not. But overall, the new glass lens is very nice. I hardly notice any difference in level of magnification between the two. If I didn't already know they were different levels of magnification, I'd probably never suspect.