Australian Knife Laws

[Valkie]

Well, the grubberment has just driven home the final nail in the coffin of knife carry in Australia.

And you may well say that a small pocket knife is OK, but not under the draconian Australian knife laws,
Any knife, or pointed implement will see you before a judge, even a Victornox Champ.
Its even illegal to have a knife in your car.

So Gentlemen and Ladies.
There you have it.
Australia is now a totally useless country full of moronic and scared little pulic servants who think that taking pocket knives off honest, law abiding people will protect them from criminals who couldn't care less about their stupid draconian laws.
I am 65 years old.
Carried a pocket knife or multitool since I was a cub scout.
Never even considered using a knife as a weapon (I can do far more damage with my walking cane).
But because of a collection of seat polishing, scared witless little turds, I can no longer have a very useful tool on my person, in my car and probably soon even in my house.
I can imagine eventually the useless grubberment will ban any sharp implements in the home as well.
All our food will have to be cut up for us before we buy it.
Tradesmen will have to register all their tools with some nice shiny new grubberment agency and require a license to use them.
I wish I was 30 years younger, Id be out of this hole.

Having custody of a knife in a public place or school will also carry a maximum fine of $4400 while wielding a knife will jump to $11,000.

“Under existing laws, the penalty for a first offence is punishable by a fine only these changes will mean that even first time offenders face the prospect of jail.”

Mr Hatzistergos said the laws would also increase the maximum fine for refusing a police knife search in a public place or school to $5500.

“We also brought in laws that ban outright combat-style weapons like flick knives, ballistic knives, sheath knives, push daggers, butterfly knives, and star knives.
“The maximum penalty for possession or use of any of these prohibited weapons is 14 years imprisonment.

[greenbear]

The new Australian laws seem not too dissimilar to those we have in the UK these days. Blades have to be less than three inches and non-locking. it is possible to carry something fixed "with good reason", so if going camping, shooting etc. But even carrying a sub three inch non-locking blade knife opens the possibility of prosecution if carrying "without good reason".

The UK knife laws have had no effect on the levels of knife crime which, sadly, have spiralled in recent years.  All the laws seem to have done is damage businesses that sell knives - for example a local camera shop used to have a cabinet of Victorinox knives and he does not keep it filled any more as nobody is buying.

The really sad part of UK knife crime is that most knife injuries are caused by kitchen knives or machetes, neither if which are subject to restrictions beyond the purchaser needing to be over 18 years old (although I gather there are to be restrictions on machetes brought in fairly soon).

One feels a bit like a potential criminal just by collecting folding knives these days.

[Echotech]

I read this in the paper last week and like you was dismayed, particularly having read that knife crime is at a 20 year low in NSW (where the law applies).

Interestingly the greens intend to oppose it, which probably doesn’t mean much but at least they see that it’s not in the public interest

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jun/21/nsw-doubles-penalties-for-knife-possession-but-critics-decry-kneejerk-reaction

We need to get sensible laws here, where an old geezer (60) like myself with a rambler on my keychain isn’t considered a crim. Although I started carrying small pen knives when I was a teenager and have never attacked anyone ever, so sensible laws for all age groups

Obviously knife crime is a tragedy but the nanny state, overbearing nonsense we have to put up with is ridiculous.

And sheath knives banned completely, wow, that’s even more insane

[ThisAlarm7]

Makes me sick to read that kind of stuff applying to my international friends....

[nakken]

Agreed, sorry to hear about this. I am very thankful that our laws are nothing like that. I assume that most people in here are used to carrying a knife or a multitool on a regular basis. I never leave home without one, that has to be a strange adjustment.

[Aloha]

Sorry to hear the news.   

[nate j]

Disappointing.  More politicians proving that they don’t know much about…well, anything really.

[comis]

Sorry to hear this disheartening news.  Why would they even consider sheath knives combative?  Looking at that list, I can't help but to wonder where they get the idea from, Ninja Turtle or Ramble?

[Huntsman]

Hey Valkie, Hey ET,

I read ET's link - Did they actually change the laws? Or did they just double the fines?
And are we talking NSW or Australia/federal?
The tiered governments make it confusing - I did a quick search online on this - Some websites even said you could carry a SAK in Oz and I think one even said Boy Scouts could carry a knife - not NSW, maybe it was QLD !!! ..... Confusing!
I Know for sure in NSW (where I live) you cannot.

I still carry my SAK and plan to do so on an ongoing basis. And I have a plan for this!

Sorry we're not meant to get political here and as a moderator I should know better - But I have to have a moan - Australia's fines are just ridiculous.
I've been slapped with a $400 fine for having my car wheels/bonnet about 0.5m over the white line at a traffic light and $320 for not wearing a bike helmet (I forgot it) - And if you fancy a little scramble on the Sydney Harbour Bridge - You'd better save up $22,000.
Crazy amounts - and the cynics would say 'revenue generating schemes'!! 

[pietervn]

I think huntsman is correct. As I understand it the fines have been doubled, the carry ways have not changed. There is proposed talks to revise the religious legal carry in schools.

I carry a Leatherman on my belt everyday I'm at work (Sydney Trains) I have never been questioned or stopped by the police who often parade stations. If one keep your head down and not set off the idiot meter one should be ok. I think younger people are being targeted at the moment. A bit of common sense (not very common at the moment) goes a long way.

Cheers, Pete

[Farmer X]

The tiered governments make it confusing...

It's the same way in the States. Never mind that I have to be very careful when navigating Interstate 75...too much time in the wrong lane can find me headed to Canada with no escape.

I think younger people are being targeted at the moment.

It would certainly seem that way, based on the article Echotech linked to. The comments from one smurf politician (to the effect that people should be discouraged from carrying knives) were particularly distressing.

This thread had me doing a little additional research. Australian knife law involves a lot of red tape. Apparently throwing knives are illegal at the federal level. And what is this bit about "sheath knives?"

[Valkie]

As I stated in the OP, I have carried a small pocket knife all my life (from about 9 years old to recently.
Its always been there and never even considered as a weapon.
I started with multitools at about 30, being an avid motorcyclist, it was an easy way to carry basic tools around.

If I want a weapon, all I need to do is use my walking cane (I carry it for personal protection as I'm getting older and criminals are getting meaner).
And with 20 plus years of martial arts experience, I probably wouldn't even need that.
But then again, the number of times I have felt threatened could be counted on one hand.

The sheath knife thing is directly aimed at the thuggs who hang out in some of our "less civilized" multicultural areas.
These areas are frequented by new arrivals who love pulling knives, machete and guns.
It has never been a problem until the last decade or so when the multicultural mix was changed from more civilized requirements to third world refugees.
Don't get me wrong, I both admire and know immigrants who have made Australia the great place to live it has been, without them it would not be as great a country.
But recent arrivals have demonstrated a violent bent unlike anything we have previously endured.
Simply looking at the newspapers every day, murder, drugs, crime, the names are all the same.

So, our grubberment have decided to go over the top and address the issue by making everyone a criminal should they carry a basic apple cutting tool.

I do carry a multitool to work and when volunteering for Marine Rescue.
I feel I can justify it at these venues, particularly Marine Rescue because a knife close at hand could save a life.
But for "every day carry" I just have to wing it and never carry at all, or be made to feel like a criminal for a crime I have never and will never commit.

I also have my collection of knives and weapons that were used in my Martial arts training.
I can just imagine the cops searching my home for some reason, they would have a fit.

Just as a final remark.
Its even illegal to carry a replica gun and wearing a bullet proof vest is a huge NO NO.

Its truely sad when a man cannot even carry a basic tool because "someone" thinks that tool will be used as a weapon.

[Farmer X]

Its truely sad when a man cannot even carry a basic tool because "someone" thinks that tool will be used as a weapon.

And I'm given to understand that self-defense is not a valid reason to carry a knife in Australia. Makes me glad I have the freedom to carry dang near whatever I want...

[ReamerPunch]

I've never been stopped by police to be searched or even questioned, and it would probably be bad, since I usually carry a Rebar, two SAKs, and a utility knife on my person. I don't think I could justify any of it, unless 30 day challenges count.
I just make sure to be casual and not raise any flags. I do avoid parks and shopping centres, especially if I have more stuff on me, like a fixed blade or a hatchet.
I also avoid carrying a folding knife. I don't think I can talk myself out of trouble with something like that. And I never carry knives or tools on my belt. I have in the past, but I feel it draws too much attention because it is unusual where I am.
I guess dedicated tools was another solution to not scare people. A dedicated bit driver or scissors are more acceptable that a multitool driver that also has blades attached to it. It is what it is. I'll keep carrying my secret edc tools and use them, minding my business.

Like Pete said, a little common sense goes a long way.

[Valkie]

And I'm given to understand that self-defense is not a valid reason to carry a knife in Australia. Makes me glad I have the freedom to carry dang near whatever I want...

And it's even illegal to fight back.
My old boss was attacked, silly two attackers.
He beat one insensible in two punches, the second, he broke his leg.
When the cops arrived,he was arrested and the muggers taken to hospital.

In court, even the video footage from the shop front showed he was attacked.
But he was charged with "using undue force to protect himself"

An old guy ( in his 80s) and his wife were attacked, in their own home, by a couple of criminals.
He shot and killed one.
He was arrested and charged with murder.
Only the public outcry stopped it from going through and he got off on a manslaughter charge.

In Australia, it's tge criminals 2ho are protected and the victims ignored.
I b3lieve it's because all of our politicians are criminals and they don't want to set a precedent.

[Aloha]

Its a shame any SAK could be seen as a weapon.  I am truly at a loss when it comes to such views.  We are as much enthusiast as we are users of these tools.  I cannot begin to think if such laws were enacted in my area what I'd feel tho I'm sure I'd be pretty upset.

Before joining MTO I was unaware of anyones restrictions when it came to sharps.  I only focused on the legality of what I carried in my city.  A decade later and now knowing a little more about what many of y'all have to contend with I feel for you.  I am frustrated for you.  I don't pack my pockets and think "oh well". 

Before we begin to stray into areas of conversations that are better suited elsewhere   lets please keep it as general as possible.  Trust me, I am dumbfounded when such laws are passed anywhere.  The laws and lawmakers are topics too highly charged that can lead to chat that is best elsewhere.   

Thank you to those who have posted thus far for be the amazing MTO members you are.  I just wanted to set a reminder for anyone who might want to post. 

 

   

[nate j]

And it's even illegal to fight back.
My old boss was attacked, silly two attackers.
He beat one insensible in two punches, the second, he broke his leg.
When the cops arrived,he was arrested and the muggers taken to hospital.

In court, even the video footage from the shop front showed he was attacked.
But he was charged with "using undue force to protect himself"

An old guy ( in his 80s) and his wife were attacked, in their own home, by a couple of criminals.
He shot and killed one.
He was arrested and charged with murder.
Only the public outcry stopped it from going through and he got off on a manslaughter charge.

In Australia, it's tge criminals 2ho are protected and the victims ignored.
I b3lieve it's because all of our politicians are criminals and they don't want to set a precedent.

Here in the US, this seems to be highly dependent upon locality/jurisdiction.  Some areas have strong laws designed to protect the right to self-defense.  Other areas are every bit as backwards as you describe, and anyone who dares stand up for themselves faces a costly legal battle, at best.

[nate j]

Its a shame any SAK could be seen as a weapon.  I am truly at a loss when it comes to such views.
 

On one hand, I agree.  Perhaps I simply lack the covert ninja black ops training to appreciate how lethal a Vic Spartan or Case Stockman can be, but I find non-locking folders in particular ill-suited for use as weapons, to the point that in most scenarios I would probably try to defend myself bare-handed before I would attempt to get a non-locking folder into action.  I think a big part of the problem is that the people who write these laws have precious little knowledge of knives, and even less understanding of the dynamics of contact distance violence.

On the other hand, I find it delightfully ironic that much of the legal progress that has been made against some of the most draconian knife laws in the US recently has occurred precisely because attorneys have argued that knives are “Arms” under the meaning of the 2nd Amendment.

[Valkie]

As a final note on this topic, Frome me anyway.

I am a law abiding person (for the most part)
never been arrested, never been charged with anything other than a speeding fine or two.
The only people I have hurt have either been in the ring with me or simply deserved it for starting it and not giving me an out.
I prefer to back off and apologize rather than fight, simply because I know how much damage I can do, and I have fought in the ring, so its not fear.

I would not consider ANY multitool as a possible weapon, other than as a but of weight in my hand (like a roll of coins)
And the shape of a multitool does not lend itself to that sort of eventuality as it not nice and round.
Additionally, the knives themselves are not designed for weaponry, yes its sharp and pointy, but as a weapon not real good.

I practiced knife and hand to hand fighting in my martial arts training.
The knives we used for fighting were karambits (not sure of the spelling, lets just say hook knives).
These are well designed to do maximum damage with the least effort, not a stabbing weapon as much as a slicing and dicing weapon designed to open up the attacker.
PS they were rubber training knives.
I was never any good with swords, Nunchucks or SAI, I was more a danger to myself.

I try to avoid trouble, and willingly back down rather than fight.
I'm too old to run away, but I can walk, but refuse to tire myself just in case I need my energy for other actions.
But and I say this with all sincerity.
There is no way on Gods earth would I even consider pulling out a flimsy and less than ergonomically designed multitool to fight someone (anyone).
If the situation required me to defend myself from someone in earnest, it would be my cane or, time permitting, grabbing one of my Kerambits from my display cabinet.
Which is highly unlikely.

This fixation that grubberments around the world have about pocketknives is truly disturbing.
Guns, I understand.
Machete and swords, likewise.
But a tool used in 99.9 out of 100 cases as nothing more than a tool, is asinine rubbish, perpetrated by a witless knumbskull seat polishing public servant with a fear of everything normal..
I would hazard that more people have been deliberately killed with a car, a screwdriver or even a hammer than have been killed with a pocketknife.

Are they going to ban cars? what about hammers?.
I will continue to carry my tools at work or when volunteering.
I will continue to carry my tools when bush walking, camping or boating.
But I will aquiesse to the draconian and pointless rules and mandates of the less than cerebrally gifted grubberment at other times.

Its sad for an old boy scout to finally hang up his knife.
But such is life in this day and age.

I guess the grubberment will continue to enforce knife rules just like they did to the 95 year old retiree in Australia recently.
They tazered her to death because she was carrying a butter knife and the cops decided that tazers were a better option than talking. (But she was holding a knife)
Perhaps tazers should be only given to competent people.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/world/australia/police-taser-95-year-old-woman.html

[ThisAlarm7]

This fixation that grubberments around the world have about pocketknives is truly disturbing.
Guns, I understand.
Machete and swords, likewise.
But a tool used in 99.9 out of 100 cases as nothing more than a tool, is asinine rubbish, perpetrated by a witless knumbskull seat polishing public servant with a fear of everything normal..
I would hazard that more people have been deliberately killed with a car, a screwdriver or even a hammer than have been killed with a pocketknife.

I mostly agree with your overall sentiment, but with this section you lose me. It's what ends up being the problem....you like pocket knives and multitools but nothing else so you're ok with applying the government rationale you decry to those things that you don't care about, such as guns and other "weapons". The vast majority of people with legal guns don't abuse them either. Punish and regulate behavior, not the objects themselves or harmless legal behavior with said objects.

[Poncho65]

This topic has been going very well, guys

Let's keep it steered in the right direction

[Tasky]

Its even illegal to carry a replica gun and wearing a bullet proof vest is a huge NO NO.

Realistic replica guns can still be used effectively to carry out an armed robbery, which is why the UK banned such things... but why on Earth is wearing a bullet-proof vest illegal??!!
Aside from making you look like a bell-end, it doesn't impact anyone in the slightest....

[Aloha]

We can go round and round trying to figure our such things.  We don't care to discuss such matters here tho.  Such topics can be and usually are divisive.   



     

[Farmer X]

Punish and regulate behavior, not the objects themselves or harmless legal behavior with said objects.

Well said!

[nate j]

why on Earth is wearing a bullet-proof vest illegal??!!

While I personally believe civilians should be free to purchase and wear body armor if desired, I think the argument in favor of these laws boils down to the fact that bad guys wearing body armor are harder for good guys to kill than bad guys not wearing body armor.

[Valkie]

I mostly agree with your overall sentiment, but with this section you lose me. It's what ends up being the problem....you like pocket knives and multitools but nothing else so you're ok with applying the government rationale you decry to those things that you don't care about, such as guns and other "weapons". The vast majority of people with legal guns don't abuse them either. Punish and regulate behavior, not the objects themselves or harmless legal behavior with said objects.

It's probably the continual and ongoing indoctrination and grubberment propaganda that makes my uncomfortable with guns.
But as you say, "It ain't the tool, it's the fool weikding it"

Sorry if I have offended, it's unintentional.

[Valkie]

While I personally believe civilians should be free to purchase and wear body armor if desired, I think the argument in favor of these laws boils down to the fact that bad guys wearing body armor are harder for good guys to kill than bad guys not wearing body armor.

The way it was explained to me is.

You only wear body armorial if you intend to commit a crime.
That's why John Howard the coward wore it when addressing the gun lobby.
He was a corrupt, horrid little lying politician.
It was howard the cowards policy the drove the last nail into the coffin of gun ownership in Australia.

[SteveC]

The way it was explained to me is.

You only wear body armorial if you intend to commit a crime.
That's why John Howard the coward wore it when addressing the gun lobby.
He was a corrupt, horrid little lying politician.
It was howard the cowards policy the drove the last nail into the coffin of gun ownership in Australia.

We have allowed this discussion to go on so far as everyone has been pretty good about not getting too political. This comment could be the last nail in this thread if you continue to inject politics.


Last warning

[ThisAlarm7]

It's probably the continual and ongoing indoctrination and grubberment propaganda that makes my uncomfortable with guns.
But as you say, "It ain't the tool, it's the fool weikding it"

Sorry if I have offended, it's unintentional.

No offense, we're good here my friend. I'm firmly in your corner on the knife and multitool thing and can only hope the legal environment there improves. 

[Poncho65]

I know we rarely have to moderate things but that last post (after being warned) by Valkie (and ThisAlarm7 because he had quoted part of that post) was passing the line to much and is now gone 

This is a thread about knife laws not guns. (Plenty of people on both sides of that argument and we will leave it be at that) We need to keep it in a friendly tone, leaving our personal feelings and politics completely out of the thread or it will be locked.

Sorry to have to be harsh but we have had more than a couple of posts to keep this thread on topic