Anyone making a "modernized" PST II?

[BPRoberts]

What's the closest/best thing companies are making these days to a PST II? The toolset is pretty close to perfect for basic EDC, but I don't want to venture back into the dark days of tool clumping and all inside opening.

Ideally I'd like:

1. ~4 inch form factor. Could go up for the right tool.
2. Outside opening. Potentially flexible on some of the less used tools being innies.
3. Tools: Knife, scissors, a couple drivers, file, openers.

I find that once you get past 3 or 4 tools on a handle, the ergonomics of picking them out tend to become suspect. I don't mind digging through a ST300 when I'm doing a bigger job, but for basic day to day bottle opening, tag snipping, drawer tightening, I just want to grab and go. Also helps keep the weight/size down for pocket carry, which is best for me at work.

LM has the Wingman (iffy drivers and file), the P2 (same), Curl (probably the closest)  and the Wave (starting to get a little chunky, but not undoable)

Gerber has the MP400 (no file, and I don't love how the pliers poke out), and several larger tools (CD+, some of the MP600s) that're a bit big.

The Swisstool Spirit has what I want, but goes up to 5 per handle and is on the biggish size?

SOG only puts scissors on their minitools (Powerpint/liter) and their biggest (Power Access)

Has anyone tried the Nextool Sailor Pro? That looks pretty close, and I've heard some good things about Nextool lately

Is there anything from a less known company I'm missing? If not, any general recommendations for a relatively minimalist plier tool with good access/ergoes, and decent scissors and file?

[Poncho65]

Not sure from other companies I was gonna say that the Curl was the closest but you already said that

I would also be interested to see what is out there that is close

To bad the Pulse is discontinued it should have been updated with lock tabs and kept but they went the route of the Zytel series (which was great but dropped some things like a diamond file) They also had inside opening tools but no tool clumping 

[BPRoberts]

Yeah, the Pulse is a nice looking (both aesthetically and practically) tool. It kind of surprises me that LM makes the Heritage PST, Bond, and (two!) Rebars but can't muster a PST II/Pulse/Blast-Fuse follow up.  If you're going to keep the "retro" line going, you might as well fill that "middle" slot. How hard is it to jam the Rebar scissors into a Bond? I could drop the lanyard ring and/or the small driver without losing any sleep. It wouldn't get me outside open, but it checks all the rest of the boxes.

The other question (especially with the Curl) is how are the Leatherman scissors and bit driver? All I ever hear about the scissors is that the they're not as good as Vic's, but that doesn't say whether they're good or not. Likewise, I hear a lot about the LM bits breaking, but I feel like that's an "everyone whines when it breaks, no one says anything when it works" kind of thing. I guess if I'm thinking of modding a ReBond, I could also consider putting a 3D Phillips in place of the bit driver on the Curl. I'm not a fan of carrying separate bits for my basic EDC, and it's just going to sit with the #2 Phillips bit in it 90% of the time. I wish more companies would make tools with onboard storage ala the Cybertool and Centerdrive.

[Poncho65]

I totally am on board with something like a Bond with scissors 

I never complain about the LM flat bits and love the bit driver I use the bits all the time and even bought a screwdriver handle that incorporated them into it with the ratchet driver also the bit that comes from the factory in the bit driver is a #2 Phillips and a flat double ended driver

The scissors are usable for sure but sometimes slip past the spring with some stuff I cut They are there for lots of things and I like them fine but the SAK scissors are hard to beat

[Grand_Banana]

I saw a post on Reddit where a guy put Wave scissors on a heritage PST. I’m might be misremembering but I think it was a drop in as they share the same post diameter.  I may try it as an option.

[BPRoberts]

Let me know how it goes if you do!

[Poncho65]

Definitely the same size pivot if we are talking mods, then the sky is the limit Plenty of ways to mod a tool to your exact specs That is why I have my Charge knife, it ticks most all of your boxes off the list except for having pliers Oh and openers (it doesn't have those either) then add any plier based tool you want and viola, an awesome carry you are happy with

[Noa Isumi]

What would be interesting would be something the size of a Rebar w/ outside tools and pass through pliers like some of the keychain multitools.
Unfortunately don't think I've ever seen a full size in that layout.
LM Free is outside layout but is $$$

[magentus]

Would heartily recommend the Gerber MP400, which,  with a little tinkering, would fulfil your requirements.  They are really easy to mod and my current work EDC for around the past 4 years has been a bladeless '400 with wood saw and file replacing the blade and can opener. The sticky out plier head got on my nerves too so I just filed  it down so it's flush with the body.
It's built like a tank and has been used every day in my maintenance job at my local college
If you're interested I can pop some pics up. 

[BPRoberts]

I'd love to see some pics, I was thinking the same thing about cutting down the head last night. I have an MP400, and I do like the feel of it. It's not quite outside open, but it is a lot easier than traditional butterfly.

[SteveC]

Would heartily recommend the Gerber MP400, which,  with a little tinkering, would fulfil your requirements.  They are really easy to mod and my current work EDC for around the past 4 years has been a bladeless '400 with wood saw and file replacing the blade and can opener. The sticky out plier head got on my nerves too so I just filed  it down so it's flush with the body.
It's built like a tank and has been used every day in my maintenance job at my local college
If you're interested I can pop some pics up.

Good to see you mags !   

[magentus]

Good to see you too Steve 

[BPRoberts]

Nice. That's about how I thought the pliers would look. Little stubby, but usable, pair of blunt nose. How hard was that to do?

[magentus]

Nice. That's about how I thought the pliers would look. Little stubby, but usable, pair of blunt nose. How hard was that to do?

Depends on what tools you have at hand.  I cut the pliers jaws with a cheap dremel then finished off with files, done in 45 minutes tops. Filed the small driver to make an awl in the same session. The pliers are very usable I find, and the whole tool is extremely tough.  My esteemed forum colleague The Peacant called the MP400 'beautifully industrial' and I agree.

[Don Pablo]

Good to see you too Steve 

Nice wear patina you have going on there!

[BPRoberts]

Files and dremel I have. How about the internal swaps? Thanks for all the help.

[magentus]

Files and dremel I have. How about the internal swaps? Thanks for all the help.

Saw was from a Gerber Suspension and the file from an MP600, both drop in with no fettling required.
Always glad to help 

[Antti Lammi]

I saw a post on Reddit where a guy put Wave scissors on a heritage PST. I’m might be misremembering but I think it was a drop in as they share the same post diameter.  I may try it as an option.

I have done scissor mod to PST2, orginal scissors was broken so i replaced it with wave scissors and it was horrible to use. Scissors drops easily in place but scissors doesnt lock same place as other tools, first it didnt matter but few days in use it was horrible and i replaced it with mini bitdriver from wave ( that doesnt lock right place but easier to handle it while using )



Rather recommend to use PST2/OG Wave scissors on PST rather than 2nd gen scissors


Only Tools Matters

[Grand_Banana]

I have done scissor mod to PST2, orginal scissors was broken so i replaced it with wave scissors and it was horrible to use. Scissors drops easily in place but scissors doesnt lock same place as other tools, first it didnt matter but few days in use it was horrible and i replaced it with mini bitdriver from wave ( that doesnt lock right place but easier to handle it while using )

(Image removed from quote.)

Rather recommend to use PST2/OG Wave scissors on PST rather than 2nd gen scissors


Only Tools Matters

Cheers, Antti that’s good to know.

[BPRoberts]

Thought about it a little more, and it looks like my options (in order roughly from easiest mod/cheapest to hardest mod/most expensive)

1. Nextool Sailor Pro

+ Cheap and no mods needed
+ Right size
+ Baby marlin spike wasn't on my wishlist, but sounds handy.
+ Saw and serrated blade instead of combo edge
-  No can opener
- Middling brand

I can't really see not dropping $30 to at least try this at some point. Worst case, it can go live in one of my camp bags or something as a backup.

2. Leatherman Wingman
+ Right toolset OOTB
+ Good size
- Only 2 tools outside accessible
- Tiny file
- Had a Bolster, and wasn't impressed by the general quality, same line.

I think if I'm going to put out the cash for a Wingman, I'd be better served going all the way up to a...

3. Leatherman Curl
+ All tools by default (can deal with dit driver over Phillips. Might even come in handy someday)
+ Good quality:price ratio+
+ Awl!
+ Relatively easy to swap in a Phillips down the line if I want.
- Only 2 outside tools, one of which is the file
- Don't love the LM can/bottle opener
- Starting to get a little on the chunky/heavy end

This is probably the best overall cost/effort:quality option. But what's the fun in that when I could make a...

4. Leatherman "Wingkick" Mod
+ Upgrade to separate PE and SE knives.
+ Easy mod
+ Wind up with 2+ usable multitools in the end
- Only 2 tools outside accessible
- Tiny file
- Had a Bolster, and wasn't impressed by the general quality, same line.
- Not really sure what I'd do with the "Sideman" leftovers.
- Has that stupid internal lanyard ring. Could I take that out when doing other mods, or will it screw up the spacing?

This feels like a case of worrying about what I can do more than what I should do. Buying MSRP $140 worth of tools just to mod together a questionable version of what I want and some spares. If I'm going to mod, it probably makes more sense to make a...

5. Leatherman Rebond/Re-knife-bar Mod
+ Really maintains that old school PSTII style
+ Better chassis than the Rev-line
+ Don't need 2 fully functioning tools, so probably cheaper.
- All inside opening
- Still stuck with the LM combo opener

Certainly scored high on pizzazz, but half the point of this is to get more accessible tools. if I'm going to do a mod, I might be better served with a...

6. Gerber MP400/600 Stubby Mod
+ Prefer the MP platform/slider pliers to most LM designs
+ Again, don't need 2 full tools. There's a lot of half busted/cheap MPs on ebay
- Not outside opening
- Probably the most complex mod, since it requires cutting, not just swapping tools between handles.

The MP definitely sounds the most fun. Even if I don't wind up doing it now, I think it'll be a worthwhile project someday.

[Antti Lammi]

IMHO forget Wingman since quality is prolly worst than Nextool and if only missing tool on Nextool is can opener that is minor convenience.
But i really recommend to try Spirit ( okey its most pricey of those tools but really worth it)
and its not that big at all, its slimmer tha wingman but bit longer.
Tho if you dont buy mx version there isnt any OHO tool and scissors are good but not great as on SAK.


Only Tools Matters

[BPRoberts]

Yeah, the more that I look at it, the more sense it makes to spend the extra $20 on the Curl. I think I'll try the Nextool next time it goes on a a decent sale, and then think about the MP mod once I'm a little less busy depending on how it goes.

The Curl and the Spirit are both solid looking tools, but the price points on both mean they're more likely to wait.

[Antti Lammi]

Spirit is most expensive tool on those. I recommend to try find secondhand tools rather than new ones. 75% times seconhand tools is good as new but much cheaper. And truly you dont get much advantage buying new tool.


Only Tools Matters

[HarleyXJGuy]

It has been a while since reading your post that started this thread but while reading the last few post here I was thinking to myself.

The Spirit is exactly what he needs to cover all these bases and more!

1. 4” form factor all day long plus it’s slim and not to heavy. Use the pocket clip and it rides great in your pocket or slip it in a large or medium Skinth with a flashlight and pen for an excellent edc combo.

2. The benchmark for outside opening tools.

3. Every tool on your list in there and ready to do work. Only caveat is a lot of folks me included wish regular SAK scissors were included instead of the ones you get. That said they are better than any LM scissors except maybe the Micra.

Now it’s not the cheapest MT out there but the quality and durability are top notch. The Spirit in this picture is at least seven years old. Carried it every days for about three years so it’s no shelf queen.



While it true there are five tools per handle digging the one you want out of the pile is super easy. The knife/saw length tools are one on each side and the longest of the three remaining (large flat/Phillips) are in the middle position. Each tool has its own nail nick and comes out by itself.

My advice to anyone looking for a MT of this type is to just windmill slam one into your cart and thanks me later.

[ToolJoe]

Spirit gets my vote. Otherwise, I think the Bond is the closest to a PST LM makes that isn't crazy expensive.

Actually if you can find one out there, a Leatherman Kick is pretty basic but doesn't have a file or scissors.

[BPRoberts]

Thinking about it, it's true that having more than 4 tools on an SAK never bothered me, since they're relatively easy to grab. Maybe more companies need to just embrace the nail nick.

Definitely agree with buying second hand. Especially for reliable companies with good warranties.

I think part of what turns me off from the Spirit is all the variants. It's one thing to buy 4 similar 20 or 30 dollar SAKs to figure out the best one. It's another with a tool that goes for 70 or 80 bucks used. Not as big of an issue with LM or Gerber, since a Curl is fairly different from a Supertool and an MP400 from an MP600. Don't want to buy the wrong one, don't want to buy them all...

[Farmer X]

IMHO forget Wingman since quality is prolly worst than Nextool and if only missing tool on Nextool is can opener that is minor convenience.

+1. I'd be genuinely shocked if anyone who dislikes a Bolster would wind up liking a Wingman. My Wingman has seen next to zero use. I don't care for the spring-loaded pliers, the opening hole in the blade, or the file.

The Nextool Sailor Pro looks interesting, but I don't know about the "knot untie tool." I'd prefer something round for that purpose. If the lack of openers is overly bothersome, there are a couple of easy work-arounds: a used SAK or something along the lines of a Marble's GI Jack.

I own both a Wave and a Pulse, and they're both pretty good...though the scissors don't work well for me. Based on my experience up to this point, I'd recommend a Wave to BPRoberts. A Rebar would be a good alternative if inside opening and lack of scissors are not insurmountable obstacles.