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Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?

SuzukiGS750EZ · 31 · 3424
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us Offline SuzukiGS750EZ

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Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
on: January 05, 2020, 04:16:18 PM
Hey guys. I have a swisschamp with the old style magnifying glass and file. The back springs on it are very stout and none of the tools rub. I just got a newer style swisschamp with the updated file and magnifying GLASS, and the fish disgorger, saw and file all rub. The Phillip's driver has such a weak spring minimal pressure pushes it into the layer and all the other tools don't have the "snap" I'm used to. I'm sending it back but in the mean time I figured I'd get some opinions on the situation and see if I'm merely expecting too much.

us Offline Barry Rowland

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #1 on: January 05, 2020, 11:53:16 PM
I've had both, and only have the gray frame now.  The feel overall of the newer model just isn't the same.  I agree with you completely.
Barry
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us Offline SuzukiGS750EZ

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #2 on: January 06, 2020, 12:12:22 AM
That's disappointing to say the least...

be Offline Top-Gear-24

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #3 on: January 06, 2020, 02:23:47 AM
I own old and new Swisschamps and the only difference in snap that I've noticed was on the magnifying glass of the "all plastic" magnifying glass ones, while the old "grey plastic with glass lens" ones as well as the latest "clear plastic housing with glass lens" both have a nice snap.

The spring on the Phillips driver is super strong on all of them and I only had one case of tool rubbing on a SAK, and that was the saw on one of my boys his "my first Victorinox", which would get caught on the scale when closing it.  Went back to the store and got a new one a couple of weeks later (since they were out of stock in the store, else they would've exchanged it on the spot).

Tools rubbing on a SAK is not normal, I hope it was a one time screw up from Victorinox, they are the only tools I still buy online, just because they are always flawless (at least until now...  :ahhh).
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us Offline SuzukiGS750EZ

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #4 on: January 06, 2020, 02:28:47 AM
Victorinox is probably the only knife/tool I trust straight out of the box. This is the first I've had issues with. I'm hoping the second one that will be here Tuesday is 100%. Hope for me! Lol.

be Offline Top-Gear-24

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #5 on: January 06, 2020, 02:32:54 AM
Quote from: SuzukiGS750EZ on January 06, 2020, 02:28:47 AM
Victorinox is probably the only knife/tool I trust straight out of the box. This is the first I've had issues with. I'm hoping the second one that will be here Tuesday is 100%. Hope for me! Lol.

I hope so too  :D.

If that one feels the same as the first one it could mean that even Victorinox is finally giving up on fit and finish, which would be devastating for a lot of people (myself included).
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us Offline BadMechanic

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #6 on: January 06, 2020, 02:36:42 AM
Id have to check mine when Id get home but IIRC from last time I used it, none of that rubbed. I got mine 4 or 5 months ago brand new. Couldve just been a lemon.

Hope your new one is better!

be Offline Top-Gear-24

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #7 on: January 06, 2020, 02:40:09 AM
Quote from: BadMechanic on January 06, 2020, 02:36:42 AM
Id have to check mine when Id get home but IIRC from last time I used it, none of that rubbed. I got mine 4 or 5 months ago brand new. Couldve just been a lemon.

Hope your new one is better!

I got a Cybertool 41 and a Cybertool Lite from my wife and kids last Christmas, and they were 100% okay as well, which seemed only normal to me at the time  ;).
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us Offline cody6268

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #8 on: January 06, 2020, 04:40:53 AM
Went to the box my SwissChamp (mid 1990s), Marlboro Outdoorsman (roughly same age as SwissChamp), and Champion (made in 2017 or 2018) were in, and opened and closed the Phillips on all three. Noticed the drivers did NOT snap as well on the Champion as did the SwissChamp and Outdoorsman. Of those, I use the SwissChamp and Outdoorsman, but mostly carry the Outdoorsman. SwissChamp mostly handles around the house stuff.

Honestly, I like the newer file. It actually works on metal, instead of being an overglorified nail file.  But, the mag lens on the newer ones is not as good, and the Phillips has less reach. Being into small scale vehicles, I use the magnifying lens for checking small details and variations, and of course the Phillips gets used a lot.

But in terms of snap, nothing (well, Alox comes close) matches the snap of my 1942 Soldier. That thing will take a finger off. And, it appears to have been treated really rough, and not maintained, but still snaps that hard. Vic definitely doesn't build them like they used to. But, comparing a 1960s Case and a Case made relatively recently (2014) and Vics of the same vintage, the difference between the new and old Case is much more noticeable than the new and old SAK. I think Case, when they really weren't focusing on collectibles, did a better job.
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ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #9 on: January 06, 2020, 08:28:04 AM
Quote from: cody6268 on January 06, 2020, 04:40:53 AM
But in terms of snap, nothing (well, Alox comes close) matches the snap of my 1942 Soldier. That thing will take a finger off. And, it appears to have been treated really rough, and not maintained, but still snaps that hard. Vic definitely doesn't build them like they used to. But, comparing a 1960s Case and a Case made relatively recently (2014) and Vics of the same vintage, the difference between the new and old Case is much more noticeable than the new and old SAK. I think Case, when they really weren't focusing on collectibles, did a better job.
Maybe they don't have that snap anymore because it's not necessary for a reliable tool? :shrug:
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
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ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #10 on: January 06, 2020, 09:11:05 AM
Good point Pabs  :tu:

I had the saw hitting the liner on my '91 SwissChamp. However, the snap compared to my 2018 CT41 is equally good  :dunno:
The snap on my late '70s Climber is a tad weeker.
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de Offline ulzhan

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #11 on: January 06, 2020, 10:30:50 AM
The Phillips has a really weak snap. But it works. But there's no tool rub.

Maybe you got a Monday Model?
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us Offline SuzukiGS750EZ

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #12 on: January 06, 2020, 12:43:13 PM
Maybe. I gave one to my brother, the plastic lens generation. It has strong springs. As does my huntsman lite. I've never had tools rub though. I guess we'll see tomorrow.

us Offline Aloha

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #13 on: January 06, 2020, 12:56:35 PM
I've only ever had older SCs so I cannot comment on the snap.  Tool rub however I've had on a few SAKs. 
Esse Quam Videri
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00 Offline Simon_Templar

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #14 on: January 06, 2020, 09:07:11 PM
Quote from: ulzhan on January 06, 2020, 10:30:50 AM
The Phillips has a really weak snap. But it works. But there's no tool rub.

Maybe you got a Monday Model?

Ulzhan,

I seem to remember you are using a XLT, correct? I noticed my own XLT's Philips has quite a weak snap as well, whereas on all my Swisschamps the Philips snap just fine. 
When deploying and folding the XLT's Philips it also has kind of a "bony" feel, less smooth than the actions of the Swisschamps' Philips. Might this be related to the XLT's construction? My Explorer's Philips feels like the Swisschamps' ones.

Cheers,

Simon

de Offline ulzhan

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #15 on: January 06, 2020, 10:39:22 PM
Hi Simon,

that's correct. My XLTs Phillips is very weak while deploying. Don't know if it's the same on a regular SC. I don't have any SC for comparison.

But: The first three layers (openers, magnifier/phillips, pliers) are exactly the same on the SC XLT and also on the SC. Maybe it has something to do with old and new phillips.

Greetings,

ulzhan
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us Offline ElevenBlade

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #16 on: January 06, 2020, 11:02:05 PM
I just checked my Swisschamp, which is only 2 years old - the half stop and most certainly the open position for the Phillips has much more retention compared to my mid-90s Champion.   I have a feeling that a modification to keep the tool open when in use has a lot to do with why the closing snap is less... snappy. 
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us Offline CraftsmanSAK

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #17 on: January 07, 2020, 01:23:02 AM
I've collected a lot of SAK's and rehabbed a bunch of them.  On some of them I've noticed one tool can throw everything else out of whack and put enough tension on some or all other tools to kill the snap.  Some of them I've been lucky and bent them back in line very carefully and then all the other tools on that pin would have good snap again.  (I would have done as you on a brand new one though and returned it).
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us Offline SuzukiGS750EZ

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #18 on: January 08, 2020, 12:11:11 AM
Well, the second one has better snap and no contact with the implements. Now the magnifying glass worries me because I now see how its held in. Lol

us Offline ElevenBlade

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #19 on: January 08, 2020, 02:29:05 AM
Quote from: SuzukiGS750EZ on January 08, 2020, 12:11:11 AM
Well, the second one has better snap and no contact with the implements. Now the magnifying glass worries me because I now see how its held in. Lol

That's good... I hope.

I didn't have the contact issue... since you pointed it out, I definitely noticed the difference with the Phillips.  I actually consider that an improvement from the old model... Harder to close accidentally during use.  (though what I found may not be what you are describing)
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us Offline SuzukiGS750EZ

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #20 on: January 08, 2020, 02:46:40 AM
The first Phillips was almost like a combo of weak spring tension and tools being too tight, though everything functioned fine and opened smooth.

us Offline SuzukiGS750EZ

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #21 on: January 08, 2020, 03:45:41 AM
I noticed this though...

I bought the older champ at the same time the plastic lens was out on the market. Bought it brand new from a victorinox dealer (don't remember which).

Top is new one. Bottom is old one with older file/ magnifying glass.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 05:11:08 AM by SuzukiGS750EZ »

Offline zenderfall

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #22 on: January 08, 2020, 04:55:26 AM
Quote from: cody6268 on January 06, 2020, 04:40:53 AM
, and the Phillips has less reach.

This is the primary reason I like the older SwissChamps.  Upon careful observation, the screwdriver didn't have to be shortened, as there is no clearance issue.  I think its more of cost-cutting.

us Offline SuzukiGS750EZ

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #23 on: January 08, 2020, 05:10:15 AM
Quote from: zenderfall on January 08, 2020, 04:55:26 AM
This is the primary reason I like the older SwissChamps.  Upon careful observation, the screwdriver didn't have to be shortened, as there is no clearance issue.  I think its more of cost-cutting.
I noticed this tonight as well and had the same thought.

ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #24 on: January 08, 2020, 08:53:17 AM
Quote from: zenderfall on January 08, 2020, 04:55:26 AM
This is the primary reason I like the older SwissChamps.  Upon careful observation, the screwdriver didn't have to be shortened, as there is no clearance issue.  I think its more of cost-cutting.
It's pretty expensive to change the machine moulds and such.... :think:
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ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #25 on: January 08, 2020, 09:44:42 AM
The Phillips had to be shortened so one can reach the knob of the magnifying glass to open it  :dunno:
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au Offline Krayakin

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #26 on: January 08, 2020, 11:50:31 AM
Only difference I have noticed is the magnifying glass falling out. So I have since super glued it in and its all good now. No other issues. I use mine daily and snap is still strong as ever.

au Offline Krayakin

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #27 on: January 08, 2020, 12:04:00 PM
Quote from: ElevenBlade on January 06, 2020, 11:02:05 PM
I just checked my Swisschamp, which is only 2 years old - the half stop and most certainly the open position for the Phillips has much more retention compared to my mid-90s Champion.   I have a feeling that a modification to keep the tool open when in use has a lot to do with why the closing snap is less... snappy.

This also I have found on my newer one.

Offline zenderfall

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #28 on: January 08, 2020, 07:18:50 PM
Quote from: McStitchy on January 08, 2020, 09:44:42 AM
The Phillips had to be shortened so one can reach the knob of the magnifying glass to open it  :dunno:

That certainly makes sense, although if it was me I'd have designed the magnifier knob slightly lower (closer towards the pivot) instead of shortening the screwdriver. 

ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Newer swisschamp, lesser quality?
Reply #29 on: January 08, 2020, 08:27:20 PM
Quote from: zenderfall on January 08, 2020, 07:18:50 PM
That certainly makes sense, although if it was me I'd have designed the magnifier knob slightly lower (closer towards the pivot) instead of shortening the screwdriver. 
Could entirely be possible, but might introduce leverage issues or there might not be thick enough rim.
Maybe someone should try!
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