The Urge for the Surge 30 Day Challenge in April

[ducttapetech]

I am just the opposite, I thought the ST300 blade looked shoddy to the Surge blade. Funny how people see things differently.

Well, not 'shoddy', per se, but thought the Surge blade was better.

[gerleatherberman]

A good 420HC, American made, knife runs $40-$60. The Surge is $100. It is amazing you get SO MUCH MORE than a single PE blade for just $60-$40 more.

[Wspeed]

Looks like I have the same curve on the blade of the Surge 

[MickeS]

Mine is completely straight if that's what you are talking about.

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[Wspeed]

You seem to be the only one with a straight blade Mike 

[Poncho65]

I will check my SS ones tonight don't know why that would make a difference but you never know

[Nix]

Yes, Micke, your's looks like it was properly ground.

Interesting.

[Fuzzbucket]

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that is the intentional grind.   

It might be a way to compensate for a blade losing it's edge.   

Regardless, it's not to my liking. And seems shoddy when compared to the excellent ST300 blade.  But, perhaps that is just me. 

No, it's poor QC. I'd say about half of all the newer Leathermans (Wave, Charge, Surge etc...) I've had have had whacky grinds. The last surge I had a few years ago had an obvious sh:te grind - just slapdash - I didn't keep it long.

The BO Wave I have now is the third of three - the previous two were returned due to QC issues including crappy grinds on the blades... Infact, thinking about it, the one I have might have a cack grind on the reverse too - I'll have a look in a bit.

The last Charge I had, I kept for a few years even though it had issues with the file etc, because it had a fantastic clean grind on the PE and I thought, I won't get that again, better hold onto it. There's been others too including other Charges etc... but I'll be here all day if...

Anyway, you get the idea.

[Fuzzbucket]

Funnily enough, one of the nicest grinds I had was on a fairly inexpensive BO Kick... I should've kept it. 

[Fuzzbucket]

...

The BO Wave I have now is the third of three - the previous two were returned due to QC issues including crappy grinds on the blades... Infact, thinking about it, the one I have might have a cack grind on the reverse too - I'll have a look in a bit.

...

Anyway, you get the idea.

Yep, I was right. Can you believe it - that's the factory edge. 

[SteveC]

Just checked mine and there is a very slight recurve to it. I also checked both of my ST300's and one has the same amount of recurve as the Surge, the BO one is straight.  As far as the scissors on mine they were also a tad loose when I got it.  Mine was used but not much by the looks of it. I tighten them up by peening and sharpened them and they cut fine thread and fabric really well as long as I use the front half of the scissors. Towards the back fabric gets sandwiched between the blades. They cut paper really well all along the edge.

I suspect any recurve is just a result of sharpening tolerances.

I would like to hear how other peoples scissors perform on fabric .

[Nix]

This has been a rough morning. I didn't sleep well last night.

Micke confirmed my fears.

And now Fuzzbucket is speaking like a reasonable person. 

It's all a bit much to take in before I've had my tea.

Fabric testing to follow........and the challenge hasn't even started......

[gerleatherberman]

Yep, I was right. Can you believe it - that's the factory edge. 

(Image removed from quote.)

Looks perfectly functional to me, Fuzz.

Anyone bothered by the grind really do need to consider how smurfing expensive the Surge would be if everything was perfect. Would probably cost twice as much.

A good 420HC, American made, knife runs $40-$60. The Surge is $100. It is amazing you get SO MUCH MORE than a single PE blade for just $60-$40 more.

And that is reasonable too.

[Nix]

Yep, I was right. Can you believe it - that's the factory edge. 

Yes.... ....I had Wave like that. 

Leatherman likes to brag their tools are made in the USA. No blade like that would ever leave a SEKI factory.  Reminds me of a 1970's GM sedan.   

[Nix]

Looks perfectly functional to me, Fuzz.

Anyone bothered by the grind really do need to consider how smurfing expensive the Surge would be if everything was perfect. Would probably cost twice as much.

A good 420HC, American made, knife runs $40-$60. The Surge is $100. It is amazing you get SO MUCH MORE than a single PE blade for just $60-$40 more.

And that is reasonable too.

Sorry G-man, I can get a Vic Swisstool for a little less than the cost of this Surge. And the fit and finish on the Swisstool will be excellent. Far superior to this.

And there is no way I'd call the Surge knife a GOOD 420HC blade at this point.  I'd call it shoddy.  Now, I'll wait to see how it performs, maybe they've done a decent heat treat and it will hold up.

[Wspeed]

Just tested the scissors on a old flannel and it would only cut the material with the front part of the scissors and wouldn’t cut near the back of the scissors but it did cut the flannel 
Here is two pics one of me using the scissors and
the other one is the grind of the blade on the Surge

[Nix]

LM should market that as a 420 blade with 'Enhanced Cutting Technology'.

[gerleatherberman]

Sorry G-man, I can get a Vic Swisstool for a little less than the cost of this Surge. And the fit and finish on the Swisstool will be excellent. Far superior to this.

And there is no way I'd call the Surge knife a GOOD 420HC blade at this point.  I'd call it shoddy.  Now, I'll wait to see how it performs, maybe they've done a decent heat treat and it will hold up.

Swisstool is made completely by automated machines for lower production costs. They only have two models, which makes production cheaper too. The pliers and cutters are WAY below par on the swisstool as well. Soft tool steel also.

And I have a swisstool with play in the pliers and one with the pliers too tight. One Spirit with significantly misaligned handles and one with tools too tight to open easily. They can't be taken apart either, because of the cost saving rivets.

[Fuzzbucket]

Looks perfectly functional to me, Fuzz.

Anyone bothered by the grind really do need to consider how smurfing expensive the Surge would be if everything was perfect. Would probably cost twice as much.

A good 420HC, American made, knife runs $40-$60. The Surge is $100. It is amazing you get SO MUCH MORE than a single PE blade for just $60-$40 more.

And that is reasonable too.

Well... I'm in the UK, so it does cost twice a much. 

[Wspeed]

  Very expensive to buy in the UK

[gerleatherberman]

Well... I'm in the UK, so it does cost twice a much. 

Oh Fuzzy,
Please do it this way.

U.S average cost for SS model - $100.
Possible cost with perfect tools -  $200.
U.k average cost for SS model - $200.
Possible cost with perfect tools - $400.

Simple hypothetical math.

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh Fuzzy,
Please do it this way.

U.S average cost for SS model - $100.
Possible cost with perfect tools -  $200.
U.k average cost for SS model - $200.
Possible cost with perfect tools - $400.

Simple hypothetical math.

I like you Gerberthingy - I'm saying nothing.

[Wspeed]

Those prices look about right 

[Nix]

I have not hard used the Swisstool to date, so I can't comment on their steel quality. I guess if I mangled the Swisstool, I would send it back for repair or replacement, they have a good warranty.


Unfortunately, G-man, it sounds to me like your defense of Leatherman here is something like: "We should be grateful to be able to buy cheap goods that are poorly made."

This doesn't sit well with me.

I thought that's what we had China for? 

Only now, China is making quality goods. So we cannot really count on them anymore.....so.....maybe we do need cheap US made tools....

[gerleatherberman]

Not quite right, Nix.

I think of it as being happy we can still get fantastic tools for reasonable prices. And China has still not produced a multitool that even comes close to the Surge. When they do, looking at their $40 tools(for a decent tool like Roxon), it'll be around $100, and still not as good as LM.
Your main defended issue is an unattractive grind on the main blade.
The blade works as it should and isn't crap, because of an unattractive grind. I beg of you to look at the Surge as a whole. Then show me something that comes close for $100.

[Wspeed]

I don’t like it when you spent your hard earned money on a multitool
And tools aren’t working the way they should
Like scissors should work like scissors the file should work as a file
The can opener should at least be the
same quality as a SAK can opener or better
I don’t know why companies can’t make
sure what they are selling is good quality 

[gerleatherberman]

I don’t like it when you spent your hard earned money on a multitool
And tools aren’t working the way they should
Like scissors should work like scissors the file should work as a file
The can opener should at least be the
same quality as a SAK can opener or better
I don’t know why companies can’t make
sure what they are selling is good quality 

So the Surge isn't good quality?

[Wspeed]

no I am not talking about the Surge 
I am saying is that if any company puts tools on their
MTs they should make sure that they work properly
I just don’t like it when I see tools on some MTs
That with a bit more time spent on them could be really good tools
And I don’t think that we should have to make them work properly by
giving the scissors for instance a couple of
taps with a hammer to make them work properly
That should of been done at Q/C before it leaves the factory


So far I am really happy with the Surge
I can’t say anything about the grind on the blade
As I haven’t got a clue what the reason is

[SteveC]

Let's keep this friendly , everyone has their own idea of quality and what their expectations are when getting a new tool.

Leatherman has always been inconsistent with their blade grinds for whatever reason. I've seen some bad grinds on PST's before.

I will say the grind on Jacks blade is more even than the grind on my Surge 

[MickeS]

Are we talking funktion or cosmetics? So far my surge gets the job done everytime. I'm happy and not educated enough to care about angles and stuff. Love my surge

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