Cons

[Edi]

Hey guys.
Because i don't own all of the multitools and do not intend to, i would appreciate your input about cons on the following toys:
Surge
Charge
Wave
St300
Swisstool
St spirit
On some of them i drew my own conclusions out, but would like to hear more.
The purpose is to find out if i had bad luck with some, if maybe i push a little too far, or if i actually need a custom one.
Thank you very much

[Don Pablo]

That covers a lot.
Do you want light, medium or heavy duty?
Any specific requirements?

[cody6268]

Surge: Weight and bulk. You'll need either the pocket clip or a belt sheath to carry it. It is not really a pocket carry tool at all. I dislike all LMs with outside opening tools due to their propensity to have the tops of the other tools to cut into my hand. IT has the bit driver, meaning any of LMs bits can be used.

Charges can be expensive, depending on how you've got them configured.  Some have higher end blade steels (S30V), and many have the cutting hook on the serrated blade, a seriously handy tool. I've not justified their cost, so I have yet to own a Charge. The Cabela's orange G-10 is my favorite, but I can't really afford $180 USD. I plan to travel to the Cabela's about two hours from here to check one out in person this summer.



Wave. Same cutting into my hand while using the blades with heavy pressure issue with the Surge. But, I can carry it all day clipped to my pocket.  No awl, which is a tool I require. Leatherman recently produced a model for Dutch law enforcement which is perfect--awl in place of can opener; cutting hook serrated blade from Charge. Unfortunately, not sold to the public.

ST300; my farmwork tool. I am carrying mine now., in a MOLLE XL sheath threaded onto my belt. A very tough tool, easy to use with gloves. My complaints are that some of the smaller drivers are  soft--I've twisted the smallest once twice. Weight is an issue here too. Normally I carry a Rebar, but had recently misplaced it, so I'm back to the ST300.  There's a removable bit adapter that either alone, or fitted to the Phillips screwdriver, allows you to use both LM and 1/4" drive screwdriver bits.

SwissTool. I have one of these as well. Just as tough as the Super Tool, but with typical Swiss finish. A little thinner and lighter than the ST300.   Mine does have a common flaw in that the pliers handles don't line up. One of my complaints with SAK drivers in general (including the SwissTool) is that they are a little too highly polished.  But, higher quality and better finished than most Leathermans I have owned. Good tool selection and design as well. I just can't open it with gloves on.

Spirit. If the SwissTool is too heavy, I think you'll like it. I don't own one yet, but hope too. It can be had with scissors, as can the SwissTool. The good thing about Swiss MTs is that both the Spirit and SwissTool have lots of variants.  The SuperTool has just three: standard, EOD, and the new "M" intended for firearms enthusiasts and the military.

Just do what I do, if you find

[Edi]

That covers a lot.
Do you want light, medium or heavy duty?
Any specific requirements?

Heavy. Well, multitool heavy duty 

[Edi]

Surge: Weight and bulk. You'll need either the pocket clip or a belt sheath to carry it. It is not really a pocket carry tool at all. I dislike all LMs with outside opening tools due to their propensity to have the tops of the other tools to cut into my hand. IT has the bit driver, meaning any of LMs bits can be used.

Charges can be expensive, depending on how you've got them configured.  Some have higher end blade steels (S30V), and many have the cutting hook on the serrated blade, a seriously handy tool. I've not justified their cost, so I have yet to own a Charge. The Cabela's orange G-10 is my favorite, but I can't really afford $180 USD. I plan to travel to the Cabela's about two hours from here to check one out in person this summer.



Wave. Same cutting into my hand while using the blades with heavy pressure issue with the Surge. But, I can carry it all day clipped to my pocket.  No awl, which is a tool I require. Leatherman recently produced a model for Dutch law enforcement which is perfect--awl in place of can opener; cutting hook serrated blade from Charge. Unfortunately, not sold to the public.

ST300; my farmwork tool. I am carrying mine now., in a MOLLE XL sheath threaded onto my belt. A very tough tool, easy to use with gloves. My complaints are that some of the smaller drivers are  soft--I've twisted the smallest once twice. Weight is an issue here too. Normally I carry a Rebar, but had recently misplaced it, so I'm back to the ST300.  There's a removable bit adapter that either alone, or fitted to the Phillips screwdriver, allows you to use both LM and 1/4" drive screwdriver bits.

SwissTool. I have one of these as well. Just as tough as the Super Tool, but with typical Swiss finish. A little thinner and lighter than the ST300.   Mine does have a common flaw in that the pliers handles don't line up. One of my complaints with SAK drivers in general (including the SwissTool) is that they are a little too highly polished.  But, higher quality and better finished than most Leathermans I have owned. Good tool selection and design as well. I just can't open it with gloves on.

Spirit. If the SwissTool is too heavy, I think you'll like it. I don't own one yet, but hope too. It can be had with scissors, as can the SwissTool. The good thing about Swiss MTs is that both the Spirit and SwissTool have lots of variants.  The SuperTool has just three: standard, EOD, and the new "M" intended for firearms enthusiasts and the military.

Just do what I do, if you find

Thank you. I don't have an issue with weight. Or bulk, for that matter. It has a place in my rucksack, not on my belt.
But those bits, i find too soft. And expensive for what they offer. The adapter, (1/4") worked and is working, although i use also another one.
With the spirit, i have 3 issues. Pliers became stiff after forcing them, scissors the same, the grip is lame if you want to pull something. But it is a beautiful tool. Gentleman tool

[Don Pablo]

Heavy. Well, multitool heavy duty 

Surge sounds like the way (speaking as someone who has never held one!), if weight and bulk don't deter you.
I think the Surge is the most heavy duty tool.

[Edi]

Pliers i think, are. Not necessarily the rest.

[Vjeko Posavac]

If you like heavy tools, Surge is the answer!
Big, heavy, tough, and with a lot of tools.
I carry mine at work in belt sheath for about 8 years and there is no cons 
 

[pfrsantos]

Cons:

You can't get enough of any of those MTs...

 

[cody6268]

Cons:

You can't get enough of any of those MTs...

 

And basically, that's what I've done.  You can't really have just one. I have different MTs for different jobs; ranging from small keychain tools for small, around the house and travel jobs, all the way up to large, severe-duty MTs for farm, outdoors, and work. But, the PST, Wave, and Rebar are what I mostly use.  I have every tool that's on that list except the Charge and Spirit. The Charge, I'm really drooling over the Cabela's G-10. The Spirit I like because it's like the SwissTool, but lighter and smaller.

[Aloha]

Surge - The biggest CON for most would be size and weight.  Thing is tho, its a full size MT, so thats not a CON in my eyes.  A CON from is the can opener.  There is no need for a can opener in this tool IMO.  For some a CON is handle splay.  The width of the handles when pliers are fully opened.  Thats going to be an issue IMO on the larger tools. 
To me this tools represents what a MT can be.  The blade exchanger is great.  This one implement takes a wood saw to a variety of saws and materials that can be cut.  You can also within reason add length to your saw.  The bit holder is another great implement.  Yes it takes the flat bits but in my use they are very good.  In a flat and small package you have access to over 40 options.  If you add the bit extender then you get reach and the ability to use 1/4 in bits.  One handed opening is also a great feature on this tool.  The scissors are very good as well. 

Charge - The first CON I can think of is price.  The next CON is going to be the can opener.  I just dont think we need them on our MTs.  Thats about if for me and CONs.  The great things are the main blade steel choice.  S30V to me is wonderful for someone who will carry this tool with no dedicated knife.  The diamond file is also a great feature.  This and the Surge both have them and IMO they are a smart addition.  Size is of this tool is also great.  It has the option of a pocket clip which gives you choices how to carry.  The mini bit holder for some is a CON but I've used it and its a performer.  The scissors is small but very good as well.  The non + model has the cap crimper plier head and for many its a CON.  It was for me early on but I no longer feel that way.   

Wave - For some the standard Wave lacks the replaceable cutters which is a CON.  The Wave + has them so go that direction if you need them.  My Wave came with very sharp edges and had to be sanded.  That for some is a big CON.  With about 10 mins work I rate the CON as minimal.  Not having one hand opening scissors for some is a CON.  The scissors within the Wave are good tho small.  I'd saw the can opener is a CON. 

St300 - For me the CON are the inside tools.  I have to compare this tool to the Surge in that regard.  The next CON is the lack of diamond file.  The abundance of flat drivers for me are a CON.  I'd also say for some reason this tools seems soft in that the flat drivers tend to deform when pushed so thats a CON.  Weight may be a CON for some but again this a full size MT.
 
Swisstool - To me the only CON is its a bit blocky.  I really am hard pressed to find fault with this tool.  The density at which Vic packs tools into the frame is great.  The variety is wonderful.  One CON can be when working in a dirty/dusty environment the tools can become hard to open.  Weight and size can be a CON for some but its a full size tool. 

St spirit - The one CON that stands out to me is scissors.  They are unlike Victorinox scissors most SAK users are accustomed to.  I have not had the best time with them.  I am hard pressed to find another CON.  I have had some issue like the Swisstool in that when the tool gets dirty the tools can be hard to open. 

My personal assessment is as follows. 

I've used the Surge, Charge TTi, and Spirit on a daily, weekly basis now for years.  IF, I had to choose,  these three would fulfill all my MT needs/wants.  I carry my Charge TTi everyday on my work tool belt.  I carry my Spirit on my pants belt everyday for work.  I carry my Surge everyday within my vehicle or on my belt when I need a larger tool. 

I do keep a Swisstool in my house tool box and in garage.  I also keep one in my hike kit.  I think the CONs in my situation are small.  Once you decide what you need then you can determine how the CONs work to help decide which tool is a good fit for you.

Please note the Charge in the pic is a Ti and the Wave is modified.  I just wanted to post a group shot.     

[SteveC]

Good post Aloha 

[Aloha]

  It's always a compromise when comparing against dedicated tools so I never make that comparison.  I do however rate my needs first then find the tool that works within those needs.  Over time I've come to realize the Surge, Charge TTi, and Spirit are the best of the best for everyday in my use. 

The hard part is being a MT enthusiast, so I need my Swisstool, and my ST300, oh and my Charge Ti, and my modified Wave, you know just in case.   

Oh yeah, and I forgot my Skeletool CX.   .

It has become harder to not have an assortment of MTs. 

Trying to find what works without actually using the tools is hard, at least in my case.  Having now used many of the MTs on the market, I know what works for me. 

I cannot pick one.  I cannot imagine anyone of you have just one screw driver ( flat or phillps )?  One hammer?  One dedicated pliers? 

[Edi]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Life is tough indeed ))

[Edi]

One thing i noticed in victorinox vs leatherman metal saw is the teeth. Much more agressive in vic, but when i use it, i can't actually see a big difference.
Can opener in everything is almost obsolete. Cans are made different nowadays.
Flat screwdrivers. I can't recall when i needed that in a new thing. Very, very old screws yes. But newer ones, nope. So, to have more than one is weird. It's like all the guys that are thinking the tools haven't spent time working on stuff.
Every piece of furniture i buy comes with dedicated screws and bits for it. So i don't have to use a mt.
I need a custom one 

[Aloha]

There are many examples as you may have already seen on MTO of members who have customized their MTs. 

What I really like is the bit holder on my MT for exactly what you say about screws.  While a phillips here were I am is a regular sight I do come across others.  Having the bit card makes having the right driver available an awesome thing.  I have seldom felt I wouldn't have the right option available.  Can opener is space filler but its IMO a waste of space.   

[Edi]

I have adapted (not really, just found one) a bit holder which i can use with the flat screwdrivers. Bought also from lm, although really expensive for what they gave in plus. And i really thing an universal 1/4" adapter is way better. Stronger, in that sense.

[Aloha]

I too have taken a 1/4 bit holder and made it to fit my LM bit holder  .  If you haven't looked thru the pages and pages of mods I highly suggest you do.  With a few parts and some time you can come up with a tool specific to what you need.  We have some amazing modders with even more amazing ideas. 

[magentus]

Thing is, there's no real need for a multitool - but if you decide to get one - any and every one out there is a compromise - even if you mod it it's still not going to be perfect. The fun for a lot of us is carrying one and using it with a bit of imagination to overcome its natural limitations.

[Sea Monster]

Surge - It's too big and heavy
Charge - It's too expensive
Wave - it's not as nice as a charge and not as heavy duty as a surge.
St300 - Not as convenient as a wave.
Swisstool - Have not been updated in a decade, doesn't feel like a "tool" you want to use, everything is 2H opening, many tools feel off centre or off balance in use.
St spirit - No idea, never used one, apparently they are great, but who knows if all the fanboys are telling the truth?


If you use a knife a lot, don't carry a dedicated blade, and are in a country or region that allows it - I'd go one of the top three, depending on your personal tastes and account balance.

If the above does not apply, then go one of the bottom three - the difference between ST300 and Swisstool is probably a matter of taste, and if you like more compact tools, then the spirit....I guess.....


There isn't a "right" answer, there's just "good enough for what you need"

[magentus]

Having used a few of the better known Mt's, in my opinion the Spirit is 'all that'.
The only negative I can find with it is lack of one handed opening and to me that's no where near a deal breaker.
All outside opening tools, no 'filler' tools, beautifully engineered, comfortable to use and really tough.

Every other Mt I've had, I've wanted to mod in some way. Except the Spirit.

[Edi]

Thanks again. I'll drop the charge ideas 

[Syncop8r]

A lot of this is subjective. I don't find the Surge to be too big - to me it is the perfect size for my hand. I find the Wave and Charge to be too small.

Aloha, perhaps having a can opener is only a con if there is something else you would rather have in it's place.

[ElevenBlade]

A lot of this is subjective. I don't find the Surge to be too big - to me it is the perfect size for my hand. I find the Wave and Charge to be too small.

Aloha, perhaps having a can opener is only a con if there is something else you would rather have in it's place.

I share the same sentiment of a particular tool being a con, so I get it. For me that's the file, and it seems like every tool has one.

While I like to have a can opener on a MT myself, I can see how a food prep tool on a work MT is off-putting.

[Aloha]

I guess for me the can opener is a CON only because I'd likely have a SAK on me.  Truthfully the can opener can be used outside its intended purpose.  The Wenger can opener is a great box opener so sharpening the MT can opener in that manner would be great.  I'd like to see an awl in place of the can opener or a VIC style can opener. 

[Edi]

Having a SAK in my pocket, i try not to double the tools. Can opener and, and... but that being said i find the wire stripper on the big lm (ST300, Surge) not really functional. On the smaller, Wingman, it works like a charm. The St300 has no real cons for me, except that wire stripper. Doesn't have many parts to break. The flat screwdrivers are holding well. The only thing that is not like new, it developed a little play overall (everywhere) and it doesn't stay completely tight anymore. But i can open the pliers OH, butterfly/balisong style. I can do that with the spirit too and it has no play, but i wrote about the stiffnes cons.
Therefore i won't buy a Charge and wait for improvements in the others. What i don't like in the Victorinox pliers are the cutters. Very small.