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Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices? 1218

Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,756
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2019, 03:43:50 AM »
Huh? I’ve not heard of this. Tell me more...

More wishful dreaming than anything.  Couldn't they tho?  I feel like they could if they wanted to  :dunno:

Esse Quam Videri
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,756
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2019, 03:45:05 AM »
For 32 years I carried a Huntsman.

 :like:  Pretty awesome. 

Esse Quam Videri
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,756
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2019, 03:52:41 AM »
I was trying to be clever with VICtims.  Its honestly been a fun journey.  I enjoy pairing as much as the next.  My Manager is one that seems to go well with most any SAK I've carried.  My PTC is really growing on me more and more.  I thought it was the newness but I've come to really like it.  As for 58mms the Manager and Minichamp are among my favorites.  I'd be interested I Signature.

Farmer is one I also like as much as my SI.  Cadet 2 and 84mm Recruit really are fun to carry.  84mm Tinker or Salesman seem to be ones that I most enjoy but slowly the 84mm Recruit beats out the Tinker for pocket time.  My Explorer might be my longest go to SAK (2013).  I seem to continue to gravitate to it often.  So much so that I finally picked up a backup. 

I've yet to move up to the larger SAKs but I can see the allure.       

Esse Quam Videri
Sr. Member Posts: 359
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2019, 04:06:17 AM »
More wishful dreaming than anything.  Couldn't they tho?  I feel like they could if they wanted to  :dunno:.
I'm sure they could, at a price and if they thought there was sufficient demand. There will be economic reasons why all the 84mm models over two layers have been dropped. I really can't see any new models over that being introduced when the Delemont range exists. It's a shame as I like the 84mm frame as much as you do!

Rambler
Sr. Member Posts: 359
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2019, 04:14:21 AM »
I was trying to be clever with VICtims.  Its honestly been a fun journey.  I enjoy pairing as much as the next.  My Manager is one that seems to go well with most any SAK I've carried.  My PTC is really growing on me more and more.  I thought it was the newness but I've come to really like it.  As for 58mms the Manager and Minichamp are among my favorites.  I'd be interested I Signature.

Farmer is one I also like as much as my SI.  Cadet 2 and 84mm Recruit really are fun to carry.  84mm Tinker or Salesman seem to be ones that I most enjoy but slowly the 84mm Recruit beats out the Tinker for pocket time.  My Explorer might be my longest go to SAK (2013).  I seem to continue to gravitate to it often.  So much so that I finally picked up a backup. 

I've yet to move up to the larger SAKs but I can see the allure.       
If you don't use the "workshop" tools of the bigger knives, I reckon the Explorer is a great EDC choice.  :tu:

I have such an irrational draw towards the Sportsman that I buy used ones at every affordable opportunity. Irrational because I haven't carried one in ages and ages, yet I still really like the model!

A late edit to add about the Explorer. I find it a very excellent kitchen knife. Blades and scissors for cutting open packets; can opener for opening cans :P and hooking hot trays and racks from the oven; flat SD/cap lifter for opening bottles and tightening loose slotted pot handle screws; Phillips SD for tightening loose Phillips pot handle screws; magnifier for reading ingredients and instructions in tiny print; corkscrew if I have wine drinking guests over with corked bottles.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 06:00:44 AM by Sawl Goodman »

Rambler
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,010 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2019, 05:05:30 AM »
Aside from the mods that I still haven't built yet (I keep having second thoughts as to the configurations), I'm pretty settled with what I have. I've tried a lot which have moved on to better homes, and no longer have yearnings for anything that isn't already here (either physically, or conceptually in terms of the pending mods). I've pretty much got an option for every whim, occasion, and combo, be it urban, travel, formal, or lightweight casual. In truth, that's mainly why the mods still aren't built yet, as I already have something for every role.

Urban is Climber-esque. It might be one of the Wenger Travelers, the modified DofE, Climber Small or Salesman.,

Travel is Voyager Lite, a Cybertool, "Brian" (another mod), or whichever pairs best with the plier tool of choice

Formal is stainless Traveller or PTC.

Off the beaten track calls for the Original Outdoorsman, Mega84, CT41, or again whichever pairs best with pliers of choice.

The alox Rambler on the neck lanyard handles lightweight casual.

I've tried the larger framed models, but sold what I had. Never bought a Swisschamp, the CT41 is a better fit for me. The thicker 85mm Wengers didn't work for me either. If anything, I still have too many, but that just means I have spares in case of disaster. Several spares :)




The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Hero Member Posts: 645
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2019, 05:41:05 AM »
My perfect outdoor/survival SAK is the Handyman, and the 111 mm Atlas or the Tradesman. Unfortunately Vic doesn't produce these two last anymore, so the ones a recently required are in my Queen shelf...

The Tradesman is indeed a very cool choice. I bought one many, many years ago from The Heidi-Shop.


--
'Buzz
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,756
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2019, 06:43:03 AM »
The Sportsman looks like a great one.  I carry a Wenger Highlander which I really like.  I keep coming back to the simpler ones.  I carried a Recruit then an Esquire then moved thru many models as we all seem to do.  Lots of variations means lots of SAKs to try. 

What got me thinking was getting my Cyclist.  I carried it and it seemed so great.  I missed scissors so I began to think pairings that made sense.     

Esse Quam Videri
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,657
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2019, 03:52:28 PM »
I like the Highlander too Aloha.  I'm actually a big Wenger fan, especially for the 85mm size.  An 84mm Explorer would probably be perfect, or even a Yeoman.

Barry
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,010 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2019, 03:54:40 PM »
  I missed scissors so I began to think pairings that made sense.   

Buying a Tourist as my first Victorinox taught me to never buy a Swiss knife without scissors. That knife now permanently resides in the kitchen drawer. I genuinely can't remember the last time I carried a Vic or Wenger without scissors.

I've never felt comfortable with pairing two Swiss knives, or two pliers tools, or two traditional knives. I don't carry a Swiss knife plus traditional folder either. I can't help thinking that if I need that second item, my first choice was wrong. I'll happily carry a knife tool plus pliers tool though, but then my pliers tools tend to be knifeless.



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,756
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2019, 03:57:42 PM »
I am appreciating the 84mm and 85mm flavors more and more.  I have been carrying a Wenger Cyclist, Highlander, and PTC, once could say I am really liking Wenger a lot.  I don't see many at the flea market so when I do I like to pick them up. 

Esse Quam Videri
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,756
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2019, 04:18:17 PM »
@AM,  When I used to think about SAKs I thought about the simpler ones.  As my knowledge grew I began to see more and more advantages of having scissors.  I think I picked up my Manager around that time.  Since I always carry it with me I don't feel I always need the larger scissors. 

While I can completely understand your carry thoughts I see advantages of the 58s paired with the larger SAKs.  My smaller SAKs are my detail tools.  The Manager in particular with that excellent phillips.   I treat the blade as a razor blade in use.  The file/flat driver is my glasses tool.  I do use the file for my finger nails at times.  Oh and the pen, what a great convenience. 

My larger SAKs are my tool tools, if that makes sense.  While I told a story of how my Manager punched well above it weight I would not do that again.  Also the larger SAKs just have more variety tool wise. 

I dont use my work SAKs for example for anything but work related things.  I wont cut food for with them.  They are not my "do everything tool". 

Most of my deliberations are centered around what to carry on my off days.  I like so many possibilities and have so many options of which to decide upon.         



 

Esse Quam Videri
Guest

Reece Turner

Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2019, 04:28:40 PM »
Exactly!! That what I want too for EDC. The blades on a Spartan can do what the scissors can, so I don't need scissors. However the pliers are handy when you need that little extra force your fingers can't give you.

My perfect outdoor/survival SAK is the Handyman, and the 111 mm Atlas or the Tradesman. Unfortunately Vic doesn't produce these two last anymore, so the ones a recently required are in my Queen shelf...
I don't like the Outrider model because of the scissors that are rather useless in a survival or outdoor situation.

When I travel by bike I take the Spirit with me. In my car I have a Leatherman Wingman, but I think I will replace it by a LM Rebar. I like the simplicity of it.
For small jobs in and around the house I use a LM Charge TTi.


I agree. I'd pair this 'Super Spartan' with a classic. I think that would cover almost everything you'd need.

However, like you've shown here, there're so many different situations that you need to be prepared for. There's no one tool for everything. Great choices by the way.
No Life Club Posts: 4,207
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2019, 05:51:20 PM »
I would never think 'choice' or the 'seeking' for MTs or SAKs is the "problem", but merely a symptom.  The actual query could be what we believe our MTs or SAKs are meant to do, and a question about "needs vs wants"

I think I've mentioned the same thing in another thread that--I do believe most MTs or SAKs are meant to only address 80% of all our daily quick fix, and it is never meant to replace real tools or tradesman's tool kit.  More so with Victorinox than the other brands, I feel their tools are the perfect embodiment of that belief.  Not saying one tool can cover that 80% for the rest of our lives, since life changes and our needs change with it.  But at any particular point of time, I do believe that feat is entirely feasible if we were to subscribe to that 80% theory.

I think the 'seeking' would only come, whenever we want more than what we really need 80% of time.  Personally, I felt that remaining 20% variance will be almost impossible to address perfectly, unless we all start carrying a Wenger Giant as EDC. :D
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,010 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2019, 06:49:39 PM »
I would never think 'choice' or the 'seeking' for MTs or SAKs is the "problem", but merely a symptom.  The actual query could be what we believe our MTs or SAKs are meant to do, and a question about "needs vs wants"

I think I've mentioned the same thing in another thread that--I do believe most MTs or SAKs are meant to only address 80% of all our daily quick fix, and it is never meant to replace real tools or tradesman's tool kit.  More so with Victorinox than the other brands, I feel their tools are the perfect embodiment of that belief.  Not saying one tool can cover that 80% for the rest of our lives, since life changes and our needs change with it.  But at any particular point of time, I do believe that feat is entirely feasible if we were to subscribe to that 80% theory.

I think the 'seeking' would only come, whenever we want more than what we really need 80% of time.  Personally, I felt that remaining 20% variance will be almost impossible to address perfectly, unless we all start carrying a Wenger Giant as EDC. :D

Good point. Much of my earlier exploration with different tools, was just to try out the various functions. Sometimes they saved a trip for a dedicated tool, but it wasn't always worth carrying a larger tool for the frequency of each implement being needed. As time went by, I started to get a better appreciation of what was useful, vs what was baggage.

For example, as soon as I had sold the boat, a saw became less frequently needed. It's extremely rare I'll use a pocket tool saw now. There are times when I like to have one, but most of the time, it's unnecessary bulk and weight for me. Bit kits are the same now, but there was a time when I'd nearly always have one close by. However, even when I needed fully laden pocket tools, they weren't always enough tool for the job. If I ever needed a file, I usually needed a proper one, not a multitool.

I think we all go through similar evaluations, to find our own preferred formulas. Also, as circumstances change, so does the equation of what pocket tools are needed. It was always fascinating at the UK meet, getting to understand not just what people carried, but why. What might be utterly useless for me, was essential to another, and vice versa.

I can totally understand why some people find pairing of knives to be beneficial, even though it would go against the grain and be extremely irritating to do so myself. It's no different to other tool choices though, such as what plier tools we love or hate, pocket carry or belt carry,carbon or stainless,  corkscrew or phillips, or any of the other polarising standpoints.

That's why we need so many choices through, because the world is populated by very different individuals. The knack is to understand yourself and your own needs, and then pick tools to suit - although sometimes you have to go through a few tools that don't work for you, before you start to understand why.



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Hero Member Posts: 578
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2019, 07:06:39 PM »
Quite much concept is knife layer, openers layer and stuff between as much as willing to carry. So basically I would take openers, knives and scissors layers to get best of vic. Quite much pioneer x. Other tools are more or less single purpose tools. Though in one layer there can be different tools like phillips / magnifier layer. So I see variations like vic concept plus selected single purpose tools in same package.
No Life Club Posts: 1,222
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2019, 09:36:31 PM »
I try to keep my on person carry light and avoid pairing but right now I'm finding myself stuck with three knives, two of which serve almost exactly the same purpose. I'm generally not a fan of pairing tools but I'm willing to make an exception when the sizes get enough different as in the case of 91/58 mm. I tend to stick to a pretty minimalist load-out though (Spartan+Classic) but right now I find myself with a Classic and an old Companion (with the older file but a slightly inferior pair of scissors and without the T&T). Just enough overlapping pros/cons that I can't decide on just one of them. Hopefully I will make some progress in getting "the perfect SAK" this summer and be able to incorporate the T&T into my Spartan and get rid of the Classic
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,657
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2019, 10:19:30 PM »
Most of my deliberations are centered around what to carry on my off days.  I like so many possibilities and have so many options of which to decide upon.         
Picking out what to carry on my off days is one of my biggest decisions Aloha!  Choices, choices :facepalm:

Barry
Wielder of the Bow of Banishment. Admin Team Point Of No Return Posts: 31,248 El Presidente del Fan Club Micky D
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2019, 01:21:46 AM »
I'll be honest and say I could probably be happy with just a Huntsman and the other 40 or so SAKs I have are just for fun. :D  Seriously though; having choices is a nice place to be and between what's on offer and mods I can't think there a SAK that I don't own that I want. :shrug:

Try not to be the person who blunders around and causes everyone else to get out the way.  Everyone else thinks you're a utter...
Sr. Member Posts: 272
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2019, 02:07:36 AM »
During many years my EDC was a Mountaineer and a Gerber Flik.
The mountaineer covered many of my daily uses.


Enviado de meu moto g(6) usando o Tapatalk

No Life Club Posts: 1,151
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2019, 02:35:54 AM »
I went for about 2 years carrying only one SAK, an Explorer plus mod where I swapped the scissors and hook for a saw and fine screwdriver. Then a combination of urge to downsize, dissatisfaction with the inline phillips and just general boredom made me start buying more SAKs again. It's a disease :ahhh
No Life Club Posts: 4,207
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2019, 10:12:15 AM »
Picking out what to carry on my off days is one of my biggest decisions Aloha!  Choices, choices :facepalm:

That being the privileged problem of MTO member and tools connoisseur  :like: :D
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,616 Τετραφάρμακος
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2019, 10:14:03 AM »
That's why I carried a Swisschamp since 1986 and now an XLT or Spirit plus a scissored Alox. I too believe they do it on purpose, not producing anything that covers all needs. Capitalism depends on consumerism. If we won't consume, then the market dies and companies mind die also, if they won't succeed to persuade us that we "need" another product.
Newbie Posts: 30
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2019, 10:58:34 AM »
My perfect SAK would be a Spartan with pliers. I wish that was a thing.

So... a Leatherman Sidekick???

I’m kidding)

I also suffer from this, but it’s not limited to SAKs. Every time I find the perfect mt+SAK combo, I realize I’m missing something critical, like a magnifying glass.

The fact I absolutely adore alox scales but can’t go an hour without getting a splinter doesn’t help one bit...
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,756
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2019, 04:38:14 PM »
It's neat to hear about YOUR favorite SAK and what YOU'VE carried for so many years.  Change happens so do our choices.  Jobs, mobility, hobbies, even finances which can also effect our SAK choices.  With a lot of variety theres no wonder theres a SAK for everyone.  The modders have taken this to the next level which is also neat.       

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 2,422 Douglas's papa
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2019, 06:06:47 PM »
I'm retired for several years now, but I find myself still carrying the old standby that I used when Noah & I built his bass boat. That is the SwissChamp, It dosen't receive the beating that I gave my Champs while still working but I just don't feel fully dressed without it. Since retirement I am carrying more not less. I have added the mini champ & sometimes even the Spirit, wish I had known about that one years ago.
 I pretty well have all the pocket tools I want plus extras so not looking for more but I would buy a SwissChamp with alox scales ............(sigh). :facepalm:

Shoot low sheriff, they're riddin' shetlands
SAKMC unit number BR549
137% Redneck
I would like to apologise to anyone I have not offended. Please be patient, I will get to you shortly.
Just a small personal observation.  ...........I would not be at all surprised that when God created the Earth & the heavens, that the SwissChamp was the tool he used. .............. :hatsoff:
Wielder of the Bow of Banishment. Admin Team Point Of No Return Posts: 31,248 El Presidente del Fan Club Micky D
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2019, 07:23:36 PM »
During many years my EDC was a Mountaineer and a Gerber Flik.
The mountaineer covered many of my daily uses.


Enviado de meu moto g(6) usando o Tapatalk

That's a nice sounding combination.  The two things a Flik really misses is a file and a usable can opening and the Mountaineer has both of those well covered.  :hatsoff:

Try not to be the person who blunders around and causes everyone else to get out the way.  Everyone else thinks you're a utter...
No Life Club Posts: 1,205
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2019, 08:27:00 PM »
Each time I "settle" on a SAK I see someone post a picture of one that I was not familiar with only to want it.  I thought the "perfect" SAK was blade, scissors, openers, in 84mm.  Then the Cyclist finds me or me it  :think:.  No scissors but doggone it that wrench.  I was primarily a Manager user but the PTC came to me or me it  :dunno: it gets confusing.  Are SAKs just meant to pair?  I envy those who have carried ONE dedicated SAK for years, decades.  Collectors aside for a moment, I'm talking about those who truly want to find the "perfect" SAK.  Even with those who customize a SAK it seems they still seek.  I think this was the brilliant intention of this company.  Offer just enough options but NOT all possibilities.  We'd inevitably want to PAIR them.   

Well played, well played.    :hatsoff:

What we are victims of, is very brilliant marketing backed up with psychological studies in depth as t what makes people buy more of. Ass in the forums are also in the same business and people are being manipulated into buying what they don't really need, or buying what they already have an adequate amount of. Forums are sponsored by companies selling stuff. Thats way they call them sponsored ads.

They have it all figured out how to stimulate our desire to 'keep up with the Jones.' Car industry, gun industry, knife industry, clothing industry, figure outlaw tomato up just like the cat that will lunge at a jiggling piece of twine. I found out of I sty away from the forums for a length of time, my desire to buy goes way way down. When I leave for a vacation and fly someplace with just a recruit in my bag or mailed to myself, I'll roam all over with just that one SAK in my pocket cleaning fish, cutting bait, and then slicing limes for the cold vodka tonic. If I have a package to open, whatever pocket knife I have on me will do.

How many people really need a 5,000 pound plus V8 engined SUV to run down the grocery store, or commute to work, or even to go visit family several state away? It's all abut sales, and the right button being pushed on your ego to make you buy bigger and more expensive. How did our fathers and grandfathers get through a great depression, fight a vicious world war, and then come home and go about the job of raising a family and dealing with life with just a regular sedan, a regular little pocketknife combined with a Sears keychain screw driver and a P-38 on the keyring? Used to be if a person wanted to protect themselves they got a .38 revolver. If they wanted to carry , then they got a snub nosed .38. If they wanted smaller, they got one of the little .25 autos on the market like the baby Growing or a Beretta jet fire. Now the gun industry has the gun nuts thinking they need a Glock 17 and at least three spare magazines to just go get the mail. It's all marketing.

The ugly truth is, the average Joe human being is not that bright a bulb in the chandelier, and falls for advertising claims of the ridiculous nature. I used to, but for whatever reason, I got burnout on the consumerism of it. Now I just have three SAK.s and I get through my day still alive and functioning. I've sold off most my gun collection, the knife collection is gone, as is the tool collection. I have a basic tool box, a few guns, and a few SAK's. Theres one car each for the better half and I. The car collection of old VW bugs is gone, as is the Vespa motor scooter collection. I do miss the old Vespa PX150 now and then.

It's a trap. A very dangerous and clever trap. Not to mention an expensive trap. Try an experiment; stay away from the forums for two weeks. Or even a month.

Don't get too serious, just enough will do.
Full Member Posts: 245
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2019, 06:25:36 AM »
What keeps me from buying up more models is bringing to remembrance my question to a poster on here from Switzerland : what do the Swiss mostly carry ? The answer ? Most of them carry a Soldier or Pioneer model.

"The older I get, the better I was".
Sr. Member Posts: 272
Re: Are we VICtims of the vast amount of choices?
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2019, 03:25:11 PM »
That's a nice sounding combination.  The two things a Flik really misses is a file and a usable can opening and the Mountaineer has both of those well covered.  :hatsoff:
Still the best pair for me.
I really like them both. The mountaineer have all tools that I need and isn't bulky to my jeans pocket.
(Fidgeting the Flik is a pleasure)

Enviado de meu moto g(6) usando o Tapatalk


 

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