Combo tool vs opener layer

[Sos24]

I like the combo tool and have not had any issues with it.  Although, I most commonly have/use it on a Yeoman where I have an inline Phillips and refrain from using it for heavy prying.

[comis]

Can't believe I missed this thread for so long, I voted 'something else' because the decision does depend on the layers/thickness of the knife.

If the SAK is 4 or less layers, and has everything I wanted, I think the opener layers is perfectly fine. 

But if a SAK is 5 or more layers, I think I might prefer switching the opener layers to a combo tool if I could mod it.

[pfrsantos]

I prefer the opener layer because it gives you more options. You can even modify one of the openers for specific tasks.

[AimlessWanderer]

I own and carry both types.

[r1nzler]

both are good...and both can be used on common philips heads

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[Don Pablo]

I prefer the opener layer because it gives you more options. You can even modify one of the openers for specific tasks.

Some people on here (kottskrapa?) grind off the 'can' part of the can opener tool to make a long skinny driver that can still be used as a Phillips. I think that's awesome!

[smiller43147]

Well.. I think i prefer the openers but... BUT...
While I've heard many stories about the combo tool weakness, combo tools bended and so on, today i had to deal with a phillips screw and it was fairly tight, but still i opened it with the combo tool of my compact and it was good: no bend, no damage, just a well done job. That leaded me to ask myself why so many people hates combo tool? maybe they abuse it? It could be.. I had no problem today but I was also careful not to damage it and I worked slowly.. What do you think?

It's important to understand and respect ANY tool's limitations.  Is the full opener layer superior to the combo tool, yes.  Will the combo tool do 90% of what the two dedicated tools do, while eliminating a layer, yes.

[pfrsantos]

Some people on here (kottskrapa?) grind off the 'can' part of the can opener tool to make a long skinny driver that can still be used as a Phillips. I think that's awesome!

Yup, and I think it still works as a can opener. There's awlso the bottle opener tip rounding and sharpening, to use in carving spoons and the like.

 

[MacGyver]

Well.. I think i prefer the openers but... BUT...
While I've heard many stories about the combo tool weakness, combo tools bended and so on, today i had to deal with a phillips screw and it was fairly tight, but still i opened it with the combo tool of my compact and it was good: no bend, no damage, just a well done job. That leaded me to ask myself why so many people hates combo tool? maybe they abuse it? It could be.. I had no problem today but I was also careful not to damage it and I worked slowly.. What do you think?

As with everything else, it's mainly a matter of personal preference and needs.

Here's my take on the matter, for the last months...
I also use to bash the combo tool for being weak compared to the opener layer, but when i got a Compact my opinion changed about it's usefulness (for me). Not because i now think it's as strong and tough as the opener layer, it's not, but because i asked myself what do i really need on an urban edc on a daily basis.
The actual functions of opening cans or  popping off caps are near irrelevant to me, so that leves the screwdriver usage and prybar usage. I don't thing i'd ever use the combo tool (or the opener layer for that matter) for both of those functions with near enough force to damage  it, unless it was an actual emergency and sacrifices had to me made. 

I'm pretty carefully in respecting all my tools limitations. And i'll never use a SAK for those functions when ever i have the proper tool near by. And if i needed an SD on a regular daily basis for more serious work, i'd carry a real one. A SAK get's the job done in a pinch, but it's nowhere near a substitute for real tools when those are needed regularly.
That being said, i've been carrying a Compact on an exclusive basis for months now, and it does everything i need it to do and then some. I also carry a Quattro SD and a couple of actual Phillips bits (modified to de used/turned with any flat piece of metal) on my coin pouch. For me it's more than enough for what i need, on the go.
And with two layers with scissors, it can't be beat...

[Mike 56]

I like SAKs, in general, I like the combo tool a little more than the opening layer. I prefer a lighter and smaller tool in my pocket. They both open cans well the can opener is a little easier than the combo tool. To be honest I don't open too many cans with a SAK. Flathead screws about the same. Philips screws the small screwdriver on the can opener can handle Philips screws light duty. The way the combo tool is shaped it does a better job on Philips screws at least for me it does. For opening bottles, I think the combo tool is the winner. I really don't think you can go wrong with either way.

[r1nzler]

I like SAKs, in general, I like the combo tool a little more than the opening layer. I prefer a lighter and smaller tool in my pocket. They both open cans well the can opener is a little easier than the combo tool. To be honest I don't open too many cans with a SAK. Flathead screws about the same. Philips screws the small screwdriver on the can opener can handle Philips screws light duty. The way the combo tool is shaped it does a better job on Philips screws at least for me it does. For opening bottles, I think the combo tool is the winner. I really don't think you can go wrong with either way.

Yea the combo tool is better for tightening loose philips.

But installing phillips from.scratch, i prefer the normal can opener.



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[Aloha]

Hmm.  For me I feel its familiarity.  I am familiar with the 2 tools vs combo tool.  I am used to using the 2 separate tools effectively and efficiently.  Neither has let me down that I can immediately recall.     


I do have to mention on my 84mm Golfer I am not a fan and heres why, see the difference?  The one no the Golfer doesn't have the sharp corner so for me its a terrible can opener and not as efficient a driver AS compared to the Bantam ( pictured ).  I do like the combo tool with the sharp corner and my Bantam made me realize this.   

[Mike 56]

Hmm.  For me I feel its familiarity.  I am familiar with the 2 tools vs combo tool.  I am used to using the 2 separate tools effectively and efficiently.  Neither has let me down that I can immediately recall.     


I do have to mention on my 84mm Golfer I am not a fan and heres why, see the difference?  The one no the Golfer doesn't have the sharp corner so for me its a terrible can opener and not as efficient a driver AS compared to the Bantam ( pictured ).  I do like the combo tool with the sharp corner and my Bantam made me realize this.   

I have a lot of one layer 84mm SAKs I did not know there were two types of combo tools. I have a 91mm Golfer it does not have a combo tool it has a divot tool (AKA barbeque tool) instead of a combo tool.

[gene stoner]

I love how how I have room on my Hunter for the gut hook but cringe every time I have to open a can. Don't get me wrong the combo tool works but it's the worst multi tool opener I've ever used.
You really need to be careful with thinner cheaper cans because the Combo tool can and has for me left pices of metal in the can.

[Sawl Goodman]

I only carry 84mm+ Victorinoxes with the opener layer.

With Wenger, because the can opener can't turn Phillips screws, I actually prefer the combo tool. It locks for slotted screws and works OK with Phillips screws that aren't too tight, if more awkwardly than the Vic one since it has to be used at right angles to the screw.

I also prefer the Wenger combo tool as a can opener over the Vic one. I think it looks better and perhaps a little stronger, too.

[cody6268]

I only carry 84mm+ Victorinoxes with the opener layer.

With Wenger, because the can opener can't turn Phillips screws, I actually prefer the combo tool. It locks for slotted screws and works OK with Phillips screws that aren't too tight, if more awkwardly than the Vic one since it has to be used at right angles to the screw.

I also prefer the Wenger combo tool as a can opener over the Vic one. I think it looks better and perhaps a little stronger, too.

No Phillips at all on most corkscrew equipped Wenger is why I kinda like the LL Bean ones and the flat Phillips that replaces the nailfile.

[ElevenBlade]

I'm partial to the combo tool for EDC

It does fine with screws in a pinch - just for a quick tightening, since I rarely need to assemble or fix anything these days.

I find it's much better than the dedicated cap lifter for that purpose (I use it quite a bit)

I've never needed to open a can on the days I carry the combo tool....  If I happen to have a can with me, I will have an opening layer with me too. 

[ElevenBlade]

I'm partial to the combo tool for EDC

It does fine with screws in a pinch - just for a quick tightening, since I rarely need to assemble or fix anything these days.

I find it's much better than the dedicated cap lifter for that purpose (I use it quite a bit)

I've never needed to open a can on the days I carry the combo tool....  If I happen to have a can with me, I will have an opening layer with me too. 

Im changing my story! 

While I still think the combo tool makes a better bottle opener.... I've done a series of three 30-day challenges.  soon after carrying the Compact for a weekend out of town.   The opener layer is just one layer that adds more than its weight in functinality.  The combo tool still has the cool factor of being a meta-multitasker.  But when it comes to punching above your weight class, the opener layer gets it done.   

[Steelej1976]

I voted opener layer because I have never used the combo tool.  The can opener is so handy it can be used on Phillips screws and some Robertsons and Torx screws.  Also the bottle opener works great as a mini pry bar and scraper. 

[jph_777]

I prefer the combo tool on a day-to-day, general use basis, as I get more bang for the buck in a smaller carry.  If I know I am going into a situation where I will need to use the can opener a lot, I may carry a SAK with an opener layer.  My usual carry is a Yeoman mod, so I have a great philips SD, and the combo tool is a good flat head/slotted SD.  In short, it depends on what I'm going to do each day.  If I had to choose one or the other, it would be the combo tool.

[ElevenBlade]

I prefer the combo tool on a day-to-day, general use basis, as I get more bang for the buck in a smaller carry.  If I know I am going into a situation where I will need to use the can opener a lot, I may carry a SAK with an opener layer.  My usual carry is a Yeoman mod, so I have a great philips SD, and the combo tool is a good flat head/slotted SD.  In short, it depends on what I'm going to do each day.  If I had to choose one or the other, it would be the combo tool.

Although, having the Philips along with the Combo tool does significantly increase the utility of the model overall, doesn't it? So then the question is - would you rather have a Compact or a Climber?

[jph_777]

ElevenBlade... Yep, a real philips always works better than either the combo tool, or the can opener tool.  That's why I love the Yeoman setup so much.  Regarding Compact vs. Climber for pocket carry, I have always taken the Compact, as it is only two layers compared to the Climber's three layers, and I have never found myself (yet) wishing that I had the opener layer over the combo tool in any given real life situation.  Having said that, I think the climber is a great model, and I have 3 of them.  When I want to carry three layers, it will be the Yeoman.  If I am carrying in a bag, and size doesn't matter, my usual choice is an Explorer or perhaps a Champion (or maybe multple SAKs!)   

[ElevenBlade]

ElevenBlade... Yep, a real philips always works better than either the combo tool, or the can opener tool.  That's why I love the Yeoman setup so much.  Regarding Compact vs. Climber for pocket carry, I have always taken the Compact, as it is only two layers compared to the Climber's three layers, and I have never found myself (yet) wishing that I had the opener layer over the combo tool in any given real life situation.  Having said that, I think the climber is a great model, and I have 3 of them.  When I want to carry three layers, it will be the Yeoman.  If I am carrying in a bag, and size doesn't matter, my usual choice is an Explorer or perhaps a Champion (or maybe multple SAKs!)   

   I carry a Compact instead of a Climber too.  But it seems that when I have my "just in case" carry.... which is 90% of the time.... its the opener layer.  Because even though I may not need it, it's just in case. 

[Helvetica Bold]

I’ve been experimenting with the combo tool either in standard knives or my own combination of tools and because I don’t ever open cans I prefer the layer reduction myself - that’s what I voted. I have a Compact at the moment but I expect it won’t be long before I take it apart and transplant the combo into something else. I have a red Alox bantam too though and that is probably one of favourite formats full stop for edc at least ....mind you my absolute favourite combo too is the one on my Manager keychain carry! Incorporate that in an 84 or 91mm and you have a whole world of other options!! 

[SirVicaLot]

I think I finally made up my mind on this topic:

I prefer the opener layer on the 91/93mm series, but prefer the combo tool on the 84mm series. The reason for this is that the combo tool is a little sturdier than the can opener on the 84's when being used as a screwdriver. I twisted the tip on my cadet the other day, but have not managed to twist the combo tool yet 

[MacGyver]

Still a firm believe in the opener layer, in any size, and still the two more used tools on a sak, for me.
However i can get by with the combo tool if i'm carrying a Compact or similar 

BTW, never forget that loosing the opening layer also means you are loosing the awl and the small blade, not just the individual bottle and can opener 

[Singh]

wooo....necro thread!

My issue with the combo tool is that  it does none of its jobs well. The combo tool, since it it's also a can opener, will punch through a bottle cap if you're not careful.  Also it's  sorta pants as a screwdriver.

But... that's sacrifice you have to make if you want to drop a layer. For example: Climber vs Compact. 

The combo tool: If I never think I'll use it, then I'll have it on a SAK. It's perfect as a "better than nothing" option.  That makes the combo tool perfect as a minimalist EDC option.




 

 

[powernoodle]

Since I never, ever use either the bottle opener or can opener, I'm for the combo tool all the way.

[kamakiri]

Now I know the mod I must make.

Normally, I somewhat dislike the repetitive ’debates’. But sometimes they get you to revisit old ideas and paths not yet taken.

[Singh]

Normally, I somewhat dislike the repetitive ’debates’. But sometimes they get you to revisit old ideas and paths not yet taken.

good point. I was just thinking more about the combo tool today and I had this thought:

• for 84mm; combo tool
• for 91mm; opener layer

The rationale: the bottle and the can openers on the 84mm are a little too small to be as effective as their bigger 91mm counterparts.  So if I'm going small with 84mm, I might as well also go thin and drop the opener layer.