84mm SAK custom

James Downey · **on:** October 29, 2019, 02:48:10 AM

Hey all. I'm modifying this after reading a few more articles.

After noting that my childhood Recruit is in need of repair I recently stumbled on this whole world of SAK modding while looking up how to replace scales. Still falling down the rabbit hole on this and wanting to make my own custom. But I'd prefer not to destroy numerous SAKs in the making if I can help it. And I want to stick with 84mm.

So for people with more experience, I need to know which parts of my "want list" are incompatible/pipe dream at the moment, as well as some supply up-lines. Feel free to chime in on any of the questions, but "leave that to the professionals" is not constructive.

I like the 84mm model for nostalgia and how it sits in my 5th pocket. If I can figure it out, I'm planning 2 separate customs for my own EDC rotation: Urban and Woods carry.

General Construction:
Screw together.
Micarta scales over original frame.
Pocket clip.

Here's the materials I have so far:
84mm Small Tinker
84mm Walker
58mm Rally
1/8in Canvas Micarta
Epoxy (prefer not to use this).

1) Is there any legit source for 2.2mm pivot barrels? I'm happy to buy 100 if they are reasonably priced, although would rather go in with someone else as I don't see myself going into any sort of production mode.

I've seen 84mm models that are screw-together all over instagram, so I know it's possible. I don't want to use pin/peening. I know DeCustom Forge has pivots for the larger model (2.5mm and 3mm). If I want screw-together, will I have to drill out everything to 2.5mm or is there a simpler/more precise way of doing it?

2) I'm reading a lot about issues with springs and not being able to switch 84mm tools around on new 84mm springs without major modification or custom springs. Is this just an issue when adding complicated things like scissors (I have no desire for scissors), or would I have issues adding an electrician blade in place of a main blade?

3) Here's a general poll question: Can I mount a pocket clip onto only 1/8in micarta in a sturdy way? I've never worked with micarta that thin before and am concerned with how it will hold onto a screw.

4) Can 58mm tools be added to 84mm models? If so, how much modification is required? I'm wanting to add the caplifter/phillips from the 58mm Rally onto a 84mm frame.

5) This is a curiosity reach. Has anyone ever mounted the cybertool bit-driver/caddy to an 84mm frame?

6) Does an 84mm wood saw need its own layer, or can it share with a small tool? Can it be mounted with a backtool, or will the backtool spring come in contact with the saw blade?

Cheers,
James

Aloha · **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2019, 06:04:45 AM

Welcome. I do hope our resident expert modder come along soon. In the mean time as I'm sure you have already have a look around as I'm sure the answers cannot be too far away. I do know there are some fitment issues when trying to combine different size SAKs. In some cases not possible at all.

Its been a while since I've read thru the mod threads. Good luck.

Mechanickal · **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2019, 07:05:41 AM

Welcome!

1) your best bet is to buy 2.2mm brass rods and drill them on a lathe.
You can thread them after.

If you do plan to use off-the-shelf barrels (which are hard to come by) that are 2.5mm, you'd need to drill out the tools, springs and liners.

2) usually springs issues pop up when someone is switching tools around or tries to add tools from another size.

Putting the electrician's blade in the main blade position, is likely something that would need you to reprofile the spring.

3) no experience, but I'd have it screwed into the first liner and fixed with epoxy on the micarta.

4) thinking big!

Again no experience, but I think it's highly unlikely this will work.
Others will chime in.

5) I highly doubt it.

6) The saw will have it's own layer if you're using an old 84mm saw.
If you're reworking a blade backspring for it, you might be able to put something on the backside but I'm not a reliable source on that.

James Downey · **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2019, 08:00:32 PM

Thanks for the replies.

I had that same epoxy inspiration on the scales/clip thing in the shower this morning (TMI?). I'm nervous about epoxy with moving parts, but attaching clip to scale/liner prior to re-attaching sounds like a good compromise.

I love that magnetized small phillips/caplifter as part of an urban carry package and as alternative to a full cybertool. But I want more tools/function than the 58mm. I'm just getting back into EDC, but work in a professional job where larger than 84mm just wouldn't work. I'm searching all over the forum, but keep the good ideas coming. I think I'm leaning toward trying to find a way to lathe-drill through brass rod and then hand thread them if I can't find someone that does them. I've seen a few people years ago talking about finding them in China, but I can't find anyone doing them.

Max Stone · **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2019, 09:13:21 PM

Welcome James to

I’ll just comment of the post/pivot question as I’m only doing 93mm mods, but I investigated this too when starting out.

I could not find any 2.2mm off the shelf barrels, and by the time you drill out the tools (which is a real PIA), the effort does not justify the benefit...so I fell back to the tried and tested rod peening. Sure, you can’t break down the SAK once assembled, but it never needs adjustment and is super reliable. Also looks better imo.

But find something that works for you and what you want to do. We look forward to seeing your mods!

Mechanickal · **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2019, 09:32:41 PM

Those are some great peens, Max

Max Stone · **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2019, 09:41:18 PM

Getting there, patience and practice...

James Downey · **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2019, 02:21:00 AM

Quote from: Max Stone on October 29, 2019, 09:13:21 PM

Welcome James to

I’ll just comment of the post/pivot question as I’m only doing 93mm mods, but I investigated this too when starting out.

I could not find any 2.2mm off the shelf barrels, and by the time you drill out the tools (which is a real PIA), the effort does not justify the benefit...so I fell back to the tried and tested rod peening. Sure, you can’t break down the SAK once assembled, but it never needs adjustment and is super reliable. Also looks better imo.

But find something that works for you and what you want to do. We look forward to seeing your mods!

Thanks Max. I was actually thinking about the reliability of peened rods when it comes to being out in the field. I personally like the look of screwed together custom SAKs and am afraid of having to disassemble a peened model if I don't fit it together perfectly (tool rub, tension issues, etc). But I'd also hate to have the piece loosen in the field or loose a screw. And you do make peened rods look good

Out of curiosity, why do people recommend brass pivots? I assume brass is easier to peen due to softness. Is HSS impossible to peen?

Max Stone · **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2019, 05:15:27 AM

Probably not impossible, but to get the deformation just on the end would be difficult. Also, as the outside frame you are pinning together is Aluminum, already a soft material, it’s best to match the rivet material with something compatible. Brass also has some flex to take up any minor distortion/miss-alignment across the tools, is corrosion resistant and has an inherent lubricating function at the pivot point of the tools.

decustomforge · **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2019, 04:33:55 AM

Hi, James! In fact, drilling up to 2.5 is not as difficult as drilling holes up to 3.175 mm, as most do. You need to decide what you want to see on the outside of the scales, if you can carefully rivet and polish the brass rod, then most likely it will be a more suitable solution, so as not to spoil the design, but I yesterday collected my mod on standard scales and 2.5 mm pivots, it looks and works very well, I plan to make some titanium scales for the 84 mm model

Simyo · **Reply #10 on:** November 16, 2019, 07:55:22 AM

Depending on how many saks you disassemble you can use the middle pins from 91mm knives.

The bit driver is too long to fit, it also uses super thick liners since there is a lot of torque on them. I hadn’t thought of this but I’d love to see it done now.

The standard 84mm saw spring doesn’t have backside tools. However, if you see the tutorial on how to use two 91mm scissor springs To make one on an 84mm. You can do a similar method with 91mm saw springs to use backside tools. Backside tools are the same length on 84mm and 91mm.

Depending on the density of the micarta you can probably thread a pocket clip into it.

Chances are to use pivots you will have to drill them out. Few easier methods, but less precise. The truth of the matter is you will probably never take it apart for cleaning or any maintenance. They’re not always the easiest things to assemble, due to spring tension.

WDY · **Reply #11 on:** November 26, 2019, 01:55:24 AM

James
You’re asking all the right questions all at once. To work the tools with 2.2 holes up to 2.5 is very easy with a solid carbide reamer. Someone here on the forum recommended this and I have used one for several years. Available online from SuperToolinc.com but must use in a drill press as the solid carbide is brittle. You will probably be ok touching up the springs with a small needle file set to allow for the bigger pins if you go the 2.5 mm route.

I learned about through-pin preening here on the forums and it’s a really neat “old school” trick that’s not really that hard. Scary but not hard. You could practice on some old red scales drilled through. Enclosed some pix of peened scales, all 84mm.

MarkW · **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2020, 10:51:25 PM

2.2mm diameter (Ø) is very close to metric 4mm² wire gauge Ø (2.26mm/0.089" Ø which is just a hair smaller than AWG 11 gauge Ø of 2.3mm/0.0907"). Searching for 4mm² sometimes locates additional sources. As mentioned elsewhere in the forum, Conrad International sells 2.2mm brass rods and, as of Jan 2020, their price is €2.49 for 500mm; but, Conrad doesn't ship to

USA and it's territories, Canada, China, Russia, Iran nor Kosovo. It's probably possible to use a shipping forwarder.

For hollow barrels, that forum thread also suggests searching for "single hole EDM drill electrode" and, sure enough, 2.2mm Ø is available. One Amazon listing shows they cost US$20 (+ $10 S&H) for 20 pieces 300mm each.

Jspiggle · **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2020, 11:07:48 PM

58mm tools arent thick enough to fit inline in an 84, 91, 93mm frame.

If anyone can think of a way I would love to brainstorm. Custom spring would probably work but I was also thinking maybe you could bolt/rivet/weld an extra piece of metal onto the top of the spring to fill in the space. Not sure

You can put the combo tool on the back tools like https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,83668.0.html but at that point you wouldnt be able to use the bottle opener so you may as well just use the small tinker phillips.

James Downey · **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2020, 07:02:46 PM

Quote from: Jspiggle on January 17, 2020, 11:07:48 PM

58mm tools arent thick enough to fit inline in an 84, 91, 93mm frame.

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

If anyone can think of a way I would love to brainstorm. Custom spring would probably work but I was also thinking maybe you could bolt/rivet/weld an extra piece of metal onto the top of the spring to fill in the space. Not sure

You can put the combo tool on the back tools like https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,83668.0.html but at that point you wouldnt be able to use the bottle opener so you may as well just use the small tinker phillips.

Thanks for the visual. I had basically arrived there by just taking a closer look at the mechanisms on the few SAKs I have (rambler, small tinker, lumberjack, executive, recruit). If it's possible to drill the hole to 2.2mm without structurally damaging the smaller rambler combo tool, then using a scissors spring ground down might work?

I also make scrap the idea for now and add the tool onto my 74mm executive since the tool sizes look more similar. Has anyone done this?

James Downey · **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2020, 06:54:59 AM

Here's a new thought. Could that 58mm philips combo tool be added in the same type position that the old long file backtool was in? I believe it has its own separate pivot at the end.

ddogu · **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2020, 10:19:09 AM

jaya_man · **Reply #17 on:** March 15, 2020, 05:17:12 AM

I would refrain from using 2.2mm pivot barrels and just use solid pins... As they are hollow in construction, even 2.5mm and 3mm barrels are not strong enough to take withstand backspring tension... Unless you make the screws go all the way in and touch each other to fill the void... where the screw ends meet should be in the middle of liner or tool pivot holes...

For using pivot barrels, 1/8 inch or 3.2mm barrels are best as they have thicker walls...