Why can't Victorinox manage to make a sensible multi-tool nowadays?

[fyrstormer]

(takes a deep breath and seals the helmet on his flame suit)

It's not that complicated. 12 tools total:

Four cutting tools: A plain-edged knife (preferably with a locking blade), a large metal file/metal saw, a large wood saw (not something I personally use often, but it's nice to have), and a pair of scissors.

Four driver tools: A narrow phillips-head screwdriver, a narrow flathead screwdriver, a bit driver for driving larger screws and specialty screws, and a spare bit holder.

Three opener tools: A bottle opener, a can opener, and a prybar to save the knife blade from getting damaged.

And lastly, a slide-out pen for those times when you need to write something down and nobody else has a pen.

Victorinox can never seem to hit on this combination of tools; either they leave-out one or more of them in an otherwise-sensible configuration, or they include all of them plus a bunch of other tools that are either highly specialized or useless: A mostly-useless pair of tiny pliers, an entirely-useless tiny nut wrench, a plastic magnifying glass that will get broken the first time the tool is dropped, a package-carrying hook that will never get used because nobody ties strings around packages anymore, a compass that doesn't read accurately because it's 2 inches away from a big block of steel tools, a fish-gutting knife, a fish-scaling knife, a fishing-hook remover, a seatbelt cutter, a marlin-spike for knitting marine ropes together, a freaking corkscrew like I'm living in 18th-century Europe, etc. etc. etc.

It's maddening. Yes, everyone's needs are slightly different, but most people will fairly frequently need the tools I mentioned at the beginning, as you can easily see when you look at used Swiss Army knives on eBay and look at which tools tend to be worn-out. And yes, some of the tools (such as the fishing and emergency-response tools) are genuinely useful, but are best packaged into specialty tools designed for specific markets. For the average buyer, Victorinox could cut 3/4 of their model lineup (and save a lot of money in the process) if they would just make a Swiss Army Knife with all of the tools I listed at the beginning and nothing else to waste space and increase weight.

It's like Victorinox is intentionally avoiding making a tool like this, and I can't figure out why. Most of their customers are not collectors and they're not going to be losing money overall by simplifying their product lineup. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they increased sales by making a multitool that doesn't have anything the average person would look at and think "I'm never gonna use that".

The closest they come to meeting my requirements are the CyberTool L, the Ranger, and the Locksmith, but they all have problems. The Locksmith doesn't have scissors and is a little too large for all-day in-pocket carry, the CyberTool L has tiny useless pliers that take up two slots of space, and the CyberTool L and Ranger both have corkscrews instead of phillips-head screwdrivers, and four different sizes of flathead screwdrivers, and a package hook. You might say the CyberTool L doesn't need a phillips-head screwdriver anyway because it has the bit driver and spare bit holder, but then why does it have four flathead screwdrivers? It's like Victorinox specs their builds using a random-number generator.

I have their SwissTool X -- it's a great butterfly-style multitool that has just the tools I actually use (all of which are accessible without unfolding the pliers, no less!), but it's also a big heavy mofo and not suitable for carrying in my pocket when I'm walking around an office building. It shouldn't be impossible to get a Swiss Army knife with pocket-friendly rounded corners, coworker-friendly "no I'm not a doomsday prepper or wannabe-ninja" plastic scales on the sides, and a complete set of useful everyday tools without extra garbage to weigh down my pocket.

I realize complaints like this have probably been posted many times over the years, but dammit, I needed to vent. I feel a little better now.

[Jothra]

If you ask a roomful of people what a "sensible" multitool should look like, you will get a roomful of different answers.

[Sakpan74Gr]

Maybe a Cyber tool L without the mini pliers, with the large serrated blade of the Weekender would be great.
I love the mini pliers, so I would add those to the mix.
I would prefer a separate pry tool though. Prying with an articulated tool doesn't seem like a good idea to me, because it cannot withstand a lot of force.

How about a smaller spirit X? Let's say like the leatherman Juice?

Στάλθηκε από το Redmi Note 8 Pro μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[Sos24]

If you ask a roomful of people what a "sensible" multitool should look like, you will get a roomful of different answers.

Exactly.

I think what the OP lists as sensible, many SAK carriers would think is overkill, especially in an edc office environment.

Many of the tools the OP lists as useless are actually liked, used and considered “sensible” by many people.

[SirVicaLot]

Maybe a Cyber tool L without the mini pliers, with the large serrated blade of the Weekender would be great.
I love the mini pliers, so I would add those to the mix.
I would prefer a separate pry tool though. Prying with an articulated tool doesn't seem like a good idea to me, because it cannot withstand a lot of force.

How about a smaller spirit X? Let's say like the leatherman Juice?

Στάλθηκε από το Redmi Note 8 Pro μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

A small Spirit X would be awesome! You are hearing this, Vic? 

[Storm]

Custom maker can give you what you require my friend

[SirVicaLot]

(takes a deep breath and seals the helmet on his flame suit)

It's not that complicated. 12 tools total:

Four cutting tools: A plain-edged knife (preferably with a locking blade), a large metal file/metal saw, a large wood saw (not something I personally use often, but it's nice to have), and a pair of scissors.

Four driver tools: A narrow phillips-head screwdriver, a narrow flathead screwdriver, a bit driver for driving larger screws and specialty screws, and a spare bit holder.

Three opener tools: A bottle opener, a can opener, and a prybar to save the knife blade from getting damaged.

And lastly, a slide-out pen for those times when you need to write something down and nobody else has a pen.

Victorinox can never seem to hit on this combination of tools; either they leave-out one or more of them in an otherwise-sensible configuration, or they include all of them plus a bunch of other tools that are either highly specialized or useless: A mostly-useless pair of tiny pliers, an entirely-useless tiny nut wrench, a plastic magnifying glass that will get broken the first time the tool is dropped, a package-carrying hook that will never get used because nobody ties strings around packages anymore, a compass that doesn't read accurately because it's 2 inches away from a big block of steel tools, a fish-gutting knife, a fish-scaling knife, a fishing-hook remover, a seatbelt cutter, a marlin-spike for knitting marine ropes together, a freaking corkscrew like I'm living in 18th-century Europe, etc. etc. etc.

It's maddening. Yes, everyone's needs are slightly different, but most people will fairly frequently need the tools I mentioned at the beginning, as you can easily see when you look at used Swiss Army knives on eBay and look at which tools tend to be worn-out. And yes, some of the tools (such as the fishing and emergency-response tools) are genuinely useful, but are best packaged into specialty tools designed for specific markets. For the average buyer, Victorinox could cut 3/4 of their model lineup (and save a lot of money in the process) if they would just make a Swiss Army Knife with all of the tools I listed at the beginning and nothing else to waste space and increase weight.

It's like Victorinox is intentionally avoiding making a tool like this, and I can't figure out why. Most of their customers are not collectors and they're not going to be losing money overall by simplifying their product lineup. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they increased sales by making a multitool that doesn't have anything the average person would look at and think "I'm never gonna use that".

The closest they come to meeting my requirements are the CyberTool L, the Ranger, and the Locksmith, but they all have problems. The Locksmith doesn't have scissors and is a little too large for all-day in-pocket carry, the CyberTool L has tiny useless pliers that take up two slots of space, and the CyberTool L and Ranger both have corkscrews instead of phillips-head screwdrivers, and four different sizes of flathead screwdrivers, and a package hook. You might say the CyberTool L doesn't need a phillips-head screwdriver anyway because it has the bit driver and spare bit holder, but then why does it have four flathead screwdrivers? It's like Victorinox specs their builds using a random-number generator.

I have their SwissTool X -- it's a great butterfly-style multitool that has just the tools I actually use (all of which are accessible without unfolding the pliers, no less!), but it's also a big heavy mofo and not suitable for carrying in my pocket when I'm walking around an office building. It shouldn't be impossible to get a Swiss Army knife with pocket-friendly rounded corners, coworker-friendly "no I'm not a doomsday prepper or wannabe-ninja" plastic scales on the sides, and a complete set of useful everyday tools without extra garbage to weigh down my pocket.

I realize complaints like this have probably been posted many times over the years, but dammit, I needed to vent. I feel a little better now.

I agree with a lot of your points, which is why I either carry a Spirit XC or Gerber MP400/600. Maybe that would be an option for you? The MP400 is easy to mod with everything you wished for.

[Jothra]

[...]
I would prefer a separate pry tool though. Prying with an articulated tool doesn't seem like a good idea to me, because it cannot withstand a lot of force.
[...]

I carry a dedicated prybar these days, too (Gerber Mullet), but the Victorinox flat driver is a beast. In the Before-Time of the Long-Long-Ago, I worked commercial construction, and torture-tested a Huntsman for a month. The flat driver was an indestructible champion superhero.

[Storm]

Indeed, and it was truly magnificent 

For anyone who wants to see a SAK beaten like Mike Tyson hit his opponents as referenced above
 https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,46255.0.html
It's worth the read.

[fyrstormer]

Exactly.

I think what the OP lists as sensible, many SAK carriers would think is overkill, especially in an edc office environment.

Many of the tools the OP lists as useless are actually liked, used and considered “sensible” by many people.

Multi-tools in general are overkill for most people, who don't especially value having the ability to do things for themselves. But among the minority of people who carry multi-tools, the majority of them will not need gutting hooks or corkscrews. Everyone who uses tools needs screwdrivers, knives, and files from time to time, though.

Personally, the wood saw, bottle opener, can opener, and prybar would be rarely-used tools for me, but they wouldn't be never-used tools for me. The tools I listed as "useless" have never been used by me, or are so badly designed they can't serve their intended purposes, like the tiny nut wrench and the compass. I know there are people who do use those tools (at least the ones that are physically capable of working properly), and I'm not saying they shouldn't use them -- I'm saying I shouldn't have to buy a bunch of stuff I will never use or doesn't work properly, just to get the tools I do use.

Again, my tool list is based not solely on my personal preferences but also on years of looking at other people's used multi-tools -- not enthusiasts' multi-tools, not multi-tools owned by people who get joy from finding new ways to use each little component -- but multi-tools owned by normal people who just use their Swiss Army knives for their intended purposes. The tools I listed as "sensible" are the ones that are routinely worn-out or broken in used knife listings.

Of course, Victorinox could end this argument once and for all if they would allow people to order custom-specced tools, which would not be difficult since they're just stacked plates of metal in the first place, but we'll probably never see that, even for a premium price. They only deal in high-volume orders.

[Adam5]

(takes a deep breath and seals the helmet on his flame suit)

It's not that complicated. 12 tools total:

Four cutting tools: A plain-edged knife (preferably with a locking blade), a large metal file/metal saw, a large wood saw (not something I personally use often, but it's nice to have), and a pair of scissors.

Four driver tools: A narrow phillips-head screwdriver, a narrow flathead screwdriver, a bit driver for driving larger screws and specialty screws, and a spare bit holder.

Three opener tools: A bottle opener, a can opener, and a prybar to save the knife blade from getting damaged.

And lastly, a slide-out pen for those times when you need to write something down and nobody else has a pen.

Victorinox can never seem to hit on this combination of tools; either they leave-out one or more of them in an otherwise-sensible configuration, or they include all of them plus a bunch of other tools that are either highly specialized or useless: A mostly-useless pair of tiny pliers, an entirely-useless tiny nut wrench, a plastic magnifying glass that will get broken the first time the tool is dropped, a package-carrying hook that will never get used because nobody ties strings around packages anymore, a compass that doesn't read accurately because it's 2 inches away from a big block of steel tools, a fish-gutting knife, a fish-scaling knife, a fishing-hook remover, a seatbelt cutter, a marlin-spike for knitting marine ropes together, a freaking corkscrew like I'm living in 18th-century Europe, etc. etc. etc.

It's maddening. Yes, everyone's needs are slightly different, but most people will fairly frequently need the tools I mentioned at the beginning, as you can easily see when you look at used Swiss Army knives on eBay and look at which tools tend to be worn-out. And yes, some of the tools (such as the fishing and emergency-response tools) are genuinely useful, but are best packaged into specialty tools designed for specific markets. For the average buyer, Victorinox could cut 3/4 of their model lineup (and save a lot of money in the process) if they would just make a Swiss Army Knife with all of the tools I listed at the beginning and nothing else to waste space and increase weight.

It's like Victorinox is intentionally avoiding making a tool like this, and I can't figure out why. Most of their customers are not collectors and they're not going to be losing money overall by simplifying their product lineup. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they increased sales by making a multitool that doesn't have anything the average person would look at and think "I'm never gonna use that".

The closest they come to meeting my requirements are the CyberTool L, the Ranger, and the Locksmith, but they all have problems. The Locksmith doesn't have scissors and is a little too large for all-day in-pocket carry, the CyberTool L has tiny useless pliers that take up two slots of space, and the CyberTool L and Ranger both have corkscrews instead of phillips-head screwdrivers, and four different sizes of flathead screwdrivers, and a package hook. You might say the CyberTool L doesn't need a phillips-head screwdriver anyway because it has the bit driver and spare bit holder, but then why does it have four flathead screwdrivers? It's like Victorinox specs their builds using a random-number generator.

I have their SwissTool X -- it's a great butterfly-style multitool that has just the tools I actually use (all of which are accessible without unfolding the pliers, no less!), but it's also a big heavy mofo and not suitable for carrying in my pocket when I'm walking around an office building. It shouldn't be impossible to get a Swiss Army knife with pocket-friendly rounded corners, coworker-friendly "no I'm not a doomsday prepper or wannabe-ninja" plastic scales on the sides, and a complete set of useful everyday tools without extra garbage to weigh down my pocket.

I realize complaints like this have probably been posted many times over the years, but dammit, I needed to vent. I feel a little better now.

Seriously, I would buy the SAK you just described. It would cover most of my needs.

However, it could be that, though the tools you listed are the most used tools across the entire spectrum of SAK knives, this combination of tools is less desired as a whole than other combinations.

[fyrstormer]

I agree with a lot of your points, which is why I either carry a Spirit XC or Gerber MP400/600. Maybe that would be an option for you? The MP400 is easy to mod with everything you wished for.

I owned a Gerber Legend 800 back in college. In fact, I still have it. It has been sitting in a drawer for a long time though, because newer multi-tools have come along that are less bulky and more feature-rich. In the same span of time, Gerber's quality has declined, and every Gerber tool I've bought in the past 15 years has been a gimmicky disappointment. The MP600, in particular, still uses an ancient design that makes the tools inaccessible without deploying the pliers first -- a design that even Gerber had improved upon by 2003. I'm done with that brand.

[fyrstormer]

(Image removed from quote.)

Seriously, I would buy the SAK you just described. It would cover most of my needs.

However, it could be that, though the tools you listed are the most used tools across the entire spectrum of SAK knives, this combination of tools is less desired as a whole than other combinations.

Maybe you're right; maybe the combination is less desirable than other combinations. I have a hard time imagining how that could be, though; I'm just suggesting a full complement of a few basic tool categories, rather than a partial complement of each. Surely everyone here must have experienced the frustration of encountering a phillips-head screw when their Swiss Army knife has only had flathead screwdrivers, or encountering a sharp piece of metal that could use some smoothing when all they had was a tiny nail-file.

[Jothra]

If you ask a roomful of people what a "sensible" multitool should look like, you will get a roomful of different answers.

I'll also add that the day any company releases this exact tool, they will be immediately flooded with complaints that they got it wrong. No exceptions.

[ToolJoe]

I've found the Spirit to be the best all around SAK product and I've owned a bunch. YMMV. 

[SirVicaLot]

I owned a Gerber Legend 800 back in college. In fact, I still have it. It has been sitting in a drawer for a long time though, because newer multi-tools have come along that are less bulky and more feature-rich. In the same span of time, Gerber's quality has declined, and every Gerber tool I've bought in the past 15 years has been a gimmicky disappointment. The MP600, in particular, still uses an ancient design that makes the tools inaccessible without deploying the pliers first -- a design that even Gerber had improved upon by 2003. I'm done with that brand.

You are the first person ever to call the MP600 gimmicky, but each their own. I love my MPs 

[Danielh]

A lot of Victorinox's choices don't make sense. Why stop making 84mm scissors? Why discontinue the craftsman and continue making the "handyman" that doesn't have a phillips in any of its six layers? Why not offer plus scales on more models or just make them the default scales? There are many decisions people think are stupid or ideas that could easily be implemented but vic can't get everything right. Unless they release some sort of build your own model tool like is often suggested, there will always be people who are unhappy with the selection. For years I've been wanting them to bring back a model like the gran prix with scissors and a file that has a phillips. What you're describing is sort of a master craftsman with the cybertool bit driver included. Maybe you could mod one or get someone to do it for you.

[Rich_SD]

The can opener is the one that gets me.  I know some people use them, but there can't be so many to justify putting a can opener on virtually every medium and large pocket knife.

[SurgeUk]

I'd love them to make a Surge sized MXBS (and release it in the UK as well  )

I would also happily lose the saw from my FX and have it replaced with an in-line Phillips 

However, I have no skill what-so-ever and can't afford a custom build (even if it were possible  )

[fyrstormer]

You are the first person ever to call the MP600 gimmicky, but each their own. I love my MPs 

I'm not calling the MP600 gimmicky, I'm calling the MP600 outdated. Needing to deploy the pliers before accessing any of the other tools was always a bad idea, but it took them until the mid-2000s to figure that out. That's why they designed the Legend 800 in the first place. (of course, then they cheapened it with inferior materials, as I discovered when I bought a replacement 800 for my original one that had some worn-out tools.) It's Gerber's newer tools that are gimmicky.

[fyrstormer]

The can opener is the one that gets me.  I know some people use them, but there can't be so many to justify putting a can opener on virtually every medium and large pocket knife.

The can opener seems pretty out-there, but consider how often people in industrialized nations need to open cans while cooking. For me it's almost every time I cook. So while I may always have a dedicated no-sharp-edges can opener handy, it's not inconceivable that it could break, or I could encounter a can that gives me trouble. In fact, that happened a couple months ago; my dedicated no-sharp-edges can opener just wouldn't latch onto a can that was damaged by being dropped on the floor, and my Swiss Army can opener came to the rescue.

[fyrstormer]

A lot of Victorinox's choices don't make sense. Why stop making 84mm scissors? Why discontinue the craftsman and continue making the "handyman" that doesn't have a phillips in any of its six layers? Why not offer plus scales on more models or just make them the default scales? There are many decisions people think are stupid or ideas that could easily be implemented but vic can't get everything right. Unless they release some sort of build your own model tool like is often suggested, there will always be people who are unhappy with the selection. For years I've been wanting them to bring back a model like the gran prix with scissors and a file that has a phillips. What you're describing is sort of a master craftsman with the cybertool bit driver included. Maybe you could mod one or get someone to do it for you.

Yeah, I just found out about the Craftsman model. I cannot believe Victorinox discontinued that model and introduced the Handyman which has the exact same tool set except a corkscrew instead of a phillips-head screwdriver! What in god's name were they thinking? That just supports my hypothesis that their builds are specced using a random-number generator. (also, I'm having trouble shaking the suspicion that Victorinox does stuff like this specifically to make people have to buy multiple SAKs from them just to get all the tools they need.)

As for custom builds, I may have to resort to buying a SwissChamp XLT, drilling out the rivets, removing the tools I don't need, and reinstalling the rivets after cutting them shorter. But the SwissChamp XLT is hella expensive just to throw away a third of the tools it comes with, and with custom builds there is always the chance something could go horribly wrong.

[fyrstormer]

I've found the Spirit to be the best all around SAK product and I've owned a bunch. YMMV. 

I've never had a SwissTool Spirit, but I do have a SwissTool as mentioned in my first post, and it's very nice but also very heavy. Plus the more industrial look means it's more likely to make...sensitive...coworkers look twice when they see it.

Looking around on this forum, I finally found a direct size comparison between the SwissTool and SwissTool Spirit, and I didn't realize the Spirit is a little smaller. That would make it more pocketable...but the way the curved handles don't fold-up flush when they're closed has always irritated me. That's why I went for the older "spirit-less" SwissTool in the first place.

[Sawl Goodman]

(takes a deep breath and seals the helmet on his flame suit)

It's not that complicated. 12 tools total:

Four cutting tools: A plain-edged knife (preferably with a locking blade), a large metal file/metal saw, a large wood saw (not something I personally use often, but it's nice to have), and a pair of scissors.

Four driver tools: A narrow phillips-head screwdriver, a narrow flathead screwdriver, a bit driver for driving larger screws and specialty screws, and a spare bit holder.

Three opener tools: A bottle opener, a can opener, and a prybar to save the knife blade from getting damaged.

And lastly, a slide-out pen for those times when you need to write something down and nobody else has a pen.
[…]
The closest they come to meeting my requirements are the CyberTool L, the Ranger, and the Locksmith, but they all have problems.

Cyber tool L with plus scales. Separate pliers, like a little Knipex.

If you feel you can bypass specific driver bits: Ranger or Master Craftsman with plus scales, Rambler, and separate pliers. [Edit: Forget plus scales and choose the Manager instead of the Rambler for an off the shelf combination.]

Some of your criticisms of standard tools like the can opener and corkscrew are naive. Seemingly simple tools have multiple uses beyond their names. For instance, while I never use the CS for pulling corks, I like it for its additional capabilities and keep it close to hand.

Videos by Nikguyver and Felix Immler on YT show how to make the most of SAK tools.

[Altis]

There are definitely some missing/discontinued builds that seem obvious to me, namely the Craftsman, the Modeler (Explorer + metal saw/file), and Woodsman (Explorer + wood saw). I'd love to see an Alox with the metal saw as well.

As for the T-Phillips, I've heard enough accounts of the tool splitting under use due to being on the central pin, and the clearance it requires makes it often unable to be used. I still think it's good to have on some models but just like the wood saw, the use cases aren't as vast as it first appears. The can opener is inline and works in many #2 and #3 Phillips in my experience.

A standard 1/4" bit driver would be nice, but to hold the bits on the tool would just be silly given how much space that would require. Far better to have a plastic bit holder and either a dedicated wrench (which is also stronger) or a standard driver bit as that can be used with the bottle opener.



Something like that + a Work Champ or Ranger (since the Phillips bits would suffice). I'd rather carry two smaller tools that are nicer to use and carry than a single one that's too large and awkward to use anyways.

[Rich_SD]

The can opener seems pretty out-there, but consider how often people in industrialized nations need to open cans while cooking. For me it's almost every time I cook. So while I may always have a dedicated no-sharp-edges can opener handy, it's not inconceivable that it could break, or I could encounter a can that gives me trouble. In fact, that happened a couple months ago; my dedicated no-sharp-edges can opener just wouldn't latch onto a can that was damaged by being dropped on the floor, and my Swiss Army can opener came to the rescue.

Outside of camping, I have never needed an emergency can opener in my entire life.  Even if I did, I wouldn't use one on a tool that I use in the garage, around the house, in the yard... yuk! 🤢

Can openers a great on camping tools or tools dedicated to food use, but on your standard multitool, they're just ridiculous.

[Syncop8r]

Welcome to    fyrstormer. 
Quite the entrance!

Custom maker can give you what you require my friend

Maybe you could mod one or get someone to do it for you.

Needing to deploy the pliers before accessing any of the other tools was always a bad idea

This is why I can't get on with my MP400.

How about a smaller spirit X? Let's say like the leatherman Juice?

I already consider the Spirit small enough. I would need to handle one again to be sure but the small size is one thing that puts me off getting one.

Looking around on this forum, I finally found a direct size comparison between the SwissTool and SwissTool Spirit, and I didn't realize the Spirit is a little smaller. That would make it more pocketable...but the way the curved handles don't fold-up flush when they're closed has always irritated me.

But the payoff is better plier handle geometry that gives a better grip and helps them stay in your hands.

I'd love them to make a Surge sized MXBS

                                           

[WoodsDuck]

I'm of the opinion that a corkscrew is more useful than the slippery backside phillips driver 

[Top-Gear-24]

... a compass that doesn't read accurately because it's 2 inches away from a big block of steel tools...

First of all, you can pop the compass out of the ruler and use it as a regular button compass, far away from "the big block of steel tools", you can't do this on the oldest versions of the Wenger compass. But even with the compass still in the ruler, they will do the job (at least in my experience).

I own five SAKs with the compass in them, and they all work absolutely fine.

Out of the box, two of them were acting goofy.  The first one being on my back-up Victorinox S54 with the 6th generation compass, which was pointing all over the place.  And the second one on an older NIB Wenger Pathfinder with the 3rd generation compass, on which the compass seemed to be stuck.

On the S54, I popped the compass out of the ruler, held it under a bit of streaming water, and placed it on a window sill (where there are no electronics or magnets nearby, checked this with one of my Suunto compasses) and left it there overnight.  And the next morning it was spot on.

By the way, the streaming water part is to clear the compass of a possible static charge, which can happen to any compass (also had this happen on my Recta DS50-G once).

On the older Wenger Pathfinder with the 3rd generation compass, you can't pop the compass out of the ruler, so I held it under water, gently tapped on it with my finger for a while, and I noticed it started to come loose, and after a while it worked just fine.

Would I use them as my dedicated compass on an expedition in the Amazon jungle?  No, but then again, no multitool could ever beat a dedicated tool, multitools are there for when you don't have your dedicated tool on you.

I've used the Vic/Wenger compass in the field along with a topomap, and it got the job done. Would any of my dedicated Suunto, Recta or Silva compasses worked easier? Absolutely.  Would they've worked more precise? Probably, but I didn't have them on me at the time, so...

That's all I had to say here,  all the other stuff just comes down to personal preference in my opinion. 

A multitool is always a compromise, and I happen to find the compromise that works for me in what Victorinox and Leatherman are offering (I also like the Gerber MP600, I find it to be a rock solid tool  but a little less easy to work with).

If you're not happy, you'll just have to keep on searching, or mod one yourself, that's the only way to really get what you want.

And even then...

Show content

Good luck with the search  .

[kamakiri]

111mm Work Champ might be worth a look for you. I’m relatively new to them this year and have some mods planned for a couple that I already disassembled after I spend more time with it.

The bit driver is a good suggestion/addition in your proposed toolset. I could see a 111mm version that has a larger bit holder.

Agreed on the pens. I try to add them to anything I build that isn’t a restoration.

I don’t think a separate/new pry bar is needed. I generally like and frequently use the caplifter as a pry bar.

A long narrow flathead would be welcome as a backside tool on 111mm or a revised 91mm version sans hump and narrower than the old ‘73-‘85 backside SD or longer and stronger that the old technician driver that replaced the small blade on the ‘original’ handyman.

I like the Vic pliers. But I do wish they would either go back to the thinner 2.5mm version or do a new style like the knipex pliers wrench or other high leverage parallel plier design. Sometimes smaller is better. I don’t care much for multi-tool pliers. Most use the highest leverage parts for cutters. No thanks. Waste of space right there. Most are just not the right size needle nose substitutes. Get me a good compact design and I’ll use it.