The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread

[gregpost]

   I searched to see if a thread like this existed but couldn't find anything. I want to use this as repository to ask any question people might have about Swiss Army knives, no matter how stupid you think it might be.

   I have been thinking about how the nylon scales on Victorinox models are made. They have a textured grippy feel but I have some material samples of cast nylon from machinery that are very smooth. So do you think Victorinox molds for nylon scales are textured or is it just how the nylon cast comes out?

[kamakiri]

'Pebble' texture is cast. Nylon can be pretty smooth if cast or cut/machined that way.

[hiraethus]

The nylon scales are injection  moulded and they pick up whatever surface finish is inside the mould.  In the case of the SAK scales it's a spark eroded or electro discharge machined (EDM) finish that gives the texture.  Google VDI 3400 for more than you could ever possibly need to know...

[MMR]

Regarding the nylon scales; the logos on the 111mm are usually painted on and they do wear off over time.

would it really be that more expensive to either have the logos stamped / cast into the handles instead ...sort of like they have done with the victorinox logo on the 111mm soldier?

I mean it will certainly last better over time and give a better feel of quality IMO

[gregpost]

The nylon scales are injection  moulded and they pick up whatever surface finish is inside the mould.  In the case of the SAK scales it's a spark eroded or electro discharge machined (EDM) finish that gives the texture.  Google VDI 3400 for more than you could ever possibly need to know...

 This is the exact info I was looking for and what I imagined. Really helpful, thanks.

So evogrip scales would be a two part injection molded scale, with both parts made of nylon?

On the Rangergrip 130mm scales the material feels like nylon and the color part of the scale is dull and has more textured feel. On the Victorinox 85mm evogrip the color part is very smooth and shiny almost like Cellidor scales and the black grip portion is textured.

[hiraethus]

They could be the same material, but I doubt it. More likely to be something with a different (lower) melting point.

The 85mm evogrip models are celidor + some kind of elastomer I believe.

[hiraethus]

Regarding the nylon scales; the logos on the 111mm are usually painted on and they do wear off over time.

would it really be that more expensive to either have the logos stamped / cast into the handles instead ...sort of like they have done with the victorinox logo on the 111mm soldier?

I mean it will certainly last better over time and give a better feel of quality IMO

It would be cheaper to emboss the logo into the scale, as it's part of the moulding process. Less flexible though. No chance of applying an advertising logo, for example.

[Max Stone]

Great thread... 

Next stupid question: why do Victorinox pair the scissors with the hook tool on almost every current SAK outside the ex-Wenger models and Pioneer X?

Is it simply a case of available space behind the scissors and they can’t come up with another tool option? 

[Don Pablo]

Great thread... 

Next stupid question: why do Victorinox pair the scissors with the hook tool on almost every current SAK outside the ex-Wenger models and Pioneer X?

Is it simply a case of available space behind the scissors and they can’t come up with another tool option? 

Pre-1991, the hook didn't exist and all scissors had a smooth back spring.
Post-1991.... I guess they went crazy about the new hook tool that they made to go with the scissors. They seemed to be focused on cramming more tools on the back to increase the tool count.

At this point, to go back to no hook, with a smooth backspring, seems very unlikely .
And I can't see them making a new tool to replace the hook.  What could they make that is as simple as it?

And the reason the Wenger models don't have a hook is because they never designed one for them.
93mm Alox models like the PX can't have the hook, because to have backtools you need 4 rivets, and the alox ones only have 3.

[Max Stone]

Thanks Don Pablo. 

Like the skull and crossbones we have the hook and scissors. 

[magentus]

My question is this - why doesn't Vic and Wenger (as was) add the hollow rivet to each and every SAK? It would give the choice to the user whether they want to add a lanyard or not, no one would have to file off the keyring nub (and maybe later regret it). It's a win-win situation.

Maybe the question should be - Why wouldn't they? 

[Steinar]

My question is this - why doesn't Vic and Wenger (as was) add the hollow rivet to each and every SAK? It would give the choice to the user whether they want to add a lanyard or not, no one would have to file off the keyring nub (and maybe later regret it). It's a win-win situation.

Maybe the question should be - Why wouldn't they? 

Well, I know as little as you do, but here's a handful of talking points: It would require stock twice as many types of pin stock (OK, a 33 ⅓% more, since there are already two different pin dimensions in a typical SAK). It would require an extra type of peening machine/tooling/setting (since I would assume automatic peening of hollow pins can't be done with an identical setting or tooling as massive pins, or simply a more flexible system than you get away with if you know you only peen massive pins). So, as an absolute minimum it introduces logistic overhead to add a feature which makes the knife weaker and adds a new possibility for mistakes in production which currently does not exist, to add a feature I 95% sure only enthusiasts care about. (And not even all enthusiasts. On alox I personally prefer no keyring at all, since I want all the strength I can get from the knife when I opt for alox (so no hollow rivets, and not the current keyring either, which I don't like and find uncomfortable); with Cellidor I'm perfectly fine with the current back spring solution.)

And it's not compatible with hidden rivets, which is a lot more efficient to churn out than visible rivets, since they now can just press the scales on with little worries about precision or need of any finishing touches.

Given the length Vic has gone to cost optimize the product, I think this was one of the features which really had to go. I would guess they saved a lot more per knife on EOLing hollow rivets than they ever would from making the Cellidor scales hollow.

[magentus]

I am just ignoring what you said. 

[magentus]

But actually, thanks Steinar for a very reasoned reply. I can see why they don't do it now.

But I still wish they would.

[nate j]

Like the skull and crossbones we have the hook and scissors. 

Each back spring is designed to accommodate specific tools.  This, along with assembly considerations (i.e. all nail nicks need to be accessible on the assembled knives) is why we typically see the same tool combinations on each back spring, along with the same ordering of layers.  Of course, there are a few sets of tools that are directly interchangeable by design (e.g. corkscrew & back-mounted Phillips, small blade & combo tool), but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

Not to derail this thread with uses for the hook (about which there are separate threads), but suffice it to say I have used my hooks, and there have been times I was glad to have a hook.

Another question would be, "If you were to replace the hook with another tool, what other tool would you prefer?"

On the subject of hooks, though, one thing I don't fully understand is why the plain hook doesn't get retired in favor of the hook w/ nail file on all models.  I expect this would add a modest amount of cost to models that currently have the plain hook, but would certainly add another useful function to all models that currently have the plain hook but no metal file.

[Max Stone]

Are there models with hook/file combo? Makes a lot of sense 

[Mechanickal]

Are there models with hook/file combo? Makes a lot of sense 

Yes, the compact and the extremely large models.

[Don Pablo]

Are there models with hook/file combo? Makes a lot of sense 

The Compact is one.
I think the XLT and bigger have them too.
I think I personally prefer the cleaner look of the smooth hook, but it is a mystery why the hook with nail file is so rarely used.

[MMR]

Why do like 90% of medium to large frame SAKs come with a cork screw and not a Phillips driver?

Yet they pretty much all come with flathead screwdrivers?


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[Max Stone]

Maybe because the corkscrew is such an iconic tool for Victorinox? 

[Mechanickal]

And because the can opener is actualy made as a 2D Philips that actualy works great for that purpose too.

[Max Stone]

 

[Fuzzbucket]

And because the can opener is actualy made as a 2D Philips that actualy works great for that purpose too.

... Meh...

[Mechanickal]

... Meh...

[Fuzzbucket]

Sorry... still meh though...

[Mechanickal]

Sorry... still meh though...

Lol

I do feel as if an inline works better than a T shank...

[Don Pablo]

I remember somebody testing that the backside Philips could only take a small amount of force before it twisted and irreversibly bent the liners.

[Don Pablo]

Found it! 
Vic 111mm Backside Phillips is PANTS!! (that's bad...)

[Max Stone]

I'll stick to a corkscrew. If the screw is that hard to get out, I'd rather just skip the whole thing and drink wine until someone arrives with a proper driver.

 

So outside Evolution and 111mm size, best to look at Hunter, Spartan Lite or Explorer for inline Phillips? Am I missing any from current 91mm line up? 

[MMR]

Found it! 
Vic 111mm Backside Phillips is PANTS!! (that's bad...)

Looks more like a manufacture defect to me

I have used the one in my 111mm Soldier a few times, with no issues other than the fact that it doesn’t lock and it can fold both ways when you apply pressure to it....which I think is a bad design in itself, but that’s for a different discussion


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