Interesting Old Wenger Soldier: Dating and Chit Chat

[Ritornello]

So I bought this Wenger soldier, it's my first non model 1961 soldier, and the reasons I chose this one were two fold. First, the seller lived in the US, so shipping was at least reasonable, and secondly, it is a bit unique, which has made dating it a little more involved. On the back of the knife, rather than a date stamp, it has a second branding stamp; "Wengerinox" with the handle of the crossbow facing left as opposed to facing right per the later, 1953 tang stamp. Because the blade is clip point, it's definitely a model 1908, so I can fairly safely rule out this knife being made after 1951. The front stamp reads "Wenger Delemont Swiss Made" and according to - https://leaf-vics.com/usefull-materials/wenger-tang-stamps-and-scale-crosses - this stamp came into use around 1945. So I now have a range to play with, sometime between 1945 and 1950 (possibly early 1951?). I personally think this knife can be dated between 1945-1949 as in 1950 the front stamp got significantly larger and more bold as opposed to prior years. I would love to hear someone more knowledgeable than myself let me know if my assessment is correct or about the dating.

I'm unsure why the knife doesn't possess a date stamp. My first guess was that it was intended for civilian issue but the scales do possess a (faint) WK stamp so I had to let go of that hypothesis. The only other reason I can think of was that the blade only was made for civilian use and was part of surplus stock so it got thrown into a soldier's knife. Not sure if I wanna commit to it being a mere mistake. Anybody have any other ideas?

Rit

[Ritornello]

More pictures.

[elsinox]

As I see it, its not a soldier knife. Should be smaller than 100 mm. Its a civilian smaller version. Victorinox called them "small soldier knives" or "cadet knives".

[Ritornello]

As I see it, its not a soldier knife. Should be smaller than 100 mm. Its a civilian smaller version. Victorinox called them "small soldier knives" or "cadet knives".

Yeah my first thought was that it wasn't a soldier's knife and was a civilian knife but that didn't square away with what looks like a WK stamp, which you can see in the pictures. Unless they also stamped civilian knives for some reason I don't think it can be a civilian model. I'll do some measuring when I get home today but from what I recall the knife is larger than my 93mms by a fairly significant margin so I'd wager it's 100mm. I'll take some measurements of the knife and let you know.

[Ritornello]

As I see it, its not a soldier knife. Should be smaller than 100 mm. Its a civilian smaller version. Victorinox called them "small soldier knives" or "cadet knives".

Okay so I took some measurements and the knife is 100mm so it's not any shorter than a standard soldier's knife.

[Ritornello]

As I see it, its not a soldier knife. Should be smaller than 100 mm. Its a civilian smaller version. Victorinox called them "small soldier knives" or "cadet knives".

So, I was watching a hobie vid, the one on the model 1901 and he said something that may be a clue to what exactly is up with this knife. Apparently, whenever soldiers would break or lose their knives when not on duty they needed to replace the knife themselves. What I'm thinking may be the case is that a soldier may have bought this Wenger on the civilian market and brought it back into service with him where it would be inspected and stamped by a Swiss armorer. Not sure if this theory will hold obviously as I've still never seen a civilian issue knife like this but it seems plausible and would explain the lack of the date stamp and what remains of a WK stamp.

[Echotech]

Hi Ritornello I've got one very similar, also with WK marks (and in my case a triangle mark too), as per

https://www.couteaux-du-soldat-suisse.ch/J01/index.php/en/autres-couteaux/couteaux-civils

they can still be civilian versions, which is what I assume mine to be....I've found them to be rarer than actual soldiers so bought mine deliberately for the collection

"Many civil variants, replicas of "1908 Models" were manufactured between 1903 and 1960. Some of these knives had steel blades (civilian Model 200 S), others in stainless steel (civilian Model 200 R), some of these blades were stamped with the letter "P" and a vintage mark, whilst others did not have any distinctive marking other than the manufacturer's mark. Finally some of these knives had the control stamp "WK" (Waffenkontrolle) on handle but others did not...."

They're talking about the Vic version here, so I'm not sure about the Wenger, mine has full brass liners which none of my other 1908's have, can't tell from your pics if your does too

ET

[Ritornello]

Hi Ritornello I've got one very similar, also with WK marks (and in my case a triangle mark too), as per

https://www.couteaux-du-soldat-suisse.ch/J01/index.php/en/autres-couteaux/couteaux-civils

they can still be civilian versions, which is what I assume mine to be....I've found them to be rarer than actual soldiers so bought mine deliberately for the collection

"Many civil variants, replicas of "1908 Models" were manufactured between 1903 and 1960. Some of these knives had steel blades (civilian Model 200 S), others in stainless steel (civilian Model 200 R), some of these blades were stamped with the letter "P" and a vintage mark, whilst others did not have any distinctive marking other than the manufacturer's mark. Finally some of these knives had the control stamp "WK" (Waffenkontrolle) on handle but others did not...."

They're talking about the Vic version here, so I'm not sure about the Wenger, mine has full brass liners which none of my other 1908's have, can't tell from your pics if your does too

ET

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Thank you so much! Great to see someone else's example, and an even more excellent one at that. Never seen full bras liners before, but man do they look fantastic. Mine just has the brass spacer at the bottom. I wonder why they stamped civilian knives. Perhaps they figured the QC was as thorough as it can get for the military. Question is, what would the military get from doing QC on non-military issue knives? Could it have something to do with the Swiss's obligatory military service? I'm unsure.

[Echotech]

I think the brass liners indicate mine is a civilian model but the brass spacer on yours could still mean it’s a soldier possibly with a blade replacement, although they often got the WK marks “crossed” as per pics below of the 43. Reckon you’re right about the dates

[Echotech]

Here’s another civilian issue with both WK mark and P tang stamp (but no date) FYI, again just a brass spacer but not liners. They’re pretty well exactly the same as any mod 1908 (variant 3 I think) just not army issued

[Ritornello]

Here’s another civilian issue with both WK mark and P tang stamp (but no date) FYI, again just a brass spacer but not liners. They’re pretty well exactly the same as any mod 1908 (variant 3 I think) just not army issued

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Very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing and for confirming about the dates. Brass liners seem like a luxury sort of thing so it'd make sense as a civilian issue where someone will shell out there own hard earned money for a snazzier piece. I'm rounding out my model 1961 collection, only two models left and I think I'll be able to get one of them soon so I've been gravitating towards the older knives. And having got this one and liking it so much, I'm worried I'm gonna get a little too gung ho lol. I'm working on acquiring a model Wenger 1951 and a Vic/elsener mod 1908, so that's gonna require a couple sales of some of my other knives unfortunately but it'll be worth it in the end.

[Echotech]

My pleasure Rit, I find old soldiers the most satisfying knives in my collection. Congratulations on the mod 61’s, probably the best of them all, make sure to share some pics on this thread

One Man Army - Show your Soldiers
 https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=11325&share_tid=49775&url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum%2Emultitool%2Eorg%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D49775&share_type=t&link_source=app

mate ET

[Ritornello]

My pleasure Rit, I find old soldiers the most satisfying knives in my collection. Congratulations on the mod 61’s, probably the best of them all, make sure to share some pics on this thread

One Man Army - Show your Soldiers
 https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=11325&share_tid=49775&url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum%2Emultitool%2Eorg%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D49775&share_type=t&link_source=app

mate ET

If I manage to snag this latest one I'll post all the model 1961s I currently own on that thread. If you don't mind me asking, where can I find out a bit more about the particulars regarding the variants of the model 1908?

P.S. I'm never more excited to get anything in the mail than when I get a model 1961 pattern I've never owned before so I absolutely concur. Can't wait to dig into the even older models.

[Echotech]

Absolutely

The best resource for 1908’s and 1951’s is

https://www.couteaux-du-soldat-suisse.ch/J01/index.php/en/les-couteaux-du-soldat/les-modeles-1908

And of course SAKWIKI

https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Soldier+1890

For mod 61’s, you can’t beat Myron’s blog, which you’re probably aware of, but just in case

http://www.roverhaven.com/the-rover-haven-blog/2018/12/16/collecting-the-model-1961-swiss-army-knife-part-2-fun-and-affordable-collectibility-meets-swiss-made

To find the other parts go to the blog link at the top, parts 2 and 5 I’ve found the most useful from a collectors perspective

[Echotech]

And while I’m at it, be great to have you and your Wengers join us for the Delemont challenge in October

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,86179.msg2188225.html#msg2188225

[Ritornello]

And while I’m at it, be great to have you and your Wengers join us for the Delemont challenge in October

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,86179.msg2188225.html#msg2188225

Thanks a million for all the excellent resources. I was aware of Myron's blog, as you suspected. I've interacted with him in the past and he shared it with me, he has a collection that puts mine to shame, a lot of real eye candy there. As for the Delemont challenge I'd be happy to participate, might grab a couple Wengers come October so I can be a bit more rounded out. 

[Echotech]

Nice one Rit
Please add your name to the list, be good to bump it up and get a few more challengers